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On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor.
Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time.
I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main.
Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO.
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On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main. Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO.
And as many ppl told you already as soon as he runs into someone who has a good offrace too and feels comfortable with it vs his offrace you run into the dumb situation described.
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Kind of funny how for all this talk of mid-series race switching, Reynor's Zerg did nothing for him this series (other than maybe changing the order Dark picked maps.) Not that that has much bearing on the conversation about race switching in theory, just amusing.
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Canada8989 Posts
On August 21 2022 03:21 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main. Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO. And as many ppl told you already as soon as he runs into someone who has a good offrace too and feels comfortable with it vs his offrace you run into the dumb situation described.
I mean, you just make it blind and the problem is solved. Also it never happen.
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I appreciate the gall to blink under broods when there's ultras RIGHT THERE
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On August 21 2022 03:21 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main. Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO. And as many ppl told you already as soon as he runs into someone who has a good offrace too and feels comfortable with it vs his offrace you run into the dumb situation described.
Well that is a moot point cause no one else is doing this.
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On August 21 2022 03:27 Back2Back wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:21 darklycid wrote:On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main. Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO. And as many ppl told you already as soon as he runs into someone who has a good offrace too and feels comfortable with it vs his offrace you run into the dumb situation described. Well that is a moot point cause no one else is doing this.
Maru played Protoss in TSL qualifiers.
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Canada8989 Posts
No fun zerg killing protoss people hopes once again
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On August 21 2022 03:28 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:27 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:21 darklycid wrote:On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main. Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO. And as many ppl told you already as soon as he runs into someone who has a good offrace too and feels comfortable with it vs his offrace you run into the dumb situation described. Well that is a moot point cause no one else is doing this. Maru played Protoss in TSL qualifiers.
And that was fun wasn't it?
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Maybe Reynor shouldn't have race switched in the middle of the series 
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On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time.
There was a good reason though why it has historically been forbidden and the only reason allowing it works now is because it used to be forbidden (meaning most players didn't practice their offraces)
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On August 21 2022 03:30 Back2Back wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:28 Durnuu wrote:On August 21 2022 03:27 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:21 darklycid wrote:On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. I see people saying it's unfair. But it's obviously disadvantageous for the race switcher. They have to learn another race. Maybe not to the same level as a random player. But I think most pros do not have another race even close to the same level as their main. Reynor being this good at an off race is an expression of skill. The way he plays protoss is different than other protosses. It makes the game more interesting IMO. And as many ppl told you already as soon as he runs into someone who has a good offrace too and feels comfortable with it vs his offrace you run into the dumb situation described. Well that is a moot point cause no one else is doing this. Maru played Protoss in TSL qualifiers. And that was fun wasn't it?
No, but the games would have been just as shit if he played his main race. Just too much better than the opposition.
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Korean wannabes being mad at a foreigner offracing 
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Canada8989 Posts
On August 21 2022 03:30 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2022 03:19 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:59 Back2Back wrote:On August 21 2022 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 21 2022 02:38 dysenterymd wrote:On August 21 2022 02:22 Die4Ever wrote:
So if you've got a PvZ bo3, and you have 3 maps that have 55%, 45%, and 50% winrates for protoss, it's basically balanced with an average win rate of 50%
But if you decide to change races to instead play the mirror on the weak map, then you've changed the average win rate of the map pool to 51.7% in your favor
it doesn't sound like a huge difference but it's an exploit of the map pool that doesn't need to exist and it can become more amplified with a longer series and some outlier maps In theory, but this assumes that the race switcher is equally skilled with both their races. I think it's valid to ban race switching mid series, but a lot of reactions in this thread (not yours) are hilariously over the top. At this point there's more evidence of race switching hurting Reynor than there is of it helping him (like struggling to qualify for TSL and losing to Elazer in HSC), even if Reynor manages to win this series. Arguably Reynor needs more time practicing with toss to reap the theoretical benefits of race switching, but that's just speculation at this point. There also seems to be no serious movement among non Reynor players towards race switching, so the dark future of race pick rock-paper scissors is also pure catastrophizing. GSL rulesets prohibit it, but if there were some secret reward awaiting you'd expect foreign players to attempt it more. You're of course right that right now it's unlikely we get that scenario but I don't think potentially problematic rules should be maintained just to benefit 1 player. And yes, in theory it's a problematic rule because it's entirely sensible that you can't allow all players to pick their own matchups. If switching races gave that big of an advantage more pro's would be doing it. This sounds like people on the ladder who complain about random players not saying what race they are. Reynor playing a second race at such a high skill level in a match up is awesome. Him being a zerg player for years and suddenly playing protoss is fun. This entire thread has been hi jacked by it. This makes Starcraft more interesting. People complaining sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons who cant stand change, which ironically is what kills interest in Starcraft. Change is good. People playing the game in a different way makes it more interesting. I already explained why more pros aren't doing it. Because it has historically been forbidden and in GSL still is. Gumiho and TLO played random in the beginning of sc2 and Flash in bw and random has way more disadvantages and less advantages so if race-picking has been allowed from the beginning I could totally see there being a few race-pickers in the scene which would lead to the mentioned problematic scenario. That's why it's a sensible rule to disallow it and I don't feel that great about them allowing it now for Reynor. Just because it's been historically doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Sports go through rule changes to make the game more interesting all the time. There was a good reason though why it has historically been forbidden and the only reason allowing it works now is because it used to be forbidden (meaning most players didn't practice their offraces)
And Reynor did put in the work so now it's working, other players will just have to practice their off-race then if it's so good (which I highly doubt tbh). It's not like he has any advantage over anyone else.
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It seems pretty clear to me that the best general policy is for players to be able to pick any race for any series, but not switch map-to-map.
I don't think Reynor's current activities are in any way a problem for the scene, though, or harm competitive integrity. They are generally interesting and good fun.
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I had a dream, but Dark adapted so well in the last 2 games.
Reynor still doesn't have the experience with P to be so fluid.
Also for the memes: he lost because of the ZvZ, 3-3 with Protoss, 0-1 with Zerg
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any games worth watching? I missed the livestream
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On August 21 2022 17:59 SHODAN wrote:
any games worth watching? I missed the livestream
Game 7 of the finals was super fun. Finals in general were good.
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EPT
