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TSL 8 - Week 2
Dec 12 14:00 GMT (+00:00)
Upper bracket semis and finals
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TSL8 - Week 3
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
Dec 12 14:00 GMT (+00:00) Upper bracket semis and finals Lower bracket rounds 4-8 Grand Finals TeamLiquid StarLeague/8CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: Team Liquid | ||
Poopi
France12883 Posts
Looking forward to see Maru play again  | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1057 Posts
EDIT: Serral is taking a lot more damage from these Disruptor drops than I thought he would! | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1057 Posts
On December 10 2021 21:40 Waxangel wrote: Pretty cute to open with Disruptor drop-Colossus but play it into 3 base instead of going for the 'normal' fast all-in. Feels like Serral over-Roached at a Drone timing cause he was fearing the 2 base all-in version. I can't remember the last time I saw the all-in work. Zerg players always mash the Roach key after seeing the Disruptor drop. Definitely a smart choice by Trap! | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On December 10 2021 21:45 darklycid wrote: Still the game showed how knifes edge traps style is, if he is not 100% on point he just gets demolished I think. Isn't everything knifes edge at such high level though? | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On December 10 2021 21:46 Poopi wrote: Isn't everything knifes edge at such high level though? Idk some styles are definitely more forgiving, I think traps style is especially depending on his sharpness, which is why he looks so lost sometimes. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1057 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:05 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Damn, did I miss a cool Disruptor game? Stupid early morning PvZ .Well, the rest has been a disaster, so meh | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1057 Posts
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:11 MJG wrote: Watching Queens underneath Microbial Shroud fight against Carriers makes me a sad Zealot. Queens are the warp gate of Zergs xD | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:11 MJG wrote: Watching Queens underneath Microbial Shroud fight against Carriers makes me a sad Zealot. I can't beileve the words "microbial shroud is so op" cross my mind | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1057 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:17 Nakajin wrote: I can't beileve the words "microbial shroud is so op" cross my mind I don't think it's overpowered, it just looks sad to watch Carriers being so ineffective. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:19 MJG wrote: I don't think it's overpowered, it just looks sad to watch Carriers being so ineffective. I don't really like air units being used as a core army, so I don't mind that much. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:21 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I don't really like air units being used as a core army, so I don't mind that much. I don't know, PvZ just seems that every other way is worse. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:22 swarminfestor wrote: I want to ask something since I never played Protoss. Does any pro player ever trying to make double prism micro instead one prism micro? Like having four disruptors instead of turtling with two disruptors micro with one prism. Robo time kills that. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
Yeah, I felt like most Sc player like to utilize one prism at one time. Why not utilizing two warp prisms at the same time? | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:21 deacon.frost wrote: I don't know, PvZ just seems that every other way is worse. Oh, I'm not talking balance, I just mean that an air army focus destroys the strategic fundamentals of StarCraft. Map movement and control, proper engagement, that sort of thing relies a lot on map geometry, which air units just ignore. It's most obvious when you get mirrors, like Phoenix PvP or Raven TvT. It's always been that way too, Mutalisk ZvZ and Battlecruiser TvT were just the worst endstates of Brood War pro games. On December 10 2021 22:22 swarminfestor wrote: I want to ask something since I never played Protoss. Does any pro player ever trying to make double prism micro instead one prism micro? Like having four disruptors instead of turtling with two disruptors and micro with one prism. Robotics Facility production is one of the most important resources in Protoss ground games, so every additional Warp Prism or Observer you build is a sacrifice. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:35 tigera6 wrote: On Berlingrad, is there any specific reason why Protoss keep pushing up that ramp with their ground army? Its very hard to attack up a ramp into a concave of Roach/Ravager/Queen. If the attack coming from the 3rd base, granted there is more creep, but that gives a better surface area for the encounter, and they can at least disturb the mining on the 3rd base of Zerg. Don't know about others, but Trap went to end the game, not disrupt mining operations. It was an all in and didn't work. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:27 swarminfestor wrote: Yeah, I felt like most Sc player like to utilize one prism at one time. Why not utilizing two warp prisms at the same time? Because you would have to go double robo which makes you vulnerable to air transitions. WP are expensive and making 2 means you are left without units which can attack. Making multiple observers is pretty risky. Imagine this as the zerg issue with larvae. If you make shitload of drones it's great, good. Unless 3 seconds later you see a warp in, then you're dead. This is exactly the same issue. Building too many support units from robo leaves you very vulnerable and means you have less high tech high power high damage robo units. And the latter is the huge issue. Because gateway units are ... bad at best, you NEED the tech units which means sacrificing the time for additional WP is bad. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:22 swarminfestor wrote: I want to ask something since I never played Protoss. Does any pro player ever trying to make double prism micro instead one prism micro? Like having four disruptors instead of turtling with two disruptors and micro with one prism. Now that I think about it, I remember seeing a few games of this back when Archon/Warp Prism PvZ was the meta, since the actual power units come from the Gateway in that. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 10 2021 22:45 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Now that I think about it, I remember seeing a few games of this back when Archon/Warp Prism PvZ was the meta, since the actual power units come from the Gateway in that. When Artosis liked SC2 more he showed a game where Patience with f2 pulled like 3 WPs on the same position xD | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
On December 10 2021 23:23 swarminfestor wrote: What does Serral mean actually? Never heard the word before until I encountered a player named Joona Stola. Serral has said before that it has no particular meaning. He picked it at the same time he and his brother (Protosser) started playing sc brood war. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On December 10 2021 23:23 swarminfestor wrote: What does Serral mean actually? Never heard the word before until I encountered a player named Joona Stola. "Ser"= "Cerf" aka cervus antlers/deer in latin (the F is silent) Common in Finland Ral= slang for addeRALl It mean "Deer on adderall" | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Moonerz
United States445 Posts
edit: aged like milk after G1 | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
On December 10 2021 23:30 Niravroh wrote: Serral has said before that it has no particular meaning. He picked it at the same time he and his brother (Protosser) started playing sc brood war. They also started out playing the other two races and made the nicknames from them. Doesn't take a genius to change out two letters. (no source, just my opinion) | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
Can't wait for Maru vs Dark already though | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 11 2021 01:19 darklycid wrote: Time to pray to Trap. Situation normal. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Moonerz
United States445 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
Oh well, at least now we can start crying about how OP Lurker is, again. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:32 Charoisaur wrote: at least we now won't hear the complaints anymore that lategame ZvT is unwinnable for the Zerg Maybe finally the Protoss elitists aknowledge the bad state of Terran But I guess they won't  | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:32 Charoisaur wrote: at least we now won't hear the complaints anymore that lategame ZvT is unwinnable for the Zerg Did anyone really think that? xD Only Maru seemed to have a chance while all others terrans mostly got crushed on the new map pool, even Clem I guess zergs figured out his style and now we have to wait and see if he has found something to win again | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:35 deacon.frost wrote: Maybe finally the Protoss elitists aknowledge the bad state of Terran But I guess they won't What is a Protoss elitist? What is a Protoss elite? Protoss have always been the most despised race, from 1a2a3a gg ez race to cheeses to deathballs to skytoss. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:39 Argonauta wrote: the worst thing is that now TSL8 is ZvZ until rogue wins Well ByuN is favored versus RagnaroK isn't he? And HeroMarine has a shot versus Reynor in their current shape | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:40 Fanatic-Templar wrote: What is a Protoss elitist? What is a Protoss elite? Protoss have always been the most despised race, from 1a2a3a gg ez race to cheeses to deathballs to skytoss. in this case the TL, DR can be: Only Protoss is in bad state, Terran is fine. Zerg and Terran stronk. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:43 deacon.frost wrote: in this case the TL, DR can be: Protoss is in a uniquely bad state. Fixed that for you. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:43 deacon.frost wrote: in this case the TL, DR can be: Only Protoss is in bad state, Terran is fine. Zerg and Terran stronk. I mean many complaints are feel driven and at least for Terran it feels like they have chances :D | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:42 Poopi wrote: Well ByuN is favored versus RagnaroK isn't he? And HeroMarine has a shot versus Reynor in their current shape But then there's Rogue, Serral and Dark. Which is the issue. If it was just 1 Zerg, maybe. But this way? Nope. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:46 Pandain wrote: Maru and Trap dominate 2021 but people still complain about Zerg. Go figure. as a poster before pointed out. It is because the disproportionally amount of zergs placing higher in tournaments compared to the other two races. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:43 deacon.frost wrote: in this case the TL, DR can be: Only Protoss is in bad state, Terran is fine. Zerg and Terran stronk. "Being in a bad state" is "elite" now? | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:36 Poopi wrote: Did anyone really think that? xD Only Maru seemed to have a chance while all others terrans mostly got crushed on the new map pool, even Clem I guess zergs figured out his style and now we have to wait and see if he has found something to win again after king of battles some people said that xD which was of course incredibly stupid because Maru is the only one who can even compete with the top zergs at that stage, but even he loses sometimes there | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:46 Pandain wrote: Maru and Trap dominate 2021 but people still complain about Zerg. Go figure. Trap hasn't dominated in a quite long time | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:46 Pandain wrote: Maru and Trap dominate 2021 but people still complain about Zerg. Go figure. Premier titles of 2021 of the top players: Trap - 5 Serral - 3 Dark - 2 Rogue - 2 Reynor -2 Maru 1 (2 with KoB) WHAT A DOMINATION!!!! Maru is just unstoppable! How does he do it? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:47 Fanatic-Templar wrote: "Being in a bad state" is "elite" now? I think you missed my post by like 8 lightyears xD Just forget it. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:47 Argonauta wrote: as a poster before pointed out. It is because the disproportionally amount of zergs placing higher in tournaments compared to the other two races. There are about nine players who collectively are 99.9% favored to win any tournament they enter. They are Serral, Rogue, Dark, Reynor, Maru, Cure, Clem, Zest, Trap. Between these players I don't think there is ever a balance problem and they regularly trade series and games. The problem isn't balance, it's that there are just more good Zerg players because of how military service played out (Stats gone, Innovation & TY gone). Who are the top S-tier zergs that went to military service - none really. I don't know if this is too provocative but that's what I'll say. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:54 Pandain wrote: There are about nine players who collectively are 99.9% favored to win any tournament they enter. They are Serral, Rogue, Dark, Reynor, Maru, Cure, Clem, Zest, Trap. Between these players I don't think there is ever a balance problem and they regularly trade series and games. The problem isn't balance, it's that there are just more good Zerg players because of how military service played out (Stats gone, Innovation & TY gone). Who are the top S-tier zergs that went to military service - none really. I don't know if this is too provocative but that's what I'll say. None except like ByuL and soO | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:54 Pandain wrote: There are about nine players who collectively are 99.9% favored to win any tournament they enter. They are Serral, Rogue, Dark, Reynor, Maru, Cure, Clem, Zest, Trap. Between these players I don't think there is ever a balance problem and they regularly trade series and games. The problem isn't balance, it's that there are just more good Zerg players because of how military service played out (Stats gone, Innovation & TY gone). Who are the top S-tier zergs that went to military service - none really. I don't know if this is too provocative but that's what I'll say. Did you like forget soO? oO Edit> Also I dare to say that Cure, Zest and Clem are nowhere near to be such favorites. Especially Clem who still has to prove on the international scene IMO. Like don't get me wrong, these players are not bad, but are not as reliable as the rest. Which are 4 Z 1 T and 1 P. What a time we live in | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:54 Pandain wrote: There are about nine players who collectively are 99.9% favored to win any tournament they enter. They are Serral, Rogue, Dark, Reynor, Maru, Cure, Clem, Zest, Trap. Between these players I don't think there is ever a balance problem and they regularly trade series and games. The problem isn't balance, it's that there are just more good Zerg players because of how military service played out (Stats gone, Innovation & TY gone). Who are the top S-tier zergs that went to military service - none really. I don't know if this is too provocative but that's what I'll say. I feel like Zest and Trap lose more vs the top Zergs than they win though. Especially in bo5+ | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:58 deacon.frost wrote: Did you like forget soO? oO Edit> Also I dare to say that Cure, Zest and Clem are nowhere near to be such favorites. Especially Clem who still has to prove on the international scene IMO. Like don't get me wrong, these players are not bad, but are not as reliable as the rest. Which are 4 Z 1 T and 1 P. What a time we live in I agree but he still has a point with the military departures. soO also was the least impressive of the Zergs at the time of his departure. the Katowice run was a complete miracle for him | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 03:03 Charoisaur wrote: I agree but he still has a point with the military departures. soO also was the least impressive of the Zergs at the time of his departure. the Katowice run was a complete miracle for him Of course he has, when Stats was departuring I was already predicted bad years. Or was it the Classic thread? One of these. It wasn't hard to predict the future will be dark. Edit> if you count in Clem and Cure in their current form, soO has a place there! | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
While I dont mind seeing TvZ all day, its just a damn shame to see 3-4 Zerg ganging up on a Terran deep into the tournament. Thats why I need to see Clem getting his top TvZ back and start dropping down on Zerg again, but he seems to be in a limbo of how to deal with anything outside of lingbane opening. As for Protoss, its aint happening against top Zergs with proper scouting and defend from them, | ||
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Gottingen
United States27 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:52 deacon.frost wrote: Premier titles of 2021 of the top players: Trap - 5 Serral - 3 Dark - 2 Rogue - 2 Reynor -2 Maru 1 (2 with KoB) WHAT A DOMINATION!!!! Maru is just unstoppable! How does he do it? dark got only 1 I think | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
HA! Now he has to win TSL xD | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 11 2021 02:52 deacon.frost wrote: Premier titles of 2021 of the top players: Trap - 5 Serral - 3 Dark - 2 Rogue - 2 Reynor -2 Maru 1 (2 with KoB) WHAT A DOMINATION!!!! Maru is just unstoppable! How does he do it? Maru also got 3 2nd place, losing to Zergs as well. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 11 2021 03:11 tigera6 wrote: Maru also got 3 2nd place, losing to Zergs as well. I wouldn't call that as domination though, to be fair. Domination to me is to winning tropheys. Like Trap dominated the first half of the year, but now Zergs are dominating, not Maru. Maybe we have different expectation of domination. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 11 2021 03:16 deacon.frost wrote: I wouldn't call that as domination though, to be fair. Domination to me is to winning tropheys. Like Trap dominated the first half of the year, but now Zergs are dominating, not Maru. Maybe we have different expectation of domination. I agree with that too. Trap had a way better year than Maru. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 11 2021 03:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Thinking that the upper loser's bracket is going to have one of Byun, Ragnarok or Solar while Trap, Dark, Reynor, Maru, Cure, Clem and MaxPax were all fighting for the lower bracket is kinda funny. This is what you get for dropping out early from the winner bracket. I mean Dark was going through the same thing when he won TSL6, Reynor/Rogue/Maru/Parting/Byun/Serral. However, I would just thought that the Ro12 and beyond should just be Bo5 already. | ||
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Moonerz
United States445 Posts
On December 11 2021 03:29 tigera6 wrote: This is what you get for dropping out early from the winner bracket. I mean Dark was going through the same thing when he won TSL6, Reynor/Rogue/Maru/Parting/Byun/Serral. However, I would just thought that the Ro12 and beyond should just be Bo5 already. Yep, that Dark losers run was insane. Maru had a chance to do it here and it would have been just as if not more epic just running through all these top Zergs. Realistically Maru screwed the bracket losing to Bunny =b. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
As for Maru, although I do not really like him: Credit where credit is due, he's been showing great results lately while delivering great games vs. the best of the best. | ||
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia316 Posts
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Moonerz
United States445 Posts
. Still looking forward to Rogue/Serral on winner's side and that might end up being our GF as well unless Dark can knock one of them off | ||
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Shathe
Hungary422 Posts
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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parksonsc
175 Posts
On December 11 2021 03:59 JoeCool wrote: Sooo happy to see Serral (slowly) coming back to his old form! Top 3 Zerg right now for sure. As for Maru, although I do not really like him: Credit where credit is due, he's been showing great results lately while delivering great games vs. the best of the best. how can someone like Maru has anti fan though? | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 11 2021 18:00 parksonsc wrote: how can someone like Maru has anti fan though? Same as why Serral got lot of anti-fan, pretty much the EU vs KR debate for years. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4009 Posts
On December 11 2021 18:00 parksonsc wrote: how can someone like Maru has anti fan though? usually it's not that people don't like the player, its that people don't like their fans, which happens a lot in different sports/esports and is usually not acknowledged by fans themselves. Typical us vs them case. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 11 2021 21:50 darklycid wrote: I guess we're just back at zerg being good never left | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom428 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
Disguised itself by having some trap wins some super tournaments and the one or two maru wins | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 11 2021 22:21 darklycid wrote: Dark taking out maru into playing like this is pretty sad. The same case with Bunny last few days, and sOs before in Blizzcon 2018. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
Probably not | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 11 2021 22:27 Elentos wrote: Maybe Trap can save this tournament Probably not Yeah, then he has to face Serral or Rogue after defeating Reynor. I didn't have much hope based on his games with Serral yesterday since he needed to prepare a tone of builds against Zerg. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1875 Posts
On December 11 2021 22:43 Waxangel wrote: All of my "RagnaroK lost but he played really well!" talk paying off finally? Good to see people finally getting on the Rag God bandwagon  | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 11 2021 22:57 Mizenhauer wrote: Good to see people finally getting on the Rag God bandwagon I'm sticking with Solar. Solar/Hurricane were my underdog favourites for so long. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 11 2021 23:31 nojok wrote: Time for our only Hey man, zerg is weak. It's only Serral, Reynor, Dark, Rogue, Solar, soO (rip), Ragnarok, and Scarlett that win tournaments | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 11 2021 23:47 Durnuu wrote: Hey man, zerg is weak. It's only Serral, Reynor, Dark, Rogue, Solar, soO (rip), Ragnarok, and Scarlett that win tournaments Zerg is the least represented in Grandmasters Ladder in every region, which is definitely the thing to keep in mind. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:04 Die4Ever wrote: "what's good against queens and ravagers", damn that's a good question Rottie lol Disruptors, but even then it's not a guarantee at all and you need quite a few | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:03 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Yeah, this is why gold bases stopped being put in maps way back in Wings of Liberty. they're fine as long as they're on GOLDEN WALL | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:05 MarianoSC2 wrote: And you guys still think Trap is not a choker? What the hell was that game lol, so bad... You gotta have a warped view of reality to have that takeaway from that game | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:04 Waxangel wrote: they're fine as long as they're on GOLDEN WALL Different maps have different effects - there was this one map with very defensible golds and short air distance, Habitation maybe? which was actually quite strong for Protoss - and of course the game is much different now than in WoL. But generally gold minerals are not as good for Protoss since they're a gas-intensive race, and they lack the mobility to defend split bases like that. Also, back then MULEs mined extra on gold minerals, so that was stupid. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:20 Waxangel wrote: As unbeatable as late-game Zerg can look when everything is perfect, it's also hilarious how bad it dies to Protoss a-move if you screw up I've actually not felt that Protoss is unwinnable in the late-game, it's more in the midgame that Protoss feels very weak to me, when you're desperately trying to mass up enough tech units to live and every loss is a disaster. But none of my games ever get to that level, so take that with a grain of salt. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:24 Charoisaur wrote: can Trap beat 4 top Zergs in a row to win the tournament? Probably not | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1875 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:03 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Yeah, this is why gold bases stopped being put in maps way back in Wings of Liberty. Don't forget this gem from late hots. It (Expedition Lost) was one of the most Zerg favored maps of all time because Zergs could easily take both golds as their 2nd/3rd bases. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
THREE! MORE! ZERGS! THREE! MORE! ZERGS! | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:37 geokilla wrote: I hate SkyToss I mean, I do too. But I want Protoss to win more . | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
Trap should beat Ragnarok but after that it's gonna get shit. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:24 Charoisaur wrote: can Trap beat 4 top Zergs in a row to win the tournament? Would be the most impressive tournament performance of all time for Trap to beat these 4 Zergs in a row in the current meta. | ||
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I mean, I do too. But I want Protoss to win more .Same, not a big fan of Trap either. But just to spite zerg I hope Trap takes it all. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I mean, I do too. But I want Protoss to win more .Its a battle of lesser evils, luckily for Protoss its hard not to be the lesser evil given how Zerg is at the moment. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
But he may pull of two heroic performance then get blasted by Serral! | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:41 nojok wrote: Imagine 3 bo7 ZvZ in a row, we need Trap. I think I'd rather have that than any PvZ tbh | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:41 Zambrah wrote: Its a battle of lesser evils, luckily for Protoss its hard not to be the lesser evil given how Zerg is at the moment. There's still a chance we'll see some beautiful Disruptor games. Maybe. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:41 nojok wrote: Imagine 3 bo7 ZvZ in a row, we need Trap. Idk. Recent ZvZs were actually kinda fun especially the Dark vs Rogue series across 5 tournaments | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2226 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:52 Harris1st wrote: Idk. Recent ZvZs were actually kinda fun especially the Dark vs Rogue series across 5 tournaments Pretty much most ZvZs between Serral, Reynor, Dark, and Rogue over the past two years have been very fun to watch, certainly more than most ZvPs, TvTs, PvPs and probably (imo) TvPs as well. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:51 Fanatic-Templar wrote: There's still a chance we'll see some beautiful Disruptor games. Maybe. I dont know if theyd be beautiful from a Protoss perspective, lol | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 12 2021 00:57 Zambrah wrote: I dont know if theyd be beautiful from a Protoss perspective, lol Probably. But did you see that Disruptor hit four Infestors earlier? | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
On December 12 2021 01:00 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Probably. But did you see that Disruptor hit four Infestors earlier? Unfortunately I mostly work and listen, but I certainly heard the hype noises, lol | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Canada5819 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
TWO! MORE! ZERG! TWO! MORE! ZERG! | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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sim999999
23 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On December 12 2021 01:39 darklycid wrote: Well Rag really benefited from the upper bracket being not as stakced and good zvz i guess. He beat Zest, Reynor, herO, ByuN and Solar dropping only 2 games. I don't think that's a particularly easy bracket for top players to go through. Let alone Ragnarok who's usually the underdog against 4 out of those 5. And then he also went 0-5 against Trap. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On December 12 2021 01:47 Elentos wrote: He beat Zest, Reynor, herO, ByuN and Solar dropping only 2 games. I don't think that's a particularly easy bracket for top players to go through. Let alone Ragnarok who's usually the underdog against 4 out of those 5. And then he also went 0-5 against Trap. I actually think its the most impressive run of anyone so far, in temrs of players beat | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 12 2021 02:10 Pandain wrote: I actually think its the most impressive run of anyone so far, in temrs of players beat Yeah it is a solid series of scalps for sure | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
Bit sad about the lack of terrans and the disappointing runs of both Zest and Clem though. Trap beating Reynor (and RagnaroK expectedly) is imo the best result to avoid endless ZvZ, but I doubt he can get past Serral, and Rogue should be difficult as well. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
On December 12 2021 05:02 Kitai wrote: Serral is 1-3 against Rogue this year (7-8 in maps). Rogue just went 5-1 against Korea's other best Zergs, and he also beat Maru in a finals directly after Serral was defeated by Maru in a finals. I feel like Serral has the uphill battle here (maybe 40% chance he wins) Top level ZvZ really feels like a total clown fiesta right now. Rogue has been better in the clown fiesta meta than anyone else, but even he isn't totally immune (losing to Lambo in Netease, for example.) I think Rogue is the slight favorite but it's really anyone's series imo and almost any scoreline is possible too | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On December 12 2021 05:13 dysenterymd wrote: Top level ZvZ really feels like a total clown fiesta right now. Rogue has been better in the clown fiesta meta than anyone else, but even he isn't totally immune (losing to Lambo in Netease, for example.) I think Rogue is the slight favorite but it's really anyone's series imo and almost any scoreline is possible too And don't forget rematch curse since IMO both Zergs are the favorites against Trap and will likely meet again | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
On December 12 2021 07:34 Harris1st wrote: And don't forget rematch curse since IMO both Zergs are the favorites against Trap and will likely meet again Did you know Trap is undefeated against Rogue this year and has won their last six Bo3+ encounters? | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
As for Trap he'll probably choke against both but if he plays like he did against Reynor with the tricky fake supreme lategame timing attacks he has a shot. Hopefully he wins so the Zergies get screwed over that would be the best | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
On December 12 2021 20:55 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogues ZvZ is on another level compared to Serral but anyone can have a bad day we will see. Hm... | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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Lazzarus
Faroe Islands114 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 12 2021 23:40 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Huh, +1 Carapace Banelings can survive the detonation of 2 enemy Banelings. Did not know that. Yeah, it take two detonations to kill Rogue bannellings. | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 12 2021 23:40 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Huh, +1 Carapace Banelings can survive the detonation of 2 enemy Banelings. Did not know that. Same with +1 carapace zerglings, by the way | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 12 2021 23:44 Durnuu wrote: Same with +1 carapace zerglings, by the way I did know that, oddly enough. (I assume you mean 1 detonation, not 2.) | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 12 2021 23:44 FuRong wrote: I wonder how Serral would do if he played every game in the series starting from the assumption he's getting all-ined even if he has no scouting evidence to support that conclusion. knowing you will get allined doesn't give you much information in ZvZ because you don't know which allin is coming and vs some of them you want to play greedy initially and vs others pumping units early | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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Lazzarus
Faroe Islands114 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:07 Lazzarus wrote: 4-2 is not a smackdown… an absolute THRASHING dude | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:05 MarianoSC2 wrote: Yep. A smackdown from Rogue as expected. His ZvZ is on another level + he looks to be in top form overall at the moment as well. Would be surprising to not see him win this quite easily with the players left... IDK if I would call a 4-2 a smackdown, especially since it was mostly down to bo choice/read | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:07 Lazzarus wrote: 4-2 is not a smackdown… I agreed that it it might not smackdown, but Serral easily got mindgamed just like his final game against Lambo before even thought he was mechanically superior than his opponent. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:08 Nakajin wrote: IDK if I would call a 4-2 a smackdown, especially since it was mostly down to bo choice/read that's Rogues biggest strength though. Most of his finals stomps came down to bo choice/read | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:20 tigera6 wrote: Just another opinion, but the loser of the Winner Final got a worse schedule than the one coming from the Loser Bracket. Serral has to play a stressful Bo7 and get little break for another Bo7, while Trap got to rest and prepare for it. Should have made the Losers play their Semi-Final after the Winner Final. why should the loser of the winner final have an advantage vs the oone coming from the Loser Bracket thóugh? They have both lost 1 series | ||
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:28 Durnuu wrote: Banelings and ravagers, what else do you really need tbh Perfect vision with creep! | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:20 tigera6 wrote: Just another opinion, but the loser of the Winner Final got a worse schedule than the one coming from the Loser Bracket. Serral has to play a stressful Bo7 and get little break for another Bo7, while Trap got to rest and prepare for it. Should have made the Losers play their Semi-Final after the Winner Final. On the other hand Serral knows he might have to play Trap whereas Trap has to be prepared for two different zergs | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Its gonna be another GM vs gold leaguer 4:0 isnt it? | ||
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:34 Poopi wrote: On the other hand Serral knows he might have to play Trap whereas Trap has to be prepared for two different zergs You have to prepare for everyone at this stage of the tournament anyway. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:34 Poopi wrote: On the other hand Serral knows he might have to play Trap whereas Trap has to be prepared for two different zergs Trap is lucky to know he can only face zergs, unfair advantage, he can focus entirely on one match-up, it's already his 5th series in a row vs zerg, his brain must be fully rewired by now. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:20 tigera6 wrote: Just another opinion, but the loser of the Winner Final got a worse schedule than the one coming from the Loser Bracket. Serral has to play a stressful Bo7 and get little break for another Bo7, while Trap got to rest and prepare for it. Should have made the Losers play their Semi-Final after the Winner Final. Playing vs Protoss is pretty relaxing for Zerg. Like a nice vacation really from the stressful games vs T and Z | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:41 Die4Ever wrote: how is Trap supposed to hold that? it just countered his build. If he opened with like 8 Voidrays that wouldn't work. But that is of course more vulnerable to Queen Ravager allins. It's just really really hard to account for everything | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2655 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:52 TheLordofAwesome wrote: These games all suck Welcome to pvz | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
The ZvZ wasn't better, alas. If only Dark hadn't completely collapsed | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
ZvZ craft, where we pretend that Blizzard left the game at the peak | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On December 13 2021 00:57 deacon.frost wrote: ZvZ craft, where we pretend that Blizzard left the game at the peak If pvz wasn't that terrible to look at at least | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:01 darklycid wrote: If pvz wasn't that terrible to look at at least At least viewers will drop faster? Like, maybe then some people will try to do something... (don't think so) | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
(Or maybe Maru we'll lose all his momentum until then and we'll see even more zvz) | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:09 Nakajin wrote: On the plus side Kato is months away, maybe someone will find an answer to zerg since then. (Or maybe Maru we'll lose all his momentum until then) I wonder how frustrating this is to Trap, to know he will go to Kato, meet shitload of zergs, win some money but not the tourney. I just cannot see how all Protoss pros are saying that the game is fine, everything is fine. While playing THIS. But hey, at least I know to not watch VODs from the weekend xD | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:12 Durnuu wrote: Trap hesitated for a long time before typing GG because he really wanted to call Serral the p word patch zerg? | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:12 Durnuu wrote: Trap hesitated for a long time before typing GG because he really wanted to call Serral the p word | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:15 Xamo wrote: Trap the non-zerg champion! :-) Two legs champ! | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:13 deacon.frost wrote: I wonder how frustrating this is to Trap, to know he will go to Kato, meet shitload of zergs, win some money but not the tourney. I just cannot see how all Protoss pros are saying that the game is fine, everything is fine. While playing THIS. But hey, at least I know to not watch VODs from the weekend xD He can hope Maru/Clem beating the shit out of all the Zerg and he can just PvT to a championship. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:20 tigera6 wrote: He can hope Maru/Clem beating the shit out of all the Zerg and he can just PvT to a championship. Doubt that, especially about Clem who to me seems for some bullshit reason weaker at the international level. Like it should matter whether you play with Koreans or not. But he's not delivering ... would love to see that changed. Honestly, the long break may actually be better for Zergs than Terrans or Protosses. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:22 deacon.frost wrote: Doubt that, especially about Clem who to me seems for some bullshit reason weaker at the international level. Like it should matter whether you play with Koreans or not. But he's not delivering ... would love to see that changed. Honestly, the long break may actually be better for Zergs than Terrans or Protosses. Maru also become weaker for every step he take away from the GSL studio, I doubt he can do it in Poland in front of a live crowd | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:20 tigera6 wrote: He can hope Maru/Clem beating the shit out of all the Zerg and he can just PvT to a championship. Trap can beat one top Zerg per tournament (I'm not sure if he can beat Serral, I like Zest's chances against Serral more than Trap's tbh) so he just needs all but one to be eliminated by other zerg/terran! | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:24 Nakajin wrote: Maru also become weaker for every step he take away from the GSL studio, I doubt he can do it in Poland in front of a live crowd I thought Maru did well in IEM offline as well, losing to Rogue both times in Semi-Final? | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:27 tigera6 wrote: I thought Maru did well in IEM offline as well, losing to Rogue both times in Semi-Final? Maru was always weaker in the foreigner lands. Considering he didn;t fly as much as sOs or Trap, it seems to many people he doesn't like travelling and handles it worse than these two. Add to that no travelling for 2 years and he may deliver the most hilarious fail at Katowice right after NaNiwa. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Sif_
Brazil3106 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:48 Durnuu wrote: Has there been even one good game on this final day no | ||
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tantalus
69 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
I thought I liked this map pool, but I'm increasingly disliking it more and more given how dominant Zergs look on these maps. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2655 Posts
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tantalus
69 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:50 swarminfestor wrote: Did Serral become a new victim of completed domination from Rogue in the final match? Now, I am thinking only Maru can goes neck and neck with Rogue in final. Except that one time in the GSL finals, but all other finals between them were super entertaining... unlike this final so far... | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
I went away for a minute and missed it | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:52 Zambrah wrote: This is probably EDIT: almost the worst final day I could have possibly imagined, lol ZvZ is bad regardless just like PvP | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:51 buzz_bender wrote: What on earth is this final day of TSL... I thought I liked this map pool, but I'm increasingly disliking it more and more given how dominant Zergs look on these maps. The previous map pool was a Terran one, that was good for T and P because it got rid of more Z in TvZ. Now this a Zerg pool, so be used to ZvZs again... Rooting for Maru more than ever! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:56 Zambrah wrote: ZvZ was good for a while, I really liked Roach wars, what the fuck happened that turned it back into this degeneracy? ZvZ used to be good because it wasn't as much played as nowadays | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:56 Zambrah wrote: ZvZ was good for a while, I really liked Roach wars, what the fuck happened that turned it back into this degeneracy? Rogue happened | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
I always knew I was right to greatly dislike him | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:56 Zambrah wrote: ZvZ was good for a while, I really liked Roach wars, what the fuck happened that turned it back into this degeneracy? I used to like 'ling/bane ZvZ more, I wonder if this changed with the LotV 12 worker start? Haven't really paid that much attention to it. | ||
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HeroSandro
530 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:01 Nakajin wrote: Wait is this over? Wtf happened I barely went away a couple of minute to eat. !?!? You don't do that with Rogue playing in the finals!.. hehe | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:01 Nakajin wrote: Wait is this over? Wtf happened I barely went away a couple of minute to eat. Rogue allined every game and smashed Serral | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:01 geokilla wrote: What was the point of the gold base? lol It was Rogue's mindgame trick against Serral to make him think that he is going the gold base so Serral would prep against it. But behind it, Rogue was massing speed lings against Serral, which completely blindsided Serral | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Oh and yeah, think we can call this one a smackdown for sure. Ridiculously bad one one, but still... | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:01 swarminfestor wrote: So, Serral is now a new victim of Rogue shinnegan in final. I will bet on Rogue winning tournament if he advances to final except when he faces Maru. the Sharingan's TRUE final evolution, Shinnegan, assuring SC2 has dog shit finals full of drunken ZvZ | ||
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:03 buzz_bender wrote: Serral is so good in macro that he can beat anyone according to Rogue... didn't Maru just beat Serral in a Bo7 in macro games? I think in ZvZ macro games to be specific. | ||
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HeroSandro
530 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:03 buzz_bender wrote: Serral is so good in macro that he can beat anyone according to Rogue... didn't Maru just beat Serral in a Bo7 in macro games? He can beat anyone does not mean that he will always win | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:02 buzz_bender wrote: It was Rogue's mindgame trick against Serral to make him think that he is going the gold base so Serral would prep against it. But behind it, Rogue was massing speed lings against Serral, which completely blindsided Serral Also, even if the Ling rush got defended, Rogue can still be ahead if he can take down some drone from Serral with the additional mining from the Gold. Truly masterclass strategy. | ||
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:04 tigera6 wrote: Also, even if the Ling rush got defended, Rogue can still be ahead if he can take down some drone from Serral with the additional mining from the Gold. Truly masterclass strategy. Yups, Rogue is a true mastermind. I really wish more people appreciate this more about Rogue. His resume/trophy collection is ridiculous at the moment. | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:06 buzz_bender wrote: Yups, Rogue is a true mastermind. I really wish more people appreciate this more about Rogue. His resume/trophy collection is ridiculous at the moment. who doesn't apreciate it? that's what he is famous for | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:13 swarminfestor wrote: Kudos to Rogue. He is now the most accomplished resume player, winning all type of premier tournaments. He got all tourneys offered by Sc except just maybe WESG, Homestory Cup and King of Battles. Still waiting for the OSL, MLG, NASL and of course the mightiest of all, WCS EU | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:15 Durnuu wrote: Still waiting for the OSL, MLG, NASL and of course the mightiest of all, WCS EU They banned him from WCS Eu though. Code S has to be sufficient. | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:15 Durnuu wrote: Still waiting for the OSL, MLG, NASL and of course the mightiest of all, WCS EU Zero EPS, overrated player. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:17 deacon.frost wrote: They banned him from WCS Eu though. Code S has to be sufficient. Also never carried his team in IPL teamleague | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
He is taking it much better than I thought | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:17 deacon.frost wrote: They banned him from WCS Eu though. Code S has to be sufficient. Well if you didn’t win all WCS EU in a single year you can’t be the most dominant player in the entire StarCraft history, didn’t you know that? | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
EDIT: Solid tournament, unfortunately the bracket didnt work out the way we wanted and having too many bops at the end. I think the best match we have seen during this weekend was actually Dark vs Maru, and it was a Bo3 of all thing. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:22 Harris1st wrote: https://twitter.com/ENCE_Serral/status/1470076514515488772 He is taking it much better than I thought Serral knows he may lose to Rogue in final. Maybe from now on, he should learn some from Lambo tricky playbooks. As far as I understand at least in ZvZ perspective, Lambo is kind of Rogue in Eu region while Serral is pretty much like Dark or Soo in Kor region. Lastly, Reynor is combination Rogue and Dark in Eu region. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
Congrats to Rogue though, he's easily proven to be the most accomplished Zerg of 2021, which just adds to his resume as the best Zerg in Starcraft 2. Good run from Trap, although a typical exit from him in the Ro4 as well. A bit of a sad showing from the Terrans this tournament, but that happens from time to time. Perhaps if a new map pool comes out things will shake up. It seems to me the longer maps stay in the pool the more they'll end up benefitting Zergs since the meta always has Zerg playing a lot of defense and the longer a map stays the more Zergs figure out counters to everything the other races will do. So, new maps. New meta. New year. Let's see what happens in 2022. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 03:37 Vindicare605 wrote: These results are both unsurprising and surprising to me at the same time as I look down the bracket. A shame I wasn't able to see all of this because of my work schedule. Congrats to Rogue though, he's easily proven to be the most accomplished Zerg of 2021, which just adds to his resume as the best Zerg in Starcraft 2. Good run from Trap, although a typical exit from him in the Ro4 as well. A bit of a sad showing from the Terrans this tournament, but that happens from time to time. Perhaps if a new map pool comes out things will shake up. It seems to me the longer maps stay in the pool the more they'll end up benefitting Zergs since the meta always has Zerg playing a lot of defense and the longer a map stays the more Zergs figure out counters to everything the other races will do. So, new maps. New meta. New year. Let's see what happens in 2022. we just got new maps. I wouldn't expect the mappool to change for at least a year if at all | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 13 2021 02:04 swarminfestor wrote: I think in ZvZ macro games to be specific. There was a period where Serral was basically untouchable in ZvZ macro games, and they all largely went a similar way. Nobody was better at navigating roach wars thru lurker/viper When there’s a pretty stable meta that includes extended midgame battling into frequent lategames Serral is always going to be tough to beat. I’m not sure specifically what caused that meta to shift to something more volatile and back to being full of gambits and early knife fights, but such a scenario definitely suits a player of Rogue’s considerable skillset Grats to Rogue, although a bloody brutal last day after Serral stomped Trap, not the most enjoyable day of Starcraft but overall a great event. | ||
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Niravroh
165 Posts
It was super funny seeing how mad the twitch chat got. Rogue really elevated his villain status by taking down Serral in such a brutal fashion, especially across two separate Bo7s in one day. | ||
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 08:30 Niravroh wrote: Also, another fun fact, Rogue and Trap are now tied in terms of EPT points with 2897 each, holding a joint first place on the Korean server. Now, I am curious to see who is a leader when the Code S begins next year. Trap already got the benefit before in Code S pick despite not winning any Code S title. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 06:56 WombaT wrote: There was a period where Serral was basically untouchable in ZvZ macro games, and they all largely went a similar way. Nobody was better at navigating roach wars thru lurker/viper When there’s a pretty stable meta that includes extended midgame battling into frequent lategames Serral is always going to be tough to beat. I’m not sure specifically what caused that meta to shift to something more volatile and back to being full of gambits and early knife fights, but such a scenario definitely suits a player of Rogue’s considerable skillset Grats to Rogue, although a bloody brutal last day after Serral stomped Trap, not the most enjoyable day of Starcraft but overall a great event. Yeah, playing at late game ZvZ is some calculative risk factor that needs to be addressed by Rogue when facing a tough Zerg opponent like Serral or Dark. Having learnt that he may not has a chance to beat in longer macro series, I think it is a brilliant move by him to just end the series fast when he see the timings after blindsiding Serral. Serral is pretty dominance in late ZvP specifically and ZvZ based on his recent games with Reynor or Dark. His ZvT late games just not dominance as those two matchups when he faces Clem, who defeat him in mid games with widow mine and rines turtling and Maru who knows the best in handling TvZ late game. Meanwhile, Rogue admitted that he was not confident in ZvZ macro games and his late game against Dark in last DH Masters series proved he might not delivered it. If I am Rogue, I feel bad as I do not play honorable macro games as the audiences desire for despite that I can still win in many ways. | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
On December 13 2021 06:56 WombaT wrote: There was a period where Serral was basically untouchable in ZvZ macro games, and they all largely went a similar way. Nobody was better at navigating roach wars thru lurker/viper When there’s a pretty stable meta that includes extended midgame battling into frequent lategames Serral is always going to be tough to beat. I’m not sure specifically what caused that meta to shift to something more volatile and back to being full of gambits and early knife fights, but such a scenario definitely suits a player of Rogue’s considerable skillset Grats to Rogue, although a bloody brutal last day after Serral stomped Trap, not the most enjoyable day of Starcraft but overall a great event. IMO Mutas are just way too good in ZvZ in the recent map pools. It feels like if one player goes Mutas and the other plays macro (not even failing an all in or anything), the non-muta player is just extremely behind. This doesn't really explain all of Rogue's successful super early game all ins, but it helps explain why other top level ZvZs are so clownish. The danger of someone getting away with mutas makes everyone more all-inny. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On December 13 2021 08:30 Niravroh wrote: Also, another fun fact, Rogue and Trap are now tied in terms of EPT points with 2897 each, holding a joint first place on the Korean server. I think all 3 Trap, Rogue and Maru already got enough pts to be seeded into IEM. Serral and Clem will be fighting for the last spot but I think Serral will get it after Last Chance. | ||
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Husyelt
United States832 Posts
Disappointing final day overall, I wish the casters, (im sorry for the criticism,) would limit the amount of "storyline" talk especially when it comes to predicting the potential boring endgames. "Trap cant beat Serral, PvZ too hard in consecutive matchups" > "Rogue finals bad, Serral will probably lose 4-0 like he did to Dark" > I don't like the opposite either where its all fake hype and such, but it seems like the (albeit pretty fun,) Caster predictions from ESL, have leaked into the casts themselves. Again, sorry for the criticism, overall the tournament was dope. And maybe im in the minority and this is more of a pet peeve. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 13 2021 03:37 Vindicare605 wrote: These results are both unsurprising and surprising to me at the same time as I look down the bracket. A shame I wasn't able to see all of this because of my work schedule. Congrats to Rogue though, he's easily proven to be the most accomplished Zerg of 2021, which just adds to his resume as the best Zerg in Starcraft 2. Good run from Trap, although a typical exit from him in the Ro4 as well. A bit of a sad showing from the Terrans this tournament, but that happens from time to time. Perhaps if a new map pool comes out things will shake up. It seems to me the longer maps stay in the pool the more they'll end up benefitting Zergs since the meta always has Zerg playing a lot of defense and the longer a map stays the more Zergs figure out counters to everything the other races will do. So, new maps. New meta. New year. Let's see what happens in 2022. Part of this is also that so much of the bracket is Bo3, which is super volatile. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
Thank you TL for organizing another great event! And thank you all the sponsors and people behind the scenes for making this such fun experience! Well played! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 11:40 tigera6 wrote: I dont get why people are so upset because of what Rogue did, other than they are being Serral fanboy. I mean Terran got shit ton of early pressure build that will kill the Zerg if they dont defend properly, from Hellbat to BC rush to 3 Racks. Protoss also got the Archon-Chargelot, 6 gate Glaive, DT, ect..What Rogue did is simply forcing a response from his opponent, and use that to leverage into a long macro if it is defended. But Serral never did defend it properly, and thats why he lost. Well, partially because Serral is overhyped by foreign content creators as the foreign Messiah and the bestest player everest. So when he loses in such brutal way it just doesn't seem right. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 13 2021 13:40 Kitai wrote: I figured Rogue had Serral's number at the moment. Sad I missed the finals due to work, but grats to Rogue on another big win. He seems like *the* player to beat right now. Also I feel like one of the few that don't buy into the "Rogue villain" storyline - at this point he's just one of the all-time greats to me and should be a fan favorite in his own right! I think it’s very tongue in cheek, I imagine most have a great respect for Rogue’s chops, he just happens to play many an underwhelming series in playoffs. The memorable ones tend to be when he loses, not actually because I want him to lose but just seems to work out that way. The Classic shadow strike snipe was an epic singular gamble or the ST finals against Maru which was just a good series I think unless he drops off a bit and/or Dark and Serral push up to god mode levels for an extended period it’s difficult to argue against him as the Zerg GOAT, and he could push for the overall title. When Dark took his Blizzcon and GSL they were pretty level, with a slight bias from me with Dark but Rogue’s really put the hammer down | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On December 13 2021 19:50 WombaT wrote: I think it’s very tongue in cheek, I imagine most have a great respect for Rogue’s chops, he just happens to play many an underwhelming series in playoffs. The memorable ones tend to be when he loses, not actually because I want him to lose but just seems to work out that way. The Classic shadow strike snipe was an epic singular gamble or the ST finals against Maru which was just a good series I think unless he drops off a bit and/or Dark and Serral push up to god mode levels for an extended period it’s difficult to argue against him as the Zerg GOAT, and he could push for the overall title. When Dark took his Blizzcon and GSL they were pretty level, with a slight bias from me with Dark but Rogue’s really put the hammer down To be fair to Rogue his last finals win vs Maru was a pretty sick series With 3 world champ level titles and 3 GSLs I think it's pretty unlikely any Zerg overtakes Rogue's resume at this point. IMO he's Zerg Goat by a fair margin, and one of only two serious overall contenders. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On December 13 2021 11:40 tigera6 wrote: I dont get why people are so upset because of what Rogue did, other than they are being Serral fanboy. I mean Terran got shit ton of early pressure build that will kill the Zerg if they dont defend properly, from Hellbat to BC rush to 3 Racks. Protoss also got the Archon-Chargelot, 6 gate Glaive, DT, ect..What Rogue did is simply forcing a response from his opponent, and use that to leverage into a long macro if it is defended. But Serral never did defend it properly, and thats why he lost. Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset On December 13 2021 20:43 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: IMO he's Zerg Goat by a fair margin, and one of only two serious overall contenders. Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now Unless if Rogue takes fourth Code S title next year, he is in serious consideration. Talking about Inno, I hope he can come back after finishing his military service. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now It’s highly dependent on how you value being able to be relevant during kespa era when competition was arguably fiercer. It’s also dependent on how much you take into account balance during wins etc. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 13 2021 22:16 swarminfestor wrote: Unless if Rogue takes fourth Code S title next year, he is in serious consideration. Talking about Inno, I hope he can come back after finishing his military service. I highly doubt Inno will come back to SC2 after military considering how little he cared about it for the ~2 years before it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Who is upset? Here on TL most comments are about how hilarious and roguelike that was. If you are talking about twitch chat then newsflash, twitch chat is always upset Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now That’s a pretty tough one. Inno was better in probably the highest level, cut-throat era, Rogue has been consistently good but excellent in the current rough era, while Inno fell off the top. Too tough to call, I’d have little argument with anyone favouring one or the other, I’d still personally go Inno I think I’d give it to Rogue despite the less cutthroat competition but for Zerg being so in the ascendency in ZvP for quite some period now. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2021 22:49 WombaT wrote: That’s a pretty tough one. Inno was better in probably the highest level, cut-throat era, Rogue has been consistently good but excellent in the current rough era, while Inno fell off the top. Too tough to call, I’d have little argument with anyone favouring one or the other, I’d still personally go Inno I think I’d give it to Rogue despite the less cutthroat competition but for Zerg being so in the ascendency in ZvP for quite some period now. Rogue was one of the best Proleague players though. Also fun fact, during the Inno peak Maru beat him in one of the fastest BO7 evah xD The thing which many inno fans pretend never happen. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On December 13 2021 21:03 Harris1st wrote: Honest question: Did Rogue overtake Inno already? Last I checked Inno was one of only two serious contenders but that's probably been over a year ago now Without a doubt yes. For me Rogue is the most accomplished player in SC2 history and has the strongest claim at GOAT, but that is arguable based on how different people weigh different achievements across all the SC2 eras. | ||
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Niravroh
165 Posts
On December 13 2021 23:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Without a doubt yes. For me Rogue is the most accomplished player in SC2 history and has the strongest claim at GOAT, but that is arguable based on how different people weigh different achievements across all the SC2 eras. I think it's always going to come down to whether you value accolades of what the player has won, or if you value their baseline performance level in how likely they are to win against anybody on any day. Rogue I think has a strong claim to best accolades, but his baseline form is not very high. He can lose to B-tier players in random tournys he doesn't care about, but then he can also make literally anyone look like a clown if it's in a long series he's prepared for. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On December 14 2021 02:33 Niravroh wrote: I think it's always going to come down to whether you value accolades of what the player has won, or if you value their baseline performance level in how likely they are to win against anybody on any day. Rogue I think has a strong claim to best accolades, but his baseline form is not very high. He can lose to B-tier players in random tournys he doesn't care about, but then he can also make literally anyone look like a clown if it's in a long series he's prepared for. Yeah, thats true. We could try doing a hexagon for top 3 or top 5 players with criteria such as peak skill/performance, achievements, consistency, longevity and some other stuff which could be of use to evaluate. Each of those would have max points based on how important that attribute is to decide who is the best. Could be fun | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 14 2021 02:33 Niravroh wrote: I think it's always going to come down to whether you value accolades of what the player has won, or if you value their baseline performance level in how likely they are to win against anybody on any day. Rogue I think has a strong claim to best accolades, but his baseline form is not very high. He can lose to B-tier players in random tournys he doesn't care about, but then he can also make literally anyone look like a clown if it's in a long series he's prepared for. Peak level - Maru Finding a way to win/clutch factor - Rogue Baseline level - Serral Underdog factor - Mvp Maru for me, when he’s playing his best is just the best SC2 player ever, in a pure skill factor. He does jaw-dropping things with regularity, but not always. When it comes to digging a win out via whatever means are needed, Rogue, 100%. Be it supreme preparation, be it abusing an imba meta, or just playing like a god, Rogue can pull it all off. Serral is basically never outright bad ever, even in a rare 3-0 defeat all of the individual sets will be 51/49 against him. Not going to argue he’s the GOAT by any means but I think it’s fair to say he’s brutally consistent I have to mention Mvp for bias sake, but some of the scalps he obtained with pure brains and strats purely through strategy, after an initial period where he was the best mechanically ate impressive. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On December 14 2021 03:28 WombaT wrote: Peak level - Maru Finding a way to win/clutch factor - Rogue Baseline level - Serral Underdog factor - Mvp I think that is a pretty good way to look at it. I personally will always be fond of Rogue. He is a fascinating player in every way. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 14 2021 07:56 [PkF] Wire wrote: I think that is a pretty good way to look at it. I personally will always be fond of Rogue. He is a fascinating player in every way. He’s a great fucking player, anyone claiming otherwise is a lunatic. | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
On December 14 2021 09:44 Obamarauder wrote: anyone have the interview where maru said rogue is the best zerg | ||
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
On December 14 2021 09:44 Obamarauder wrote: anyone have the interview where maru said rogue is the best zerg Are you looking for a specific interview? Maru has said that in several interviews spread out over several years. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On December 13 2021 23:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Without a doubt yes. For me Rogue is the most accomplished player in SC2 history and has the strongest claim at GOAT, but that is arguable based on how different people weigh different achievements across all the SC2 eras. if you just look at the names of the tournaments he won without any context he has the most impressive trophy collection. However I don't think you can equal a GSL in 2021 to a GSL in 2015 as back then it just had a way stronger lineup. Adding context to their titles I think Maru is ahead of him as he won 2 Starleagues during the Kespa era. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 15 2021 07:41 Charoisaur wrote: if you just look at the names of the tournaments he won without any context he has the most impressive trophy collection. However I don't think you can equal a GSL in 2021 to a GSL in 2015 as back then it just had a way stronger lineup. Adding context to their titles I think Maru is ahead of him as he won 2 Starleagues during the Kespa era. Even the GSL roster way into the post-Kespa era had considerably more depth than it does now. Bracket luck, especially in favourable racial matchups is going to be a thing regardless of the field. Nowadays it’s pretty huge as a factor because there are pretty huge gaps in quality. Previously you might dodge a nemesis, or you might get your stronger matchups, ultimately you still had to run a gauntlet of players who are pretty close to your level. Now you might only meet one or two real championship calibre folks in a title winning run. Didn’t actually work out last season but Dark exiting along with Maru in the round of 8, and Zest taking out Rogue kind of was the perfect bracket to see a Protoss championship Though it didn’t exactly work out for us Protoss I mean I think it does illustrate the lack of depth and bracket’s importance. You’ve got Dark playing Rogue and Trap against Maru in the Ro8 and you’re already losing 2/4 best players in the field. And not just best players but best by a fair distance (in general) This isn’t to take away from Rogue, you can only defeat what’s in front of you, and we’ve seen some other changes in the scene. The World Championships have previously gated off Koreans who were better than the foreigners who got to go, whereas nowadays you’ve got genuine S class foreigners/less in Korea, so to run the Katowice gauntlet you really are having to peak and beat the best in the world in a way you didn’t in the past | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
This isn’t to take away from Rogue, you can only defeat what’s in front of you, and we’ve seen some other changes in the scene. he played throughout the Kespa era though and didn't win anything. The World Championships have previously gated off Koreans who were better than the foreigners who got to go, only from 2016 on. in the HotS era at most 1 foreigner made it to Blizzcon. and Katowice never had fixed spots for foreigners | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
But if we start to factor in stats like consistency, longevity, peak performance, its quite close between the trifecta Maru, Rogue Inno with Maru probably having and edge due to him being a contender across all eras and just pure skill wise being the best of them. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On December 15 2021 08:32 Charoisaur wrote: he played throughout the Kespa era though and didn't win anything. only from 2016 on. in the HotS era at most 1 foreigner made it to Blizzcon. and Katowice never had fixed spots for foreigners I think he’s got better though, albeit at the same time the level of competition has also dropped. I think this incarnation of Rogue, Trap or Serral especially of 2018 vintage would have been extremely competitive in the Kespa times, indeed it’s possible that they’re maybe liberated by that regime ending. There have been many incarnations of Blizzcon format wise, maybe I’m getting my wires crossed. If memory serves you had many years where ‘foreign’ Koreans took a lot of slots, when the creme de la creme were realistically basically all in GSL, least with Blizzcon My memory is failing in old age though no doubt! | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
As always, thanks to Liquipedia, which makes it possible to find bits of info on anything and everything. | ||
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