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On February 09 2023 21:02 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 20:59 Argonauta wrote:On February 09 2023 20:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
Cure 100% wins that game on the previous patch or on the previous map pool. Dark only won because of both factors being in play. Yeah you can see how most of the snipes never got cast cause they were at the new limit and Dark snipped back, but ghosts cannot get closer cause fungal, plus BLs are faster now. Even with those changes Cure still had such strong positional play that Dark needed to grind him down and take 2 of his bases which is impossible for Cure to really do anything about when using late game Mech/Ghost. On a map that giant, if Zerg enters the late game on even footing or even ahead of Terran, Terran's going to have to be EVEN more efficient than pre patch to win, and with the nerfs to Terran late game/buffs to Zerg late game, I don't see how that efficiency is possible. It falls to the Terran elite to raise the ceiling of what is possible in the game yet again.
I feel like they just don't want this Ghost exhaust style to be a thing, and just want terran to be a mid-game race again as it used to be for a long period
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On February 09 2023 21:09 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 21:02 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 09 2023 20:59 Argonauta wrote:On February 09 2023 20:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
Cure 100% wins that game on the previous patch or on the previous map pool. Dark only won because of both factors being in play. Yeah you can see how most of the snipes never got cast cause they were at the new limit and Dark snipped back, but ghosts cannot get closer cause fungal, plus BLs are faster now. Even with those changes Cure still had such strong positional play that Dark needed to grind him down and take 2 of his bases which is impossible for Cure to really do anything about when using late game Mech/Ghost. On a map that giant, if Zerg enters the late game on even footing or even ahead of Terran, Terran's going to have to be EVEN more efficient than pre patch to win, and with the nerfs to Terran late game/buffs to Zerg late game, I don't see how that efficiency is possible. It falls to the Terran elite to raise the ceiling of what is possible in the game yet again. I feel like they just don't want this Ghost exhaust style to be a thing, and just want terran to be a mid-game race again as it used to be for a long period
Yeah, except what they did havent ended in what they want at all, Zerg just cant die in mid-game unless to an all-in, or hidden tech. If neither player mess up, it will end up in lategame most of the time.
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France12888 Posts
Well well well, Clem is already in trouble. Each map counts so even if he ends up beating RagnaroK and Neeb, being down 0-3 already is catastrophic
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On February 09 2023 20:37 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 20:35 Wolf wrote:
Valdes and I losing it at the moment looking at Dark A rare Wolf sighting and of course it would be to comment on a pro's current style. rofl.
lmao
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On February 09 2023 19:49 Poopi wrote:
The match order is perfect for Clem, he gets the weakest opponents first and should get a good momentum starting today instead of playing Dark right away and potentially lose confidence.
uh oh
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On February 09 2023 21:32 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 19:49 Poopi wrote:
The match order is perfect for Clem, he gets the weakest opponents first and should get a good momentum starting today instead of playing Dark right away and potentially lose confidence. uh oh
It was a wrong statement too from the start. Neeb is the weakest player in this group by a significant amount. After that it's arguable who is weakest between TIME, Ragnarok and Clem.
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Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality.
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big fan of RagnaGod mechanical keyboard
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WTF rofl. Ragnarok went from looking great, to be it being great back and forth to Ragnarok just completely throwing.
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On February 09 2023 21:09 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 21:02 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 09 2023 20:59 Argonauta wrote:On February 09 2023 20:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
Cure 100% wins that game on the previous patch or on the previous map pool. Dark only won because of both factors being in play. Yeah you can see how most of the snipes never got cast cause they were at the new limit and Dark snipped back, but ghosts cannot get closer cause fungal, plus BLs are faster now. Even with those changes Cure still had such strong positional play that Dark needed to grind him down and take 2 of his bases which is impossible for Cure to really do anything about when using late game Mech/Ghost. On a map that giant, if Zerg enters the late game on even footing or even ahead of Terran, Terran's going to have to be EVEN more efficient than pre patch to win, and with the nerfs to Terran late game/buffs to Zerg late game, I don't see how that efficiency is possible. It falls to the Terran elite to raise the ceiling of what is possible in the game yet again. I feel like they just don't want this Ghost exhaust style to be a thing, and just want terran to be a mid-game race again as it used to be for a long period
Terran hasn't been a mid game race since the +5 baneling hp killed the 3/3 timing.
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On February 09 2023 21:37 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 21:32 Die4Ever wrote:On February 09 2023 19:49 Poopi wrote:
The match order is perfect for Clem, he gets the weakest opponents first and should get a good momentum starting today instead of playing Dark right away and potentially lose confidence. uh oh It was a wrong statement too from the start. Neeb is the weakest player in this group by a significant amount. After that it's arguable who is weakest between TIME, Ragnarok and Clem.
Not to mention, TvT is his worst matchup, whereas it's probably TIME's best.
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United States33423 Posts
Dark seems pretty comfortable playing late-game split on huge maps
If Reynor and Serral play the same styles imma be afraid this is just the 2019 map pool again
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On February 09 2023 21:39 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality.
You mean how he wiggled his way to the GSL finals only to get absolutely demolished by Maru?
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On February 09 2023 21:56 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 21:39 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality. You mean how he wiggled his way to the GSL finals only to get absolutely demolished by Maru?
I never said he was a GSL Code S Finalist quality, more like a consistent Ro16 quality player, which is good enough for being as good as the best Europe has to offer.
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Clem's standard TvZ midgame is a thing of beauty, no matter how much I criticize the kid for his TvT or his late game play, I can't take that away from him.
Fun series. Very close. If these two played a Bo7 I'm sure it would go to 7 games.
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On February 09 2023 21:59 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 21:56 Creager wrote:On February 09 2023 21:39 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality. You mean how he wiggled his way to the GSL finals only to get absolutely demolished by Maru? I never said he was a GSL Code S Finalist quality, more like a consistent Ro16 quality player, which is good enough for being as good as the best Europe has to offer.
Well apparently not.
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On February 09 2023 22:01 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 21:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 09 2023 21:56 Creager wrote:On February 09 2023 21:39 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality. You mean how he wiggled his way to the GSL finals only to get absolutely demolished by Maru? I never said he was a GSL Code S Finalist quality, more like a consistent Ro16 quality player, which is good enough for being as good as the best Europe has to offer. Well apparently not.
Apparently yes. That series was SUPER close.
Clem was a breath away from losing Game 2. He barely won that, he only convincingly won Game 3, and that was after convincingly losing game 1.
If Clem is going to be played that close in his best match up to the 3rd or 4th best Korean Zerg in the tournament I don't like his chances for going very far overall.
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On February 09 2023 22:03 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 22:01 Creager wrote:On February 09 2023 21:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 09 2023 21:56 Creager wrote:On February 09 2023 21:39 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality. You mean how he wiggled his way to the GSL finals only to get absolutely demolished by Maru? I never said he was a GSL Code S Finalist quality, more like a consistent Ro16 quality player, which is good enough for being as good as the best Europe has to offer. Well apparently not. Apparently yes. That series was SUPER close. Clem was a breath away from losing Game 2. He barely won that, he only convincingly won Game 3, and that was after convincingly losing game 1. If Clem is going to be played that close in his best match up to the 3rd or 4th best Korean Zerg in the tournament I don't like his chances for going very far overall.
I mean calling Ragnarok 3rd or 4th best Korean Zerg tells it's own story already, while that might be actually true Ragnarok is just not a top tier player in my personal bias and this speaks for the ever-declining quality of Korean pros rather than foreigners closing the gap.
Tbh I was more disappointed with Clems perfomance than impressed with Ragnarok's in this series.
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On February 09 2023 22:08 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2023 22:03 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 09 2023 22:01 Creager wrote:On February 09 2023 21:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 09 2023 21:56 Creager wrote:On February 09 2023 21:39 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ragnarok is flexing his Code S quality. You mean how he wiggled his way to the GSL finals only to get absolutely demolished by Maru? I never said he was a GSL Code S Finalist quality, more like a consistent Ro16 quality player, which is good enough for being as good as the best Europe has to offer. Well apparently not. Apparently yes. That series was SUPER close. Clem was a breath away from losing Game 2. He barely won that, he only convincingly won Game 3, and that was after convincingly losing game 1. If Clem is going to be played that close in his best match up to the 3rd or 4th best Korean Zerg in the tournament I don't like his chances for going very far overall. I mean calling Ragnarok 3rd or 4th best Korean Zerg tells it's own story already, while that might be actually true Ragnarok is just not a top tier player in my personal bias and this speaks for the ever-declining quality of Korean pros rather than foreigners closing the gap. .
We agree there. I've learned to accept that the Korean SC2 scene is dying it has maybe 2 years left tops. When Maru leaves to the military it will probably die with him as much as it's going to break my heart to see it go.
As for this series, both players played at about the level I expected of them. Ragnarok is inconsistent and Clem has weaknesses that his fans don't like to talk about.
Neither of them are real players for the championship in this tournament, it's just going to be interesting who gets farther since I view them at about the same level.
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crushing underdog hopes with roaches is a very dark thing to do
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EPT
