EPT
ESL Masters Summer - Regionals - Page 5
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Kashim
Poland1225 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33592 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
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Philippe
354 Posts
On May 21 2023 15:24 Azzur wrote: Very BM by Reynor in Game3 - and I also wonder if it was justifiable as an auto-loss for that game - there could've been something in the rules about distracting or intimidating opponents. Considering how much was on the line - it was an auto-seed for 2023 Masters Summer it is extremely disrespectful. BM but not DQ-level, otherwise at least publicly, Spirit would have directly raised the matter to the ESL referee (behind closed doors, who knows). On the contrary, provided the rules do not currently forbid it, given the stakes, not doing what he did would be the stupid thing to do. Plus if that contributed to possibly not playing to his best during the remainder of the series, he punished himself more than anything else. Morals don't always pay bills, cold hard cash does. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
On May 21 2023 15:33 Philippe wrote: BM but not DQ-level, otherwise at least publicly, Spirit would have directly raised the matter to the ESL referee (behind closed doors, who knows). On the contrary, provided the rules do not currently forbid it, given the stakes, not doing what he did would be the stupid thing to do. Plus if that contributed to possibly not playing to his best during the remainder of the series, he punished himself more than anything else. Morals don't always pay bills, cold hard cash does. How do you know it's not DQ level? Have a look at the ESL rules here: https://play.eslgaming.com/starcraft/masters/sc2/masters/esl-masters-summer-2023-playoffs-asia/rules/. There are rules that prevent unsporting behaviour such as intimidating your opponent. I believe Spirit would've had a reasonable case to argue for a forfeit (at least game3 forfeit) on the basis of what happened. I reckon it could've been an ugly situation if Spirit had lost the series and complained about Reynor's BM. ESL was lucky that Spirit won that series - I believe the referee should've intervened to stop the situation that occurred and potentially even forfeited game3. | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On May 21 2023 15:44 Azzur wrote: How do you know it's not DQ level? Have a look at the ESL rules here: https://play.eslgaming.com/starcraft/masters/sc2/masters/esl-masters-summer-2023-playoffs-asia/rules/. There are rules that prevent unsporting behaviour such as intimidating your opponent. I believe Spirit would've had a reasonable case to argue for a forfeit (at least game3 forfeit) on the basis of what happened. Reading the said paragraph, unless there is a repeat behaviour during the whole series (or even in the past), there's likely not enough matter to ask for a DQ. Based on that, I can see your argument (and Reynor certainly didn't need to throw the odd bomb) but it is not a Naniwa-level type of crap. Mostly you, me and Reynor not having the same threshold of morality. Agreeing to disagree, then. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
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tigera6
3483 Posts
On May 21 2023 16:12 SmoKim wrote: What happened in g3 between Reynor and Spirit? 75 minutes game, with about the last 30-40 minutes having both army sitting across the screen and doesnt fight into each other, just sniping stuff here and there. Reynor then putting down some banter chat in game and Spirit reply, thats all. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On May 21 2023 18:11 tigera6 wrote: 75 minutes game, with about the last 30-40 minutes having both army sitting across the screen and doesnt fight into each other, just sniping stuff here and there. Reynor then putting down some banter chat in game and Spirit reply, thats all. more specificially Reynor complained about Spirit's passive playstyle (While the one time Spirit had enough and went for it he lost a huge part of his army to mass fungal, so not really his fault). And before he gged he also typed a (very likely given the context) sarcastic "congrats". Not really great sportsmanship imo considering Spirit was close to his career-best result but not DQ-worthy imo | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
At the end of the day Reynor's comments were BM, but a bit of banter is fine for the scene as long as it doesn't cross a line. Marinelord's "tooled" comment was similarly if not more BM, but even that led to some good memes. Some esports go way too far in tolerating BM/general toxicity, but SC2 is at a fine place in that regard. | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On May 21 2023 19:47 dysenterymd wrote: I'd be curious how different what Reynor said is from the banter that normally happens in the lobby between games, which we as viewers rarely see unless casters call attention to it. At the end of the day Reynor's comments were BM, but a bit of banter is fine for the scene as long as it doesn't cross a line. Marinelord's "tooled" comment was similarly if not more BM, but even that led to some good memes. While different in the sense it is not part of the EPT circuit, there was a case during World Team League weeks ago. The similarity is some user thinking that level of Bad Mannering is worth a DQ, when it has been ruled in another way (or non-ruled, yesterday). In Reynor's case, BM but not reaching the DQ threshold, even Spirit was low key replying to the banter, which should indicate, no for Storming the Teacup. EDIT : Forgot the MarineLord meme. How I laughed reading the tweet. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On May 21 2023 19:52 Philippe wrote: While different in the sense it is not part of the EPT circuit, there was a case during World Team League weeks ago. The similarity is some user thinking that level of Bad Mannering is worth a DQ, when it has been ruled in another way (or non-ruled, yesterday). In Reynor's case, BM but not reaching the DQ threshold, even Spirit was low key replying to the banter, which should indicate, no for Storming the Teacup. EDIT : Forgot the MarineLord meme. How I laughed reading the tweet. What was the WTL incident? | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On May 21 2023 19:57 Charoisaur wrote: What was the WTL incident? https://tl.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/609997-wtl-summer-full-teams-list-schedule-system The short version is aggressive bantering in the chinese forums by a representative of team ABYDOS (ex-NV) and one from Starlight Twinkle. That degenerated to a point that a pointed comment was made about the supposedly dubious contracts from a team (Mystery Gaming) who played during the qualifiers of the event. Afterwards when you know how the Chinese forums can sometimes be (cf, sometimes that would make the odd rancid Twitch chat look like paradise in comparison), etc etc. Skipping the details because no need to repeat it unless you really want all the details from the WTL organisers Fast-forward you have a TL user who was pushing for Abydos to get banned from the event because the behaviour of the representative. Not long after, WTL organizers decided to keep said team on because it didn't involve the roster as a whole, and misunderstandings (there were plenty during the matter) can happen, the only thing that happened is the Abydos representative took a backseat from duties. Regardless of how the organizer ruled it, back to the TL user, who judged good to still push the matter and even created a topic and a public poll. When some pointed to the user that should stop, nope, more and more noise until an admin likely had to step up and close (or delete ?) the topic down. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On May 21 2023 20:21 Philippe wrote: https://tl.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/609997-wtl-summer-full-teams-list-schedule-system The short version is aggressive bantering in the chinese forums by a representative of team ABYDOS (ex-NV) and one from Starlight Twinkle. That degenerated to a point that a pointed comment was made about the supposedly dubious contracts from a team (Mystery Gaming) who played during the qualifiers of the event. Afterwards when you know how the Chinese forums can sometimes be (cf, sometimes that would make the odd rancid Twitch chat look like paradise in comparison), etc etc. Skipping the details because no need to repeat it unless you really want all the details from the WTL organisers Fast-forward you have a TL user who was pushing for Abydos to get banned from the event because the behaviour of the representative. Not long after, WTL organizers decided to keep said team on because it didn't involve the roster as a whole, and misunderstandings (there were plenty during the matter) can happen, the only thing that happened is the Abydos representative took a backseat from duties. Regardless of how the organizer ruled it, back to the TL user, who judged good to still push the matter and even created a topic and a public poll. When some pointed to the user that should stop, nope, more and more noise until an admin likely had to step up and close (or delete ?) the topic down. Thanks | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12449 Posts
My favourite fact about Reynor is that right after there was discourse on TL about whether zergs were winning because their race was strong or because the best players just happened to pick zerg, he switched to protoss for six months to show us all that it was just his skill talking, got zero good results and quietly went back to zerg. Good times. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On May 22 2023 00:07 Nebuchad wrote: Reynor also demanded a pause after game 2 as a troll because Spirit often does that and he wanted to mock him. Just not a very good person I'm afraid. My favourite fact about Reynor is that right after there was discourse on TL about whether zergs were winning because their race was strong or because the best players just happened to pick zerg, he switched to protoss for six months to show us all that it was just his skill talking, got zero good results and quietly went back to zerg. Good times. Reynor said in chat after he and Piotr (spirit) are very good friemds and would know it was bantering, I trust that over us random people on the internet who don't know any context. Almost nothing in that second paragraph is accurate. He didn't *switch* to toss, at most for a few months switched between zvz and PvZ, or did random/toss in the weeklies. He didn't do it because of anything people on TL said but because he likes having fun and it was a pretty awesome thing to do. He was actually quite good and is arguably the best performing off race player in history, for a while people thought he had top 3 pvz. Of course he never won major tournaments with it but that was not his goal and that would be an absolutely insane accomplishment. And he still regularly plays toss in weeklies or other smaller tournaments. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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