|
United States33559 Posts
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/homestorycup/hsc22banner.jpg)
Schedule (Dec 15-17 start time is 11:30 GMT (+00:00); Dec 18 is 10:30 GMT (+00:00))- Dec 15:
RO32 Groups A & B
- Dec 16:
RO32 Groups C & D
- Dec 17:
Double elimination playoffs
- Dec 18:
Double elimination playoffs Prize money: $26,000 total, $7,000 for first place EPT points: 2540 points total, 500 points for first place (standings) English Streams: TakeTV + RotterdaM
|
|
|
Switching to bo2 for the group stage was a great decision, hopefully we won't have (as many) ridiculously long days!
|
On December 15 2022 22:06 dysenterymd wrote: Switching to bo2 for the group stage was a great decision, hopefully we won't have (as many) ridiculously long days! I don't hate bo2 for groups, it obviously allows you to get through the large groups more quickly, but also makes the scheduling way more predictable because you don't have to factor in the chance of all clean sweeps or all full sets
and if 2 players go 1-1 and then face again later in the tournament that's kinda fun
|
As long as Harstem makes it out I’ll be happy
|
Is Gerald the new Hurricane?
|
The studio setup is very nice looking. Hoping for Serral to get the H5C.
|
It's rather unfortunate that we only get 7 Koreans here and then 3 are put into the group with Serral...
|
United States33559 Posts
Kelazhur needs to place top 12 or higher to surpass Cham in the LATAM standings now. You never know until it's over, but it's looking like Cham will be going to Katowice for now?
|
Is this played on the patch? What about Katowice?
|
On December 16 2022 14:09 angry_maia wrote: Is this played on the patch? What about Katowice?
The new patch is not used
|
So what the 1st tie-breaker in liquidpedia mean "Match wins amassed between the tied participants ('Mini-League')"? Actually what is a tie in final group ranking? Same map score and same match win?
|
liquipedia is showing the group standings by series wins. on reddit someone said map difference comes first who's right? because it changes who qualified between cure and skillous
|
On December 17 2022 04:42 mark_lenders wrote: liquipedia is showing the group standings by series wins. on reddit someone said map difference comes first who's right? because it changes who qualified between cure and skillous Cure and Skillous got the same map difference and map won, but the question then is it down to head-to-head first (which Cure win) or series score (which Skillous won). Apparently thats the way it is.
|
So is group B wrong then? Liquipedia shows Cham ahead of Nightmare with a worse nap score
|
Astrea vs Showtime / Solar vs Elazer Clem vs Zoun / Gerald vs Scarlett Reynor vs GuMiho / Heromarine vs Lambo (some Focus set here too for German audience) Serral vs ByuN / Spirit vs Skillous
LB Round 2 Match X+Y LB Round 2 Match X+Y LB Round 3 Match X+Y
End
|
On December 17 2022 16:59 mark_lenders wrote: So is group B wrong then? Liquipedia shows Cham ahead of Nightmare with a worse nap score
Thats right, Liquidpedia ranking is wrong, they assume the match score is ahead of map score. If you check the VOD on TakeTV stream, they showed that Nightmare is ahead of Charm in the final group B ranking. Not that it matter much here since both of them did not make it to the next round.
|
Canada8989 Posts
Clem is so good at tvp, his macro compleatly grinded Zoun down.
|
On December 17 2022 23:24 Nakajin wrote: Clem is so good at tvp, his macro compleatly grinded Zoun down. Micro is good, too, he's sniped so many disruptors and Colossi this series. It does feel like Zoun is playing kind of wasteful, though, very "Korean macro Protoss."
|
United States33559 Posts
On December 17 2022 23:45 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2022 23:24 Nakajin wrote: Clem is so good at tvp, his macro compleatly grinded Zoun down. Micro is good, too, he's sniped so many disruptors and Colossi this series. It does feel like Zoun is playing kind of wasteful, though, very "Korean macro Protoss."
For the alleged Disruptor guy, Zoun sure does lose a lot of Disruptors
|
Ruptor is about the hit, not the Ruptor lost.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On December 17 2022 23:45 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2022 23:24 Nakajin wrote: Clem is so good at tvp, his macro compleatly grinded Zoun down. Micro is good, too, he's sniped so many disruptors and Colossi this series. It does feel like Zoun is playing kind of wasteful, though, very "Korean macro Protoss."
Well I'll be damned, AlphaX ftw. Clem took this one hard too it seems like.
|
The most glaring thing was the Libs count, Clem was able to get up to 10-12 Libs with range in the first 2 game and compact and grind Zoun army into dust. In the later game, Zoun was trading non-stop and took out the Libs before they reach that critical mass, and harass Clem econ enough that he couldnt make lots of Libs.
|
Haha WP by Neku and Elazer. That was cool.
|
widow mines do too much friendly fire damage lol, they should cut it in half
|
On December 18 2022 02:54 Die4Ever wrote: widow mines do too much friendly fire damage lol, they should cut it in half
If they did that the ghost change would actually be somewhat acceptable. If the ghost change was live those 2 ovies get away which would be dumb.
|
France12909 Posts
ByuN toying with his food, impressive play
|
On December 18 2022 03:02 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 02:54 Die4Ever wrote: widow mines do too much friendly fire damage lol, they should cut it in half If they did that the ghost change would actually be somewhat acceptable. If the ghost change was live those 2 ovies get away which would be dumb. and why are burrowed widow mines so much more easily visible than burrow-moving infestors lol
|
I want to be happy for Byun but I'm afraid if he wins this it will make Blizzard more likely to move forward with the patch as is before IEM.
|
Byun screwed up the 2 base all-in, he splited the army and his position wasnt great enough. Bunny would do much better in the same position.
|
France12909 Posts
ByuN on fire, impressive series! Zoun even beat Clem, KR players results are better than usual for HSC, they kept the momentum from Atlanta it feels like
|
On December 18 2022 03:59 Poopi wrote: ByuN on fire, impressive series! Zoun even beat Clem, KR players results are better than usual for HSC, they kept the momentum from Atlanta it feels like And thats without Maru-herO-Dark-Bunny
|
I don't follow SC2 really because I'm BW boy but man that guy ByuN is something else... Been a fan since he won his GSL and Global finals same year. Funny after seeing his reaction that he matched vs. Serral, that he went on and knocked him out to losers bracket. Let's go One Man Army!
|
Was that Scarlett ceiling at this point in time? Would she ever gotten back to winning global tournament again? I mean she was in good position in several game but just couldnt make the right adjustment in-game to kill the opponent. The caster was pointing on how she got a huge bank but ignored the tech, or missing lavar....
|
Jesus, it's the third day of HSC and this thread is at page 2. Happy for Showtime, finally a good run again.
|
Kinda feels like the Zergs stopped practicing when the patch was announced to make it more likely to go through.
|
On December 18 2022 06:35 virpi wrote: Jesus, it's the third day of HSC and this thread is at page 2. Happy for Showtime, finally a good run again. Yeah, a little sad. The round robins weren't too interesting, but today had some solid series.
|
oh come on, they're showing Serral again? I wanted to see Gumiho vs Clem
|
Canada8989 Posts
I feel like Showtime really should have put two and two togheter after he probe scouted.
|
lol Gumi vs Clem is still on game 1
|
Banelings are the counter to archons
|
super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond
|
On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face
|
On December 18 2022 08:35 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face
I mean, I don't know about you, but if I didn't even RESPOND to my boss about a work opportunity they knew I didn't want to do I'd be pretty fucked
|
On December 18 2022 08:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 08:35 Die4Ever wrote:On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face I mean, I don't know about you, but if I didn't even RESPOND to my boss about a work opportunity they knew I didn't want to do I'd be pretty fucked haha true
|
wish we had seen that crazy Gumiho vs Clem game lol
|
On December 18 2022 08:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 08:35 Die4Ever wrote:On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face I mean, I don't know about you, but if I didn't even RESPOND to my boss about a work opportunity they knew I didn't want to do I'd be pretty fucked yeah idk what the deal is here... I'm not one to promote unwarranted rumors, but like what's his deal? Seems pretty suspicious to only want to compete online and not show up offline
anyways I'll stop with this, hope we get to see him soon
|
On December 18 2022 10:16 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 08:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:On December 18 2022 08:35 Die4Ever wrote:On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face I mean, I don't know about you, but if I didn't even RESPOND to my boss about a work opportunity they knew I didn't want to do I'd be pretty fucked yeah idk what the deal is here... I'm not one to promote unwarranted rumors, but like what's his deal? Seems pretty suspicious to only want to compete online and not show up offline anyways I'll stop with this, hope we get to see him soon
I’m okay with maxpax only competing online.
No need to appear offline just to “please” the haters.
Pretty sure there are lots of personal factors / reasons for his decision Which is pretty much none of our business
|
Zoun vs Serral is a great series so far, I love how fun and diverse PvZ has become
|
On December 18 2022 11:37 TossHeroes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 10:16 AzAlexZ wrote:On December 18 2022 08:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:On December 18 2022 08:35 Die4Ever wrote:On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face I mean, I don't know about you, but if I didn't even RESPOND to my boss about a work opportunity they knew I didn't want to do I'd be pretty fucked yeah idk what the deal is here... I'm not one to promote unwarranted rumors, but like what's his deal? Seems pretty suspicious to only want to compete online and not show up offline anyways I'll stop with this, hope we get to see him soon I’m okay with maxpax only competing online. No need to appear offline just to “please” the haters. Pretty sure there are lots of personal factors / reasons for his decision Which is pretty much none of our business yeah also IMO I would rather have a fun mystery in SC2 than another "normal" player
|
awesome game from Zoun, wow
|
Serral just wasn't in the Zoun
|
|
|
Wow, great play by Zoun. No 5peat for Serral, I'm sure he'll come back strong for Katowice though.
|
To be honest, Serral ZvP hasnt look as amazing as before, he lost games here and there to Protoss because he was too aggressive and not making the right read. But Zoun play solid and hit all the timing so kudos to him.
|
Wow Zoun. I'll need to go back and watch that series for sure.
|
On December 18 2022 10:16 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2022 08:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:On December 18 2022 08:35 Die4Ever wrote:On December 18 2022 08:34 chipmonklord17 wrote: super interesting to hear Psistorm offered to fund MaxPax a trip to GSL and he didn't even respond not that surprising, he doesn't seem to want to show his face I mean, I don't know about you, but if I didn't even RESPOND to my boss about a work opportunity they knew I didn't want to do I'd be pretty fucked yeah idk what the deal is here... I'm not one to promote unwarranted rumors, but like what's his deal? Seems pretty suspicious to only want to compete online and not show up offline anyways I'll stop with this, hope we get to see him soon
It's not proof of anything, but it certainly increases the chances that he is doing something that gives him an edge in online games. As long as a system can be abused, there will be people who abuse it.
|
Recall is a fun and fair ability.
|
On December 19 2022 01:36 Coffeeling wrote: Recall is a fun and fair ability.
Mad Serral/Clem fan? Protoss has won so many tournaments the past few years I'm sure they are broken.
|
upside screen seems like way too big of a handicap lol, just look at the supply!
|
Canada8989 Posts
On December 19 2022 02:27 Die4Ever wrote: upside screen seems like way too big of a handicap lol, just look at the supply!
One base mothership will turn it arround easy
|
France12909 Posts
Serral lost to ByuN and Zoun what? They really want that patch to go through?
|
Astrea keeping the NA dream alive!
|
France12909 Posts
ByuN destroying both Serral and Reynor, is it 2016 again?
|
On December 19 2022 04:01 Poopi wrote: ByuN destroying both Serral and Reynor, is it 2016 again?
Where was the destroying Part?
|
meh that game was over when the banelings hit the wall
|
On December 19 2022 04:03 BelethielQT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 04:01 Poopi wrote: ByuN destroying both Serral and Reynor, is it 2016 again?
Where was the destroying Part? and I must have missed the part in 2016 when ByuN was destroying Serral and Reynor
|
Byun was destroying them so hard that you didn't even hear about them at that time.
|
Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished.
|
France12909 Posts
It’s Reynor’s HSC to lose now that both Serral and Clem are eliminated! Hopefully Astrea or ByuN give him a run for his money
|
On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate
|
Canada8989 Posts
On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate
I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it.
|
A KR Terran, EU Zerg and NA Protoss as the last three players. A fitting final bracket.
|
On December 19 2022 05:05 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it. the people making money from SC2 esport certainly care about it
|
On December 19 2022 01:54 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 01:36 Coffeeling wrote: Recall is a fun and fair ability. Mad Serral/Clem fan? Protoss has won so many tournaments the past few years I'm sure they are broken.
Nah, just not a fan of Recall and never have been. Being able to do a full commit and just press undo for free is a disgusting play pattern, regardless of the power level of the faction.
Like in the game that prompted the comment, Terran is using a split high mobility army to try to attack on two sides. Toss is not playing a high mobility army in any way, and can just defend the first push with the full army and recall to delete the other strike force, and has that ability for free because ???
There's been more than one time that I've seen Toss forces get caught in brilliant pincers that'd lose T or Z the game then and there, and they just pressed undo because losing the game for a giant misplay is for bugs and humans.
It's a similar dynamic with Adepts, where big Adept forces can just issue threats without any real commitment on their part and those threats have to be treated seriously. Fucked up gameplay pattern. The power level of Adepts is fine, but the ensuing gameplay is less entertaining than with T or Z's traditional movement based dart in, dart out type pressure.
|
Holy sheeet Astrea actually made it to the finals niiice
|
France12909 Posts
Incredible run from Astrea, and that last game versus ByuN was highly entertaining!
|
I'm a simple man and enjoy watching people playing ling+muta with the yellow psi alien pieces.
|
Felt like Astrea had lots of missed opportunities that series, still an amazing run. Also first championship for Reynor in a while
|
On December 19 2022 05:05 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it.
I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think the issue is that the people balancing the game and organizing events for it want to believe that Serral is the best person to ever touch the game and acknowledging that Zerg has spent the last few years as the best race weakens his claim to that title dramatically. So rather than acknowledging that they just say Zerg is fine or even underpowered and Serral and the all other Zergs that have won events are just that much better than T/P players. Which leads to balance patches like this one.
|
On December 19 2022 08:14 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 05:05 Nakajin wrote:On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think the issue is that the people balancing the game and organizing events for it want to believe that Serral is the best person to ever touch the game and acknowledging that Zerg has spent the last few years weakens his claim to that title dramatically. So rather than acknowledging that they just say Zerg is fine or even underpowered and Serral and the all other Zergs that have won events are just that much better than T/P players. Which leads to balance patches like this one.
7/14 premier tournament wins from five different Zergs, and 13/28 finalists this year. And somehow this isn't enough--amazing.
|
Amazing tournament, as always! Congratulations to Reynor and many thanks to TakeTV.
They really succeeded in crafting a beautiful cozy winter atmosphere.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On December 19 2022 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 05:05 Nakajin wrote:On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it. the people making money from SC2 esport certainly care about it
But who's that in 2022 really? Obviously, you have the casters and the players but outside of that? There's Alex007 at ESL and maybe one or two persons around him, the rest of the production guys would work there anyway on other projects. Maybe management at ESL care a bit about SC2 numbers, but it's definitely just another contract amongst their long list of product. Then you have the GSL and the Afreeca TV staff and the WTL guys, but it's not them you are talking about. And we are left with...a couple of team managers (maybe) and the AlphaX guys and that's it?
And finally Blizzard of course, after all, they are the ones pumping money in the scene. Well, they haven't put out a SC2 product in half a decade, most if not all of the RTS dev team is out, and they just did their first patch in years that was essentially crowd sourced to the community. It's a bit silly to imagine that anyone working there has the game knowledge or is allowed the time to analyze how a 0.33 speed upgrade to the BL will play out in relation to a sensor tower vision radius nerf.
So we're pretty much just accusing Alex007, someone who has dedicated a decade of his life to doing Ukranian rebroadcast and organizing the eastern-european scene, of having come into the job at ESL with the secret plan (or secret order whatever) to craft an elaborate balance patch so that one of two players (Serral or Reynor, but also not Dark, Solar or Ragnarok) would win the next world championship, in order to maybe marginally increase viewership numbers in order to maybe convince an executive at Activision to resign on a financing deal for 23-24.
Or, we could choose the much more uplifting option that a bunch of people who really, really, like Starcraft and wish it continue, put a bunch of ideas together and convinced Blizz to actually put it into the game. Maybe it'll be good for the balance, maybe not but I find it a bit sad to throw them under the bus out of nowhere.
|
France12909 Posts
On December 19 2022 09:34 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 05:05 Nakajin wrote:On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it. the people making money from SC2 esport certainly care about it But who's that in 2022 really? Obviously, you have the casters and the players but outside of that? There's Alex007 at ESL and maybe one or two persons around him, the rest of the production guys would work there anyway on other projects. Maybe management at ESL care a bit about SC2 numbers, but it's definitely just another contract amongst their long list of product. Then you have the GSL and the Afreeca TV staff and the WTL guys, but it's not them you are talking about. And we are left with...a couple of team managers (maybe) and the AlphaX guys and that's it? And finally Blizzard of course, after all, they are the ones pumping money in the scene. Well, they haven't put out a SC2 product in half a decade, most if not all of the RTS dev team is out, and they just did their first patch in years that was essentially crowd sourced to the community. It's a bit silly to imagine that anyone working there has the game knowledge or is allowed the time to analyze how a 0.33 speed upgrade to the BL will play out in relation to a sensor tower vision radius nerf. So we're pretty much just accusing Alex007, someone who has dedicated a decade of his life to doing Ukranian rebroadcast and organizing the eastern-european scene, of having come into the job at ESL with the secret plan (or secret order whatever) to craft an elaborate balance patch so that one of two players (Serral or Reynor, but also not Dark, Solar or Ragnarok) would win the next world championship, in order to maybe marginally increase viewership numbers in order to maybe convince an executive at Activision to resign on a financing deal for 23-24. Or, we could choose the much more uplifting option that a bunch of people who really, really, like Starcraft and wish it continue, put a bunch of ideas together and convinced Blizz to actually put it into the game. Maybe it'll be good for the balance, maybe not but I find it a bit sad to throw them under the bus out of nowhere. I did not look at each of the pages of the PTR topic about the latest balance patch, but iirc the gameheart mod dev (who was not part of Blizzard but took some functions in it with his work) said that the balance council (thus the players from the foreign community) did not know about all the proposed changes in that PTR patch. In that case, I think it is a similar case as the mapmakers community: some of them despise the players / don’t wanna take balance into account when making maps.
Ultimately though, you are right about the uplifting part: we should be very very very thankful (even if thanksgiving is done for this year) about StarCraft 2 still getting support after so many years. On the other hand, the PTR / balance topic got way more posts than this awesome HSC on TLnet, so even though we should stay positive, having some negative reactions to things like patches and stuff means people still care about the game, which is a good thing .
There are more appropriate places to discuss these things than this topic I guess, but I am not sure we have the luxury to do that (nor the need?) with that level of activity?
Either way, although I only watched on Saturday and Sunday after the football World Cup, this tournament was very entertaining. ByuN confirmed his good form (beating Maru was not a fluke after all ) and once again that he is a « wolf in sheep clothing », while the Protosses such as Zoun and Astrea were brilliant!
Ggs
|
|
|
On December 19 2022 10:30 BelethielQT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 08:14 JJH777 wrote:On December 19 2022 05:05 Nakajin wrote:On December 19 2022 04:56 Charoisaur wrote:On December 19 2022 04:51 tigera6 wrote: Now Byun and Astrea need to fight it out and then lose to Reynor so that Zerg has no excuse to roll out the patch at least until IEM is finished. there was no reason to buff Zerg anyway even before this tournament. Another Zerg winner won't change anything. Certain people just want Zerg to dominate I feel like at this point it's just straight up hubris to imagine anyone care enough about SC2 esport to organize a conspiracy about it. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think the issue is that the people balancing the game and organizing events for it want to believe that Serral is the best person to ever touch the game and acknowledging that Zerg has spent the last few years as the best race weakens his claim to that title dramatically. So rather than acknowledging that they just say Zerg is fine or even underpowered and Serral and the all other Zergs that have won events are just that much better than T/P players. Which leads to balance patches like this one. Mad serral hater
|
Of course the usual terran fan boys complaining about balance in a home story cup thread instead or the balance thread
I did enjoy Astrea rekting Byun though in clown feata style
NA holds against Korea
|
On December 19 2022 11:28 TossHeroes wrote: Of course the usual terran fan boys complaining about balance in a home story cup thread instead or the balance thread
I did enjoy Astrea rekting Byun though in clown feata style
NA holds against Korea Since you call people fanboys regardless of the thread, I'm not sure why anyone should care.
|
Had to watch the Grand Final through VOD, but Reynor just out-micro Astrea so hard in the entire series. Reynor lings were picking up unit after unit for free and the Muta ran circle around the slow Carriers in that game 4. 5-6 Phoenix would shut down the Muta but Astrea kept building and losing Carriers was not great.
On December 19 2022 11:28 TossHeroes wrote: Of course the usual terran fan boys complaining about balance in a home story cup thread instead or the balance thread
I did enjoy Astrea rekting Byun though in clown feata style
NA holds against Korea Typica Toss and Serral fanboy response.
|
On December 19 2022 13:14 tigera6 wrote: Had to watch the Grand Final through VOD, but Reynor just out-micro Astrea so hard in the entire series. Reynor lings were picking up unit after unit for free and the Muta ran circle around the slow Carriers in that game 4. 5-6 Phoenix would shut down the Muta but Astrea kept building and losing Carriers was not great.
Yeah, Astrea seemed to get the good end of the build order RPS but just couldn't execute, probably a mix of nerves and tiredness from playing so many games. With the rate he's improving and his current level I do feel like he has the capacity to win an international event at some point though, he's arguably the #2 Toss right now though still obviously far behind herO.
|
France12909 Posts
On December 20 2022 00:58 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2022 13:14 tigera6 wrote: Had to watch the Grand Final through VOD, but Reynor just out-micro Astrea so hard in the entire series. Reynor lings were picking up unit after unit for free and the Muta ran circle around the slow Carriers in that game 4. 5-6 Phoenix would shut down the Muta but Astrea kept building and losing Carriers was not great.
Yeah, Astrea seemed to get the good end of the build order RPS but just couldn't execute, probably a mix of nerves and tiredness from playing so many games. With the rate he's improving and his current level I do feel like he has the capacity to win an international event at some point though, he's arguably the #2 Toss right now though still obviously far behind herO. You are hurting a lot of MaxPax fans feelings right now, even though you are probably right about Astrea being #2 toss
|
I can gladly say that after this latest HSC, the only non-Koream contender for GOAT is Reynor. It always has been. I honestly can't think of any other non-Korean that can be considered GOAT... not even Clem whos the 2nd best non-Korean after Reynor.
|
On December 25 2022 01:35 tlnetuser108 wrote: I can gladly say that after this latest HSC, the only non-Koream contender for GOAT is Reynor. It always has been. I honestly can't think of any other non-Korean that can be considered GOAT... not even Clem whos the 2nd best non-Korean after Reynor.
Stephano is the best ever for non-Koreans, there is no question. He won tournaments against the very best Koreans when the Team Houses were still open and redefined the meta. Winning against Koreans today is lesser achievement.
Serral is #2.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On December 27 2022 04:29 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2022 01:35 tlnetuser108 wrote: I can gladly say that after this latest HSC, the only non-Koream contender for GOAT is Reynor. It always has been. I honestly can't think of any other non-Korean that can be considered GOAT... not even Clem whos the 2nd best non-Korean after Reynor. Stephano is the best ever for non-Koreans, there is no question. He won tournaments against the very best Koreans when the Team Houses were still open and redefined the meta. Winning against Koreans today is lesser achievement. Serral is #2.
Stephano never won tournaments against the very best Koreans and lost to other European all the times. At best he won one trophy beating beating MC and Alicia just as they were about to fade into obscurity with the Kespa switch.
Serral litteraly went 8 months without losing a series.
|
On December 27 2022 10:39 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2022 04:29 BronzeKnee wrote:On December 25 2022 01:35 tlnetuser108 wrote: I can gladly say that after this latest HSC, the only non-Koream contender for GOAT is Reynor. It always has been. I honestly can't think of any other non-Korean that can be considered GOAT... not even Clem whos the 2nd best non-Korean after Reynor. Stephano is the best ever for non-Koreans, there is no question. He won tournaments against the very best Koreans when the Team Houses were still open and redefined the meta. Winning against Koreans today is lesser achievement. Serral is #2. Stephano never won tournaments against the very best Koreans and lost to other European all the times. At best he won one trophy beating beating MC and Alicia just as they were about to fade into obscurity with the Kespa switch. Serral litteraly went 8 months without losing a series. I think Serral > Reynor > Neeb > Stephano is pretty clearly the pecking order for best non-Koreans of all time, after that are probably Snute, Naniwa, Clem and maybe Scarlett in some order?
|
|
|
|
|
|