[GSL] Super Tournament 3 - Day 3

On November 29 2021 17:09 Mozdk wrote:
Anyone getting buffering on youtube? The streams have been fine the other days.

On November 29 2021 17:13 Durnuu wrote:
This matchup just does not disappoint

On November 29 2021 19:02 Whatson wrote:
So from what the commentators said, Trap is the best PvT in the world? I hope that was just a terrible series from him, or else the level of Protoss players has fallen quite a bit in the past year.

On November 29 2021 19:07 Durnuu wrote:

There is also Zest, but current Zest is in a mega slump after his GSL finals and even before he was so inconsistent it was hard calling him the best PvTer

On November 29 2021 19:18 Durnuu wrote:
These guys are playing like foreigners

On November 29 2021 19:35 Elentos wrote:
Imagine how bad Zoun's build must be to lose hard even with disruptor shots like that

On November 29 2021 19:46 DBooN wrote:
So is it fair to say protoss is in trouble, when they can't even make it to ro4 in Super Tournament?

On November 29 2021 19:46 DBooN wrote:
So is it fair to say protoss is in trouble, when they can't even make it to ro4 in Super Tournament?

On November 29 2021 20:53 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Despite getting swept by Maru, both herO and Classic make me quite hopeful for some fiercer protoss resistance in the next year

On November 29 2021 20:56 dbRic1203 wrote:

Thats why I watch GSL with the EU Pro gamer comentary, they called that last game like 15min ago

On November 29 2021 18:57 swarminfestor wrote:
How much TvP streak Cure has recorded till now?

On November 30 2021 03:15 JJH777 wrote:
Protoss underperformance is getting concerning fast. Obviously they've been underperforming for a long time in terms of trophies but they've always been fine in terms of ro8/ro4 representation and making it to the finals. For the last few months they've just been doing outright atrocious on every metric besides GM representation.

On November 30 2021 08:51 Xain0n wrote:
Before the rise(in chronological order) of Rogue, Serral, Dark(who was already world class in 2016 but had collected significantly second places than successes) and Reynor, Zerg was by far the race with the least victories at "Premier" level; if we exclude the first BL Infestor era in 2012, Zerg as a race had never really been dominant in Sc2.

Zerg really needed an influx of new top tier players capable of actually winning championships; the real problem was the second BL Infestor era in 2019 which, coupled with very unwise nerfs to Protoss, lead to months of nauseating domination.
Zerg have also enjoyed favourable map pools in these last years of LoTV, with some notable exceptions in 2020.

On November 30 2021 08:51 Xain0n wrote:
Before the rise(in chronological order) of Rogue, Serral, Dark(who was already world class in 2016 but had collected significantly second places than successes) and Reynor, Zerg was by far the race with the least victories at "Premier" level; if we exclude the first BL Infestor era in 2012, Zerg as a race had never really been dominant in Sc2.

Zerg really needed an influx of new top tier players capable of actually winning championships; the real problem was the second BL Infestor era in 2019 which, coupled with very unwise nerfs to Protoss, lead to months of nauseating domination.
Zerg have also enjoyed favourable map pools in these last years of LoTV, with some notable exceptions in 2020.

On November 30 2021 20:12 Poopi wrote:

What would be the reason though?
We were a lot to think 2019 happened because blizzard wanted foreigners to succeed, did they think Serral and Reynor would be the most likely to profit of advantages because terran was too hard for foreigners? Or were foreign protoss players not as marketable?
But indeed, I can accept that 2012 was a "mistake" and since HotS was in development, they could not focus too much in time on it. But LotV is the last extension so 2019 is not fortuitous.

On November 30 2021 19:28 Vindicare605 wrote:


Oh there you go introducing measurable facts into an argument I thought was already lock solid measurable. How dare you?

Even if there WERE tiny situations where Zerg was at a disadvantage, Blizzard didn't let that slip for long. The Blink meta vs Terran. Infestor Broodlord. The fact the queen needed to be nerfed 3 fucking times in the most recent balance patch..... NYDUS WORMS! HELLO!

All point to a clear bias in how and when the game gets patched. Protoss has an OP build against Zerg? 2-3 months. Zerg has an obvious overpowered late game vs Protoss complete with a unit combination you already were FORCED to nerf 10 fucking years ago? We'll just let this ride out till the end of the year.

The standards are completely lopsided. And the facts prove it, when you look at the data. I'm sick of trying to convince people of the bias. It's there in black and white if someone actually WANTS to find it. Zerg got VERY preferential treatment in terms of Balance Patches for a VERY long while. I watched a niche Terran build that Slayers team introduced get gutted in ONE WEEKENED because it embarassed the hell out of the foreign Zerg players at that tournament. I watched that happen.

Zerg has been protected. FOR A LONG TIME. From the long arm of the balance nerf bat. I've seen it for a long time. It's about time that ended.

On November 30 2021 20:52 Xain0n wrote:
Numbers, you say? Here you have.

According to Liquipedia, Zerg's collective earnings in Sc2 are just above 13 millions of dollars compared to the 11 of protoss and 10.5 of Terran; tracking them back to 2017 we find out that, after Rogue's victory at BlizzCon, Zerg players have earned approximately 1.6 millions more than both Protoss and Terran in four years.
So yes, Zerg were already ahead in earnings at the time but by a relatively small margin; take into consideration that foreigners had a significant role in this, being Zerg overwhelmingly the most successful race outside of Korea.

As for tournament victories, at the moment Zerg and Terran share the same number of Premier trophies(98 to 98 but with Zerg having 118 second places to 68), a single trophy ahead of Protoss with 97.
Going back to Rogue's BlizzCon, we find out that Zerg at the time had 28 Premier titles less than Protoss and 25 less than Terran so we can easily state that Zerg was BY FAR the least decorated race at the highest level.

The idea of Blizzard favoring Zerg in order to agevolate the foreigners is simply ridicolous while complaining about Protoss being nerfed in 2019 when everyone and their mothers(on this forum as well) were crying about certain builds being oppressive, after a single Protoss infested Super Tournament, seems out of place.
Blizzard heard the cries and nerfed Protoss, the race everyone loves to hate and the result was the second BL Infestor era...

On November 30 2021 02:12 Vindicare605 wrote:
Missed on Dark and Trap. Trap has definitely fallen from his streak of being the most elite Protoss in the world. Dark vs Rogue is always a toss up.

Either way. Not doing good on my bets this season at all.

Probably going to be another Maru vs Rogue final.

On December 01 2021 05:41 Vindicare605 wrote:


Oh please, they might not do it anymore (because Blizzard doesn't even promote the game anymore) but they DEFINITELY were doing it in 2012.

Scarlett and Stephano are beating Koreans! That's all anyone cared about, that was all the narrative was about. It didn't matter HOW they were doing it, just that they were doing it and that the gap was closing.

That's all Blizzard would promote and that's all the casters would ever talk about.

Nevermind how you have horrific ZvZ finals in GSL with fucking Sniper of all people winning Code S or IPL finals where you have Brood Lord vs Brood Lord fights. Does anyone else remember that shit?!

There's a reason we have a nickname for "Patch Zergs" and not for any other race.

That shit used to be BLATANT. There's a reason I'm still pissed about it. Blizzard marketed their own game during the era that is widely considered to be the most broken on the backs of promoting foreigners defeating Koreans. I was there, I saw it. We all saw it.

On December 01 2021 08:26 Vindicare605 wrote:


2010 and 2011 had more foreigner success because GSL players weren't traveling to foreign events yet. Every time one of the powerhouses of the GSL made an appearance in those tournaments they'd win. Stephano was the first player to show he could actually kick it with the best the GSL had to offer.