EPTIt was super funny seeing how mad the twitch chat got. Rogue really elevated his villain status by taking down Serral in such a brutal fashion, especially across two separate Bo7s in one day.
TSL8 - Week 3 - Page 20
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Niravroh
165 Posts
It was super funny seeing how mad the twitch chat got. Rogue really elevated his villain status by taking down Serral in such a brutal fashion, especially across two separate Bo7s in one day. | ||
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 08:30 Niravroh wrote: Also, another fun fact, Rogue and Trap are now tied in terms of EPT points with 2897 each, holding a joint first place on the Korean server. Now, I am curious to see who is a leader when the Code S begins next year. Trap already got the benefit before in Code S pick despite not winning any Code S title. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 06:56 WombaT wrote: There was a period where Serral was basically untouchable in ZvZ macro games, and they all largely went a similar way. Nobody was better at navigating roach wars thru lurker/viper When there’s a pretty stable meta that includes extended midgame battling into frequent lategames Serral is always going to be tough to beat. I’m not sure specifically what caused that meta to shift to something more volatile and back to being full of gambits and early knife fights, but such a scenario definitely suits a player of Rogue’s considerable skillset Grats to Rogue, although a bloody brutal last day after Serral stomped Trap, not the most enjoyable day of Starcraft but overall a great event. Yeah, playing at late game ZvZ is some calculative risk factor that needs to be addressed by Rogue when facing a tough Zerg opponent like Serral or Dark. Having learnt that he may not has a chance to beat in longer macro series, I think it is a brilliant move by him to just end the series fast when he see the timings after blindsiding Serral. Serral is pretty dominance in late ZvP specifically and ZvZ based on his recent games with Reynor or Dark. His ZvT late games just not dominance as those two matchups when he faces Clem, who defeat him in mid games with widow mine and rines turtling and Maru who knows the best in handling TvZ late game. Meanwhile, Rogue admitted that he was not confident in ZvZ macro games and his late game against Dark in last DH Masters series proved he might not delivered it. If I am Rogue, I feel bad as I do not play honorable macro games as the audiences desire for despite that I can still win in many ways. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On December 13 2021 06:56 WombaT wrote: There was a period where Serral was basically untouchable in ZvZ macro games, and they all largely went a similar way. Nobody was better at navigating roach wars thru lurker/viper When there’s a pretty stable meta that includes extended midgame battling into frequent lategames Serral is always going to be tough to beat. I’m not sure specifically what caused that meta to shift to something more volatile and back to being full of gambits and early knife fights, but such a scenario definitely suits a player of Rogue’s considerable skillset Grats to Rogue, although a bloody brutal last day after Serral stomped Trap, not the most enjoyable day of Starcraft but overall a great event. IMO Mutas are just way too good in ZvZ in the recent map pools. It feels like if one player goes Mutas and the other plays macro (not even failing an all in or anything), the non-muta player is just extremely behind. This doesn't really explain all of Rogue's successful super early game all ins, but it helps explain why other top level ZvZs are so clownish. The danger of someone getting away with mutas makes everyone more all-inny. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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tigera6
3481 Posts
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tigera6
3481 Posts
On December 13 2021 08:30 Niravroh wrote: Also, another fun fact, Rogue and Trap are now tied in terms of EPT points with 2897 each, holding a joint first place on the Korean server. I think all 3 Trap, Rogue and Maru already got enough pts to be seeded into IEM. Serral and Clem will be fighting for the last spot but I think Serral will get it after Last Chance. | ||
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Husyelt
United States837 Posts
Disappointing final day overall, I wish the casters, (im sorry for the criticism,) would limit the amount of "storyline" talk especially when it comes to predicting the potential boring endgames. "Trap cant beat Serral, PvZ too hard in consecutive matchups" > "Rogue finals bad, Serral will probably lose 4-0 like he did to Dark" > I don't like the opposite either where its all fake hype and such, but it seems like the (albeit pretty fun,) Caster predictions from ESL, have leaked into the casts themselves. Again, sorry for the criticism, overall the tournament was dope. And maybe im in the minority and this is more of a pet peeve. | ||
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Kitai
United States880 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 13 2021 03:37 Vindicare605 wrote: These results are both unsurprising and surprising to me at the same time as I look down the bracket. A shame I wasn't able to see all of this because of my work schedule. Congrats to Rogue though, he's easily proven to be the most accomplished Zerg of 2021, which just adds to his resume as the best Zerg in Starcraft 2. Good run from Trap, although a typical exit from him in the Ro4 as well. A bit of a sad showing from the Terrans this tournament, but that happens from time to time. Perhaps if a new map pool comes out things will shake up. It seems to me the longer maps stay in the pool the more they'll end up benefitting Zergs since the meta always has Zerg playing a lot of defense and the longer a map stays the more Zergs figure out counters to everything the other races will do. So, new maps. New meta. New year. Let's see what happens in 2022. Part of this is also that so much of the bracket is Bo3, which is super volatile. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7139 Posts
 Thank you TL for organizing another great event! And thank you all the sponsors and people behind the scenes for making this such fun experience! Well played! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 11:40 tigera6 wrote: I dont get why people are so upset because of what Rogue did, other than they are being Serral fanboy. I mean Terran got shit ton of early pressure build that will kill the Zerg if they dont defend properly, from Hellbat to BC rush to 3 Racks. Protoss also got the Archon-Chargelot, 6 gate Glaive, DT, ect..What Rogue did is simply forcing a response from his opponent, and use that to leverage into a long macro if it is defended. But Serral never did defend it properly, and thats why he lost. Well, partially because Serral is overhyped by foreign content creators as the foreign Messiah and the bestest player everest. So when he loses in such brutal way it just doesn't seem right. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26494 Posts
On December 13 2021 13:40 Kitai wrote: I figured Rogue had Serral's number at the moment. Sad I missed the finals due to work, but grats to Rogue on another big win. He seems like *the* player to beat right now. Also I feel like one of the few that don't buy into the "Rogue villain" storyline - at this point he's just one of the all-time greats to me and should be a fan favorite in his own right! I think it’s very tongue in cheek, I imagine most have a great respect for Rogue’s chops, he just happens to play many an underwhelming series in playoffs. The memorable ones tend to be when he loses, not actually because I want him to lose but just seems to work out that way. The Classic shadow strike snipe was an epic singular gamble or the ST finals against Maru which was just a good series I think unless he drops off a bit and/or Dark and Serral push up to god mode levels for an extended period it’s difficult to argue against him as the Zerg GOAT, and he could push for the overall title. When Dark took his Blizzcon and GSL they were pretty level, with a slight bias from me with Dark but Rogue’s really put the hammer down | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On December 13 2021 19:50 WombaT wrote: I think it’s very tongue in cheek, I imagine most have a great respect for Rogue’s chops, he just happens to play many an underwhelming series in playoffs. The memorable ones tend to be when he loses, not actually because I want him to lose but just seems to work out that way. The Classic shadow strike snipe was an epic singular gamble or the ST finals against Maru which was just a good series I think unless he drops off a bit and/or Dark and Serral push up to god mode levels for an extended period it’s difficult to argue against him as the Zerg GOAT, and he could push for the overall title. When Dark took his Blizzcon and GSL they were pretty level, with a slight bias from me with Dark but Rogue’s really put the hammer down To be fair to Rogue his last finals win vs Maru was a pretty sick series  With 3 world champ level titles and 3 GSLs I think it's pretty unlikely any Zerg overtakes Rogue's resume at this point. IMO he's Zerg Goat by a fair margin, and one of only two serious overall contenders. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7139 Posts
On December 13 2021 11:40 tigera6 wrote: I dont get why people are so upset because of what Rogue did, other than they are being Serral fanboy. I mean Terran got shit ton of early pressure build that will kill the Zerg if they dont defend properly, from Hellbat to BC rush to 3 Racks. Protoss also got the Archon-Chargelot, 6 gate Glaive, DT, ect..What Rogue did is simply forcing a response from his opponent, and use that to leverage into a long macro if it is defended. But Serral never did defend it properly, and thats why he lost. Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset  On December 13 2021 20:43 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: IMO he's Zerg Goat by a fair margin, and one of only two serious overall contenders. Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now Unless if Rogue takes fourth Code S title next year, he is in serious consideration. Talking about Inno, I hope he can come back after finishing his military service. | ||
Poopi
France12911 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now It’s highly dependent on how you value being able to be relevant during kespa era when competition was arguably fiercer. It’s also dependent on how much you take into account balance during wins etc. | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On December 13 2021 22:16 swarminfestor wrote: Unless if Rogue takes fourth Code S title next year, he is in serious consideration. Talking about Inno, I hope he can come back after finishing his military service. I highly doubt Inno will come back to SC2 after military considering how little he cared about it for the ~2 years before it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26494 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now That’s a pretty tough one. Inno was better in probably the highest level, cut-throat era, Rogue has been consistently good but excellent in the current rough era, while Inno fell off the top. Too tough to call, I’d have little argument with anyone favouring one or the other, I’d still personally go Inno I think I’d give it to Rogue despite the less cutthroat competition but for Zerg being so in the ascendency in ZvP for quite some period now. | ||
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