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Balance whining will be moderated aggressively
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On February 13 2023 05:53 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:49 tigera6 wrote:
If you just stack up accomplishment, then its probably going to be Maru if he keep winning 2-3 more GSL in the coming years. But this IEM leave a bad taste in my mouth, its worse than the time he lost to sOs in Blizzcon because of how close he was to win it all. Even that is debatable because competition in Code S is a lot shallower and Rogue is now out of play. This defeat makes me respect Rogue's mental fortitude even more, ex post. He might be the strongest of SCII GOAT contenders outside of Starcraft too, can imagine him being a great poker champion for instance.
Depending on how the new season goes, GSL might get more foreigner coming to play, so that should bring up the level of gameplay, along with more people return from military like Stats and TY, although we still need to see what kind of shape they are in post-service.
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On February 13 2023 05:53 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:49 tigera6 wrote:
If you just stack up accomplishment, then its probably going to be Maru if he keep winning 2-3 more GSL in the coming years. But this IEM leave a bad taste in my mouth, its worse than the time he lost to sOs in Blizzcon because of how close he was to win it all. Even that is debatable because competition in Code S is a lot shallower and Rogue is now out of play. This defeat makes me respect Rogue's mental fortitude even more, ex post. He might be the strongest of SCII GOAT contenders outside of Starcraft too, can imagine him being a great poker champion for instance.
This logic should definitely put Maru at #1 because Rogue won all his GSLs in a weak competitive era and Maru won 2 Starleagues during the Kespa era. You really shouldn't go down the road of factoring in the strength of the era they won tournaments in if you're a Rogue (or Serral) fan
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On February 13 2023 05:55 Captain Peabody wrote:
I still can't really believe it. what a run.
Normal Man victory
grats to TIME/Oliveira!
I keep refreshing this thread even though I've got nothing left to say, because I don't want to acknowledge it's done.
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On February 13 2023 05:43 swarminfestor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:38 Poopi wrote:On February 13 2023 05:37 Cricketer12 wrote:On February 13 2023 05:34 Sent. wrote:On February 13 2023 05:32 tigera6 wrote:On February 13 2023 05:31 Sent. wrote:
The GOAT debate will never be decided looking at how things are in this IEM, now its Rogue to me. The guy just know how to win the big ones. Rogue is my top 3 together with Maru and Serral. Each has their own, uncomparable reasons to call them greatest. You're missing Mvp 1) Maru 2) Rogue 3) INno 4) Serral 5) Mvp Zest or sOs should be included too as representative of Protoss player, I guess. Zest has many premier championships but never seriously discussed as a contender.
That's because Zest also unfortunately has some egregiously bad moments, like his many failed cannon rushes. Zest either looks like the greatest player of all time or 3 diamond leaguers in a trench coat
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I can't believe you all are arguing over who is the GOAT right now when you should be spending your energy bowing to your new StarCraft god, Oliveira.
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On February 13 2023 05:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:53 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On February 13 2023 05:49 tigera6 wrote:
If you just stack up accomplishment, then its probably going to be Maru if he keep winning 2-3 more GSL in the coming years. But this IEM leave a bad taste in my mouth, its worse than the time he lost to sOs in Blizzcon because of how close he was to win it all. Even that is debatable because competition in Code S is a lot shallower and Rogue is now out of play. This defeat makes me respect Rogue's mental fortitude even more, ex post. He might be the strongest of SCII GOAT contenders outside of Starcraft too, can imagine him being a great poker champion for instance. This logic should definitely put Maru at #1 because Rogue won all his GSLs in a weak competitive era and Maru won 2 Starleagues during the Kespa era. You really shouldn't go down the road of factoring in the strength of the era they won tournaments in if you're a Rogue (or Serral) fan
Bruv, I'm a Starcraft fan. We are not the same.
Replays have been released at esl.gg by the way.
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On February 13 2023 05:52 BluemoonSC wrote:my point is that chinese streaming numbers are largely not real
Those are not streaming numbers. They are "hotness indexes" that the streaming platforms assign to streamers. They are subject to platform policies (e.g. completing some quests will earn you an extra few hundred points). They determine which streamers will be put on the homepage and are relatively reflective of the number of viewers but can't be taken literally. Given the time in China (4 a.m.), I'd say the total viewer number probably should be under 100K.
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On February 13 2023 06:00 Blargh wrote:
I can't believe you all are arguing over who is the GOAT right now when you should be spending your energy bowing to your new StarCraft god, Oliveira.
Yeah agreed. This GOAT discussion..... like what do we win if we get it right. How to confirm it? Why is it happening?
go TIME!
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On February 13 2023 06:00 Blargh wrote:
I can't believe you all are arguing over who is the GOAT right now when you should be spending your energy bowing to your new StarCraft god, Oliveira.
Oh we ALL do, dont worry.
But sadly, this tournament was being used as another measure stick toward GOAT debate, but in the end it did nothing, so we are salty, at least I am.
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On February 13 2023 05:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:55 Captain Peabody wrote:
I still can't really believe it. what a run.
Normal Man victory
grats to TIME/Oliveira! I keep refreshing this thread even though I've got nothing left to say, because I don't want to acknowledge it's done.
yeah I know right, I was in a bad mood today and now I'm through the roof. just unreal.
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On February 13 2023 06:03 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 13 2023 05:55 Captain Peabody wrote:
I still can't really believe it. what a run.
Normal Man victory
grats to TIME/Oliveira! I keep refreshing this thread even though I've got nothing left to say, because I don't want to acknowledge it's done. yeah I know right, I was in a bad mood today and now I'm through the roof. just unreal.
Like you know it's a crazy moment when even the casters and analyzers at the desk have nothing to say except how amazing it is and keep repeating themselves
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On February 13 2023 06:01 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 06:00 Blargh wrote:
I can't believe you all are arguing over who is the GOAT right now when you should be spending your energy bowing to your new StarCraft god, Oliveira. Yeah agreed. This GOAT discussion..... like what do we win if we get it right. How to confirm it? Why is it happening? go TIME!
Everyone was geared up to have another mud slinging match with Maru in the finals but he choked outside of Korea again  People still needed to unload their GOAT arguments they've had saved up all day though
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On February 13 2023 05:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:55 Captain Peabody wrote:
I still can't really believe it. what a run.
Normal Man victory
grats to TIME/Oliveira! I keep refreshing this thread even though I've got nothing left to say, because I don't want to acknowledge it's done.
lol same here
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United States33680 Posts
On February 13 2023 06:05 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 06:01 RogerChillingworth wrote:On February 13 2023 06:00 Blargh wrote:
I can't believe you all are arguing over who is the GOAT right now when you should be spending your energy bowing to your new StarCraft god, Oliveira. Yeah agreed. This GOAT discussion..... like what do we win if we get it right. How to confirm it? Why is it happening? go TIME! Everyone was geared up to have another mud slinging match with Maru in the finals but he choked outside of Korea again People still needed to unload their GOAT arguments they've had saved up all day though
somewhere in a guard tower near the North Korean border, Rogue felt the bone-chilling cold interrupted by a wave of warmth as he realized his GOAT title is safe 
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On February 13 2023 06:05 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 06:01 RogerChillingworth wrote:On February 13 2023 06:00 Blargh wrote:
I can't believe you all are arguing over who is the GOAT right now when you should be spending your energy bowing to your new StarCraft god, Oliveira. Yeah agreed. This GOAT discussion..... like what do we win if we get it right. How to confirm it? Why is it happening? go TIME! Everyone was geared up to have another mud slinging match with Maru in the finals but he choked outside of Korea again People still needed to unload their GOAT arguments they've had saved up all day though
Pffff, that just detracts from the clutch play Oliveira showed. He went through Reynor and herO as well, and he just looked incredibly solid. The micro of his ghosts in the face of a billion banelings, the scv pull to break herO, and the Raven snipe were all just incredibly good plays. Today, Oliveira was the best player in the world.
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Easily one of the most unexpected tournament results ever.. wow.. Big congratulations to the winner.
GGs WP!
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On February 13 2023 05:34 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 05:32 tigera6 wrote:On February 13 2023 05:31 Sent. wrote:
The GOAT debate will never be decided looking at how things are in this IEM, now its Rogue to me. The guy just know how to win the big ones. Rogue is my top 3 together with Maru and Serral. Each has their own, uncomparable reasons to call them greatest.
This is actually the most correct answer. Got called-in for work and missed the finals, but holy shit Time pulled it off. His reaction and story pretty much epitomizes everything great about sports.
If Maru had won today, I think he would have locked the Goat debate away for most people, but I can't think of a bigger upset or more unexpected champion in the history of SC2 for a tournament as meaningful as Katowice. And Maru has more or less been invincible in the matchup, with the highest TvT win-rate in history. That stuff matters in every other sport, unfortunately.
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What bother the F out of me about this loss, was how he lost it. I didnt mind the first 2 games, you want to be over-aggressive then you win some and you lose some, its fine. I dont even mind the last game, it was Time playing better than him on that map. But game 3 and 4 were literal throwaway like he doesnt give a damn about strategy. Like how can you treat the Wolrd Championship match like an effffing Bo3 in the GSL or something, either you dont care or you just too dull to notice it. And nobody around to tell him it was bad?
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And someone thought he wasn't a good enough teammate for Serral in the 2v2 tournament!
What a boss run, this was probably the most emotionally 'disparate' tournament I feel I've ever watched, like there was a legitimate reason to be happy every winner won but sad/disappointed for whoever lost in every playoff match.
I don't know where the name change came from, but I'm telling myself Oliveira is a superior Moto GP fan (Moto GP > F1) and relates to the sole Portugese rider on the grid with how he represents China at these tournaments.
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On February 13 2023 06:20 tigera6 wrote:
What bother the F out of me about this loss, was how he lost it. I didnt mind the first 2 games, you want to be over-aggressive then you win some and you lose some, its fine. I dont even mind the last game, it was Time playing better than him on that map. But game 3 and 4 were literal throwaway like he doesnt give a damn about strategy. Like how can you treat the Wolrd Championship match like an effffing Bo3 in the GSL or something, either you dont care or you just too dull to notice it. And nobody around to tell him it was bad?
Even the last game he had a few very questionable move like bumrushing tanks while not priorizing viking production dropping 7 tanks unprotected next to the base that got killed by a simple double drop, sieging a side-planetary with all his tanks and leaving the middle wide open... This was not the Maru TvT I know
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EPT
