EPTI think a GOAT has to have the sort of status where pro players look up to them and aspire to beat them one day, and anyone would be considered unfavoured against them and a victory would be an upset.
[GSL 2022] Code S:Season 3 - Ro20 Group B - Page 15
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
I think a GOAT has to have the sort of status where pro players look up to them and aspire to beat them one day, and anyone would be considered unfavoured against them and a victory would be an upset. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Rogue has a stocked trophy cabinet for the big prestige tournaments, but less so of the wee ones and is a little less consistent overall in that domain. Serral has the big WCs, a lot of lesser tournaments and has been very consistent for a good 3/4 year span. But doesn’t have Code S on his resume. There are gaps in everyone’s claim to some degree, but they’re all in the conversation. The scene’s been through that many structural changes in yearly format, the talent dump of Kespa’s entry and the gradual talent drain we’re seeing now etc. Code S is a tournament built around the Korean ecosystem, the teams within it fostering talent and well, being Korean helps somewhat given it requires a fair chunk of time being spent in the country. When Korea was Starcraft Mecca and all the best players resided there, we were very much comparing like with like. Serral upsets that applecart a little by getting to his level outside of that ecosystem, which itself is IMO somewhat underappreciated. I still think it would be great if Serral did give Code S a shot, and increasingly I think it needs him as much as he needs it for his legacy given the decline in depth. That said I don’t really put any of these guys above or below each other in my head ranking anyways, I certainly wouldn’t make the tournament that innately favours being Korean the straight tie-breaker | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On August 29 2022 18:15 gobbledydook wrote: I don't think SC2 has had a GOAT like how Flash was in SCBW or Faker in LOL. I think a GOAT has to have the sort of status where pro players look up to them and aspire to beat them one day, and anyone would be considered unfavoured against them and a victory would be an upset. Indeed. If you have to think who the GOAT is, there generally isn’t really one. A Don Bradman in cricket, Gretzky in ice hockey or a Usain Bolt are a couple of (IMO) relatively few basically undisputed GOATs in their fields. A good test batsman has a batting average of 40, a great one hits the 50s. A literal handful have scraped low 60s. The Don averages 99.75 Flash has almost every stat or metric in his favour, sometimes convincingly so. SC2 doesn’t really have a player like that. It also didn’t have a scene that was basically all under one roof, playing the same tournaments and team competitions for years and years. Also playing the same game. You can more easily compare careers whose peaks didn’t necessarily overlap without trying to weight for the importance of weekenders vs GSL, where the other Starleague sits, several different iterations of World Championships. BW had a deep playerbase right up until Kespa shifted, SC2’s has ebbed and flowed with the Kespa switch seeing the peak and a gradual decline for quite some time thru now. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Aside from trophies, bonjwa is known for their aura of invincibility. Not many SC2 have that aura of being absolutely unplayable, even in their prime. The closest is SC2's own Zerg-that-shalt-not-be-named, 4-GSL-streak Maru, and BO7 Rogue (another contender is Inno briefly during HoTS). Maybe it's harder to be bonjwa across different tourney formats (Flash wasn't that dominant in WCG weekender format either). | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On August 29 2022 21:40 WombaT wrote: Indeed. If you have to think who the GOAT is, there generally isn’t really one. A Don Bradman in cricket, Gretzky in ice hockey or a Usain Bolt are a couple of (IMO) relatively few basically undisputed GOATs in their fields. A good test batsman has a batting average of 40, a great one hits the 50s. A literal handful have scraped low 60s. The Don averages 99.75 Flash has almost every stat or metric in his favour, sometimes convincingly so. SC2 doesn’t really have a player like that. It also didn’t have a scene that was basically all under one roof, playing the same tournaments and team competitions for years and years. Also playing the same game. You can more easily compare careers whose peaks didn’t necessarily overlap without trying to weight for the importance of weekenders vs GSL, where the other Starleague sits, several different iterations of World Championships. BW had a deep playerbase right up until Kespa shifted, SC2’s has ebbed and flowed with the Kespa switch seeing the peak and a gradual decline for quite some time thru now. Small correction. The Don averaged 99.94. Had he scored 4 runs in his final innings (hilariously he got a duck) he would have averaged 100. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
![[image loading]](http://misc.team-aaa.com/perso_Soeil/mvp-smile.gif) | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On August 29 2022 21:57 RKC wrote: All this talk about GOAT is maybe pointless. The better term is 'bonjwa'. Which is kind of a vague and elusive term itself. But in BW, there's at least 3-4 bonjwas across different eras: Nada, iloveoov, Flash, Boxer and the Zerg-that-shalt-not-be-named (last two is rather contentious due to less trophies and shorter reign). Aside from trophies, bonjwa is known for their aura of invincibility. Not many SC2 have that aura of being absolutely unplayable, even in their prime. The closest is SC2's own Zerg-that-shalt-not-be-named, 4-GSL-streak Maru, and BO7 Rogue (another contender is Inno briefly during HoTS). Maybe it's harder to be bonjwa across different tourney formats (Flash wasn't that dominant in WCG weekender format either). A bonjwa discussion is easy. There hasn't been one. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On August 30 2022 01:40 SHODAN wrote: here's your GOAT Finally a sensible post | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
Reynor was jet lagged, wasn’t trying, and saving his build for the more important TSL9 tournament against GOAT Serral | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On September 01 2022 23:45 TossHeroes wrote: Not too surprising result Reynor was jet lagged, wasn’t trying, and saving his build for the more important TSL9 tournament against GOAT Serral Foreigner cope continues to amuse me. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 02 2022 00:23 Cricketer12 wrote: Foreigner cope continues to amuse me. Missing the /s tag, it’s just parroting what people say any time Maru doesn’t win a weekend tournament. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On September 02 2022 00:45 WombaT wrote: Missing the /s tag, it’s just parroting what people say any time Maru doesn’t win a weekend tournament. Thanks Wombat for noticing it  But I guess those excuses only works for Maru or any Korean that gets embarrassed outside of Korea | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On September 02 2022 00:45 WombaT wrote: Missing the /s tag, it’s just parroting what people say any time Maru doesn’t win a weekend tournament. Point to a singular time I said that about Maru. | ||
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