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[GSL 2022] Code S:Season 3 - Ro20 Group B - Page 12

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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allmotor1
Profile Joined December 2017
153 Posts
August 25 2022 20:51 GMT
#221
On August 26 2022 05:24 BelethielQT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 05:22 CicadaSC wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:09 BelethielQT wrote:
On August 26 2022 04:41 Poopi wrote:
On August 26 2022 02:16 Khabra wrote:
This result by Reynor puts a massive doubt on 'goat discussion', in my opinion, as he was quite successful in rivalry with Serral on foreign scene. Looks like Koreans try much harder in gsl than other tournaments. Korea still the powerhouse!

Serral is not really in serious GOAT discussion considering even Rogue has an asterisk despite having the best resume, because he only started dominating after kespa was gone. Maru has had success before but lacks WC, while INno lacks WC as well



and u are the one who decide who is goat and who is not?

i mean can u be the goat if u dont even play code s, the hardest tournament? seems like a bit of a meme.


since when is code s the hardest tournament?



since the dawn and inception sc2 history?
allmotor1
Profile Joined December 2017
153 Posts
August 25 2022 20:52 GMT
#222
On August 26 2022 05:44 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 05:29 BelethielQT wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:28 Cricketer12 wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:26 BelethielQT wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:25 CicadaSC wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:24 BelethielQT wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:22 CicadaSC wrote:
On August 26 2022 05:09 BelethielQT wrote:
On August 26 2022 04:41 Poopi wrote:
On August 26 2022 02:16 Khabra wrote:
This result by Reynor puts a massive doubt on 'goat discussion', in my opinion, as he was quite successful in rivalry with Serral on foreign scene. Looks like Koreans try much harder in gsl than other tournaments. Korea still the powerhouse!

Serral is not really in serious GOAT discussion considering even Rogue has an asterisk despite having the best resume, because he only started dominating after kespa was gone. Maru has had success before but lacks WC, while INno lacks WC as well



and u are the one who decide who is goat and who is not?

i mean can u be the goat if u dont even play code s, the hardest tournament? seems like a bit of a meme.


since when is code s the hardest tournament?

since 2010


its ok to be wrong

Glad you can accept yourself for your faults



i see u cant accept the reality

Name 1 tournament harder than GSL


he can't that's why it's a new account to troll
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17744 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-25 20:59:45
August 25 2022 20:59 GMT
#223
On August 25 2022 21:47 dbRic1203 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2022 21:40 Swisslink wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:38 Argonauta wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:33 Swisslink wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:28 Fango wrote:
Anyone can lose in GSL groups. Even in 2022 the depth of high level players is such that anyone can lose in the group stages.


I wouldn't say the overall level of play is the main issue. Otherwise Koreans would dominate the foreign tournaments as well and that's not really the case. It's just that GSL is, purely because of the format, a different type of tournament that requires a different set of skills.


As far as I am aware, region lock for Koreans still exists.


Not even sure, but there are many international tournaments that take place over 2-3 days and foreign players tend to do well there even if Koreans participate. GSL with its week long preparation just seems to favor Koreans. Which is perfectly fine, but it's not because the overall level is just that much higher nowadays.

I wouldn t even say, it favours Koreans, but players who a used to the format, wich are mostly Koreans.
Special for example excells at preperation based tournaments as well, even though he isn t Korean.
He was just in GSL so long,m that he is more used to preparing.
On the other side Reynor didn t prepare at all but relied simply on his (ridculous high) baseline skill level.
But that is clearly not enough, when your opponents have prepared specifically for playing you.

in the interview at the end, DRG said he didn't prepare for ZvZ/Reynor
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States14000 Posts
August 25 2022 21:24 GMT
#224
On August 26 2022 05:59 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2022 21:47 dbRic1203 wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:40 Swisslink wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:38 Argonauta wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:33 Swisslink wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:28 Fango wrote:
Anyone can lose in GSL groups. Even in 2022 the depth of high level players is such that anyone can lose in the group stages.


I wouldn't say the overall level of play is the main issue. Otherwise Koreans would dominate the foreign tournaments as well and that's not really the case. It's just that GSL is, purely because of the format, a different type of tournament that requires a different set of skills.


As far as I am aware, region lock for Koreans still exists.


Not even sure, but there are many international tournaments that take place over 2-3 days and foreign players tend to do well there even if Koreans participate. GSL with its week long preparation just seems to favor Koreans. Which is perfectly fine, but it's not because the overall level is just that much higher nowadays.

I wouldn t even say, it favours Koreans, but players who a used to the format, wich are mostly Koreans.
Special for example excells at preperation based tournaments as well, even though he isn t Korean.
He was just in GSL so long,m that he is more used to preparing.
On the other side Reynor didn t prepare at all but relied simply on his (ridculous high) baseline skill level.
But that is clearly not enough, when your opponents have prepared specifically for playing you.

in the interview at the end, DRG said he didn't prepare for ZvZ/Reynor

Focusing on tougher opponents. Good strategy
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
Cold-Blood
Profile Joined March 2010
United States200 Posts
August 26 2022 00:04 GMT
#225
On August 26 2022 06:24 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 05:59 Die4Ever wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:47 dbRic1203 wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:40 Swisslink wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:38 Argonauta wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:33 Swisslink wrote:
On August 25 2022 21:28 Fango wrote:
Anyone can lose in GSL groups. Even in 2022 the depth of high level players is such that anyone can lose in the group stages.


I wouldn't say the overall level of play is the main issue. Otherwise Koreans would dominate the foreign tournaments as well and that's not really the case. It's just that GSL is, purely because of the format, a different type of tournament that requires a different set of skills.


As far as I am aware, region lock for Koreans still exists.


Not even sure, but there are many international tournaments that take place over 2-3 days and foreign players tend to do well there even if Koreans participate. GSL with its week long preparation just seems to favor Koreans. Which is perfectly fine, but it's not because the overall level is just that much higher nowadays.

I wouldn t even say, it favours Koreans, but players who a used to the format, wich are mostly Koreans.
Special for example excells at preperation based tournaments as well, even though he isn t Korean.
He was just in GSL so long,m that he is more used to preparing.
On the other side Reynor didn t prepare at all but relied simply on his (ridculous high) baseline skill level.
But that is clearly not enough, when your opponents have prepared specifically for playing you.

in the interview at the end, DRG said he didn't prepare for ZvZ/Reynor

Focusing on tougher opponents. Good strategy


he said in the pre-recorded questions between matches he was worried about him and expected him the go all the way, exactly like bunny and dream, he also offered the only nostradamus opinion stating he was interested to see reynor in a long-form style tournament which obviously gave him a bit of misstep on his first attempt

to change the subject a little, sheesh i love state and tasteless what a great combo, tasteosis will always have GOAT status, but I am not mad one bit to continue on with this for the future, i know artosis and tasteless love sc2 but it is nice to have someone who plays regularly as well
Forever and Always #1 YellOw fan.
Kitaen
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria466 Posts
August 26 2022 02:59 GMT
#226
As for the GOAT discussion, it is absolutely ridiculous to even mention Reynor, lol. He has literally not even a top 10 spot.
Starting to get good at a game when the pro scene is essentially crippled it like bragging on World of Warcraft PvE achievements in 2022.

The only active players that can be mentioned in such discussion are Maru (since he was good when SC2 was still big) and Serral since he was SO dominant. Yet there are a lot more players that would have priority such as MVP, Life and Innovation.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3513 Posts
August 26 2022 03:05 GMT
#227
If anything, this helps Rogue case for GOAT debate. Remember how some people say that Rogue cant be GOAT because he flunked out early in GSL group stage? Apparently its not that easy to get pass the GSL group stage.
HeroSandro
Profile Joined July 2019
538 Posts
August 26 2022 03:17 GMT
#228
On August 26 2022 03:14 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm happy. Im SO HAPPY that Reynor lost. Not only did he lose he was humilliated being the first player to be eliminated in his group.

HOPEFULLY this will once and for all eliminate those disscussions about him and serral being the GOATs.

You simply cannot be the GOAT if you havent won a GSL. GSL is the longest running tournament of all. The most prestigious and the most difficult.

Raynor is a great player, but he was arrogant and paid for it. IF there is a GSL next year, maybe he can try again and will surely prepare better.

In the mean time, it is just clear how much difficult GSL is.

How on earth Reynor losing means Serral is not a GOAT? Just thinking about the logic in this statement 😂The GOAT discussion is fruitles as everyone has their own criteria (have to win GSL etc).
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2605 Posts
August 26 2022 03:27 GMT
#229
On August 26 2022 02:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I was pretty confident about Bunny, but I can confess now that my mouse hovered for a very long time over DRG before I voted Reynor. I expected something like this, should have gone with my guts. I hope Reynor and foreigners in general don't give up on GSL, but that kind of result shows how insanely hard it remains to win that particular tourney.

Going to rewatch the games now to see if preparation played a huge role in the Bunny loss or not.


It seemed that Reynor got parade pushed twice.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
neveranexit
Profile Joined July 2018
14 Posts
August 26 2022 05:41 GMT
#230
8/25/2022
the darkest day for EU SC2
Hard to imagine a more shameful result
Seacow
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden99 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-26 06:25:28
August 26 2022 06:21 GMT
#231
The GOAT discussion is tiresome.

But as others have pointed out, Reynor's loss really drove home the point that GSL is a unique tournament. Bunny's two base pushes is a testament to the importance of preparation, Reynor seemed indecisive and unsure how to handle them. That's the beauty of GSL I suppose, the 200 IQ prep work bearing fruit.

Weekend tournaments lack this component, but test other skills (endurance? Spontaneous adaptation?). What that means for goat discussions is not something with an objectice answer. There's merit to both tournament styles.

Still, sad to see Reynor get knocked out. Despite this disappointing result I still consider him a world class player. Better luck (and prep?) next time!

Also, some very unsavoury replies in this thread after his loss. Schadenfreude is ugly.
Early upgrade enthusiast
661
Profile Joined May 2018
71 Posts
August 26 2022 06:35 GMT
#232
On August 26 2022 03:14 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm happy. Im SO HAPPY that Reynor lost. Not only did he lose he was humilliated being the first player to be eliminated in his group.

HOPEFULLY this will once and for all eliminate those disscussions about him and serral being the GOATs.

You simply cannot be the GOAT if you havent won a GSL. GSL is the longest running tournament of all. The most prestigious and the most difficult.

Raynor is a great player, but he was arrogant and paid for it. IF there is a GSL next year, maybe he can try again and will surely prepare better.

In the mean time, it is just clear how much difficult GSL is.


Im glad you’ve find something to be happy about
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16086 Posts
August 26 2022 08:10 GMT
#233
On August 26 2022 12:17 HeroSandro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 03:14 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm happy. Im SO HAPPY that Reynor lost. Not only did he lose he was humilliated being the first player to be eliminated in his group.

HOPEFULLY this will once and for all eliminate those disscussions about him and serral being the GOATs.

You simply cannot be the GOAT if you havent won a GSL. GSL is the longest running tournament of all. The most prestigious and the most difficult.

Raynor is a great player, but he was arrogant and paid for it. IF there is a GSL next year, maybe he can try again and will surely prepare better.

In the mean time, it is just clear how much difficult GSL is.

How on earth Reynor losing means Serral is not a GOAT? Just thinking about the logic in this statement 😂The GOAT discussion is fruitles as everyone has their own criteria (have to win GSL etc).

Well some people said Serral would easily win the GSL if he ever tried and don't want to give him minus points for not having a ,GSL trophy because "he could have won it anytime if he wanted" so I think this shows winning the GSL is not as easy as some people thought
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16086 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-26 08:11:57
August 26 2022 08:11 GMT
#234
On August 26 2022 11:59 Kitaen wrote:
As for the GOAT discussion, it is absolutely ridiculous to even mention Reynor, lol. He has literally not even a top 10 spot.
Starting to get good at a game when the pro scene is essentially crippled it like bragging on World of Warcraft PvE achievements in 2022.

The only active players that can be mentioned in such discussion are Maru (since he was good when SC2 was still big) and Serral since he was SO dominant. Yet there are a lot more players that would have priority such as MVP, Life and Innovation.

I think it's either Maru or Rogue depending on criteria and shortly behind them Serral and Inno
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
August 26 2022 08:19 GMT
#235
On August 26 2022 17:10 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 12:17 HeroSandro wrote:
On August 26 2022 03:14 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm happy. Im SO HAPPY that Reynor lost. Not only did he lose he was humilliated being the first player to be eliminated in his group.

HOPEFULLY this will once and for all eliminate those disscussions about him and serral being the GOATs.

You simply cannot be the GOAT if you havent won a GSL. GSL is the longest running tournament of all. The most prestigious and the most difficult.

Raynor is a great player, but he was arrogant and paid for it. IF there is a GSL next year, maybe he can try again and will surely prepare better.

In the mean time, it is just clear how much difficult GSL is.

How on earth Reynor losing means Serral is not a GOAT? Just thinking about the logic in this statement 😂The GOAT discussion is fruitles as everyone has their own criteria (have to win GSL etc).

Well some people said Serral would easily win the GSL if he ever tried and don't want to give him minus points for not having a ,GSL trophy because "he could have won it anytime if he wanted" so I think this shows winning the GSL is not as easy as some people thought

anyone who says someone could win a GSL "easily" on their first attempt is not worth listening to anyway
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
August 26 2022 10:09 GMT
#236
Stateless casting was great. Love the combo.

And on the overdone GOAT debate: I think this helps to show how impressive Maru and Rogue's 4 GSLs really are - they indicate prowess in a kind of cut-throat high-prep format that Serral hasn't been tested in.
That said, I'd expect Serral would have a better shot at getting through that group than Reynor.
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1250 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-26 12:17:23
August 26 2022 12:15 GMT
#237
On August 26 2022 17:10 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 12:17 HeroSandro wrote:
On August 26 2022 03:14 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm happy. Im SO HAPPY that Reynor lost. Not only did he lose he was humilliated being the first player to be eliminated in his group.

HOPEFULLY this will once and for all eliminate those disscussions about him and serral being the GOATs.

You simply cannot be the GOAT if you havent won a GSL. GSL is the longest running tournament of all. The most prestigious and the most difficult.

Raynor is a great player, but he was arrogant and paid for it. IF there is a GSL next year, maybe he can try again and will surely prepare better.

In the mean time, it is just clear how much difficult GSL is.

How on earth Reynor losing means Serral is not a GOAT? Just thinking about the logic in this statement 😂The GOAT discussion is fruitles as everyone has their own criteria (have to win GSL etc).

Well some people said Serral would easily win the GSL if he ever tried and don't want to give him minus points for not having a ,GSL trophy because "he could have won it anytime if he wanted" so I think this shows winning the GSL is not as easy as some people thought

If Serral spent a year living in Korea and focusing hard on GSL I think he'd have a good chance of winning a season, but I doubt he could fly in and just snatch the trophy lol.

Also any Reynor goat discussion is ridiculous. He's clearly an incredible talent, but his trophy case is well behind so many players (Serral, Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, sOs, MVP) and his world championship was played online. If competitive SC2 goes on for a while and he becomes more consistent he maybe has a chance to enter the conversation.

(My 2 cents is that Rogue is pretty clearly the goat, even if I'm not a huge fan of him)
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7362 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-26 13:24:54
August 26 2022 13:22 GMT
#238
On August 26 2022 03:14 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm happy. Im SO HAPPY that Reynor lost. Not only did he lose he was humilliated being the first player to be eliminated in his group.

HOPEFULLY this will once and for all eliminate those disscussions about him and serral being the GOATs.

You simply cannot be the GOAT if you havent won a GSL. GSL is the longest running tournament of all. The most prestigious and the most difficult.

Raynor is a great player, but he was arrogant and paid for it. IF there is a GSL next year, maybe he can try again and will surely prepare better.

In the mean time, it is just clear how much difficult GSL is.


Reynor lost ergo Serral can't be GOAT... wait! what?

Since when is Reynor the top forgein contender for GOAT anyway?
IMO Reynor doesn't hold a candle to Serral who is arguably in the top 3 of all time depending on metrics and whatnot


Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
pandorasheep
Profile Joined February 2022
73 Posts
August 26 2022 14:02 GMT
#239
Even though Reynor completely bombed out, I still think its admirable of him to try to compete in GSL. You can't, under any and all circumstances, be considered GOAT if you don't even try to compete in GSL main season. Doesn't matter how many "world championships" you have or how many times you "beat elite Koreans". If you haven't even attempted to compete in GSL. I would say Reynor is the best non Korean right now.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
August 26 2022 14:04 GMT
#240
Without knowing statistics and purely by my own feeling, Serral has way more solid results against Koreans and chokes less against them. Still sorta disappointing by Reynor.
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