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Germany3367 Posts
On July 08 2021 22:50 tigera6 wrote:
Also, team NV is F with the GSL schedule, all 3 of their guys playing on Monday, and the WTL final day is this Sunday. This is bothering the shit out of me when tournaments cant coordinate among themselves.
Well, WTL already avoided DH Season Finals and moved away from their original schedule because of TSL. At some point they have to play it out. It's really hard to not clash with something nowadays. Not that I disagree with you, it's just the unfortunate reality.
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Predictable results. a shame for Solar. Dude can't catch a break. Disappointing result from Special. I didn't expect him to advance today but I also didn't expect an 0-4 result. Tough group.
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On July 08 2021 22:06 ShakeFishAtSky wrote:
Is it fair to Solar？That's a serious bug
No. It isn't.
Map makers / testers missed a serious exploit and he got an autoloss in a competitive game because of it.
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On July 08 2021 22:55 TheOneAboveU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2021 22:50 tigera6 wrote:
Also, team NV is F with the GSL schedule, all 3 of their guys playing on Monday, and the WTL final day is this Sunday. This is bothering the shit out of me when tournaments cant coordinate among themselves. Well, WTL already avoided DH Season Finals and moved away from their original schedule because of TSL. At some point they have to play it out. It's really hard to not clash with something nowadays. Not that I disagree with you, it's just the unfortunate reality.
Olimoleague ceased in its weekly form and Wardi refrained from creating new tournaments due to overabundance of competitions going on right now; it's not easy to find an ideal schedule.
I'm also yet to understand how would they be screwed when the games don't overlap and there are dozen of hours between the matches; not to mention Bunny and DRG face each other.
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When did Special lose all that weight? I always wondered how he managed to stay heavy in Korea.
Good for him. Bummer about the games though.
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On July 08 2021 23:37 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2021 22:55 TheOneAboveU wrote:On July 08 2021 22:50 tigera6 wrote:
Also, team NV is F with the GSL schedule, all 3 of their guys playing on Monday, and the WTL final day is this Sunday. This is bothering the shit out of me when tournaments cant coordinate among themselves. Well, WTL already avoided DH Season Finals and moved away from their original schedule because of TSL. At some point they have to play it out. It's really hard to not clash with something nowadays. Not that I disagree with you, it's just the unfortunate reality. Olimoleague ceased in its weekly form and Wardi refrained from creating new tournaments due to overabundance of competitions going on right now; it's not easy to find an ideal schedule. I'm also yet to understand how would they be screwed when the games don't overlap and there are dozen of hours between the matches; not to mention Bunny and DRG face each other.
Its called "preparation" which is a real thing in GSL. Bunny and DRG probably still have to practice for their matches regardless of being on the same team. And you also dont want to give too much effort and build the day before you play without compromising the overall result of the team.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Haven't seen all games but wanted to comment on Solar vs Parting game 2.
That's not how you beat proxy immortal battery. You don't counter atack that's a waste of time.
You make queens like crazy, lings, Spines and banelings. The banelings are to focus the batteries. You do not make roach ravager, that's what the protoss want's you to do.
That or make a far expantion and rush to mutas.
The zerg needs to understand that specially at first it's hard for the protoss to push. You cann't break the hold but the protoss cannot push much either. This gives you time.
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On July 09 2021 01:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Haven't seen all games but wanted to comment on Solar vs Parting game 2.
That's not how you beat proxy immortal battery. You don't counter atack that's a waste of time.
You make queens like crazy, lings, Spines and banelings. The banelings are to focus the batteries. You do not make roach ravager, that's what the protoss want's you to do.
That or make a far expantion and rush to mutas.
The zerg needs to understand that specially at first it's hard for the protoss to push. You cann't break the hold but the protoss cannot push much either. This gives you time.
I've not seen Banes used succesfully against that build one time.
The best response I've seen to that build is to just tech to Nydus. You can counterattack, force a recall or just migrate everything through there and rebuild somewhere else where all the Protoss buildings are useless.
Dark and Rogue have done this a few times succesfully.
but yeah, Ling Queen should definitely be used instead of Roach Ravager
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On July 08 2021 23:29 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2021 22:06 ShakeFishAtSky wrote:
Is it fair to Solar？That's a serious bug No. It isn't. Map makers / testers missed a serious exploit and he got an autoloss in a competitive game because of it.
What happened?
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On July 09 2021 03:14 Kitai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2021 23:29 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 08 2021 22:06 ShakeFishAtSky wrote:
Is it fair to Solar？That's a serious bug No. It isn't. Map makers / testers missed a serious exploit and he got an autoloss in a competitive game because of it. What happened?
The bottom of the ramp into the main base on Oblivion can be blocked with a single pylon (that exposes very little surface area).
Parting did this block vs Solar, and followed it up with the usual cannon / shield battery nonsense (and I think a stargate?).
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Canada8989 Posts
On July 09 2021 03:23 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2021 03:14 Kitai wrote:On July 08 2021 23:29 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 08 2021 22:06 ShakeFishAtSky wrote:
Is it fair to Solar？That's a serious bug No. It isn't. Map makers / testers missed a serious exploit and he got an autoloss in a competitive game because of it. What happened? The bottom of the ramp into the main base on Oblivion can be blocked with a single pylon (that exposes very little surface area). Parting did this block vs Solar, and followed it up with the usual cannon / shield battery nonsense (and I think a stargate?).
Oh wow...
I'd be so pissed if I was Solar.
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On July 09 2021 03:33 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2021 03:23 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 09 2021 03:14 Kitai wrote:On July 08 2021 23:29 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 08 2021 22:06 ShakeFishAtSky wrote:
Is it fair to Solar？That's a serious bug No. It isn't. Map makers / testers missed a serious exploit and he got an autoloss in a competitive game because of it. What happened? The bottom of the ramp into the main base on Oblivion can be blocked with a single pylon (that exposes very little surface area). Parting did this block vs Solar, and followed it up with the usual cannon / shield battery nonsense (and I think a stargate?). Oh wow... I'd be so pissed if I was Solar.
That said, Solar didn't seem especially prepared vs cannon rushes. Game two didn't have the exploit and he died almost as hard. Really wasn't his series.
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On July 09 2021 03:41 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2021 03:33 Nakajin wrote:On July 09 2021 03:23 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 09 2021 03:14 Kitai wrote:On July 08 2021 23:29 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On July 08 2021 22:06 ShakeFishAtSky wrote:
Is it fair to Solar？That's a serious bug No. It isn't. Map makers / testers missed a serious exploit and he got an autoloss in a competitive game because of it. What happened? The bottom of the ramp into the main base on Oblivion can be blocked with a single pylon (that exposes very little surface area). Parting did this block vs Solar, and followed it up with the usual cannon / shield battery nonsense (and I think a stargate?). Oh wow... I'd be so pissed if I was Solar. That said, Solar didn't seem especially prepared vs cannon rushes. Game two didn't have the exploit and he died almost as hard. Really wasn't his series.
reminds me of that time Byun beat NesTea with a 2 bunker block at the bottom of the ramp, because Byun noticed that GSL was using the wrong version of the map that was missing the rubble
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On July 09 2021 01:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Haven't seen all games but wanted to comment on Solar vs Parting game 2.
That's not how you beat proxy immortal battery. You don't counter atack that's a waste of time.
You make queens like crazy, lings, Spines and banelings. The banelings are to focus the batteries. You do not make roach ravager, that's what the protoss want's you to do.
That or make a far expantion and rush to mutas.
The zerg needs to understand that specially at first it's hard for the protoss to push. You cann't break the hold but the protoss cannot push much either. This gives you time.
This is terrible advice
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Mexico2170 Posts
Well I'm not a pro, so yeah maybe my advice doesn't apply to everyone. I'll jut say I've never lost a game where I've proxied immortal batteries agaisn't roach ravager (unless I missclick my prism like an idiot and lose it with two immortals).
The only games I've lost with it is when they have gone queen/ling/bane spine and focused the batteries with the banelings (specially early on). Or when they have gone mutas. Nydus is actually a good option too. I've never lost to a counter atack either, it just makes it easier for me to push as they have less units.
But well, I guess that might just be my games, probably in Master different, as I'm only Diamond 2.
Also, finished watching the games. Funny how Special played so bad that last game that casters wouldn't possibly believe that he just wasn't making scs for like 4 minutes. It seems he tried to do a 2 base all in push with a fake 3rd expantion (well, real expantion but just fakes that he would saturate it), but then his push never came until waay too late.
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Abhorrent organizing by GSL. Really poor quality control on new maps, Solar should have gotten a regame instantly.
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On July 09 2021 15:09 Morbidius wrote:
Abhorrent organizing by GSL. Really poor quality control on new maps, Solar should have gotten a regame instantly.
Solar getting a redo would have been wildly unfair. It's not like Parting broke any rules by doing what he did, and that would have been all his prep down the drain. Every player had the same opportunities to discover the issue.
Also labeling one issue getting through as "abhorrent" and "really poor" seems a bit harsh. They should have caught it, sure. But the issue hasn't come up before and wouldn't come up at all if Blizzard did basic game maintenance.
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On July 09 2021 05:09 [Phantom] wrote:
Well I'm not a pro, so yeah maybe my advice doesn't apply to everyone. I'll jut say I've never lost a game where I've proxied immortal batteries agaisn't roach ravager (unless I missclick my prism like an idiot and lose it with two immortals).
The only games I've lost with it is when they have gone queen/ling/bane spine and focused the batteries with the banelings (specially early on). Or when they have gone mutas. Nydus is actually a good option too. I've never lost to a counter atack either, it just makes it easier for me to push as they have less units.
But well, I guess that might just be my games, probably in Master different, as I'm only Diamond 2.
Also, finished watching the games. Funny how Special played so bad that last game that casters wouldn't possibly believe that he just wasn't making scs for like 4 minutes. It seems he tried to do a 2 base all in push with a fake 3rd expantion (well, real expantion but just fakes that he would saturate it), but then his push never came until waay too late.
Special did a two base saturation all in. Its sad, that even not the casters didnt mention / understood that. It shows how low level they are in theory-craft (but i still like their casting most of the time). Its easily shown with the early 6. rax btw. Even diamond - master players should see the difference in building timings.
Beside Solars great macro, the slow pushing was a problem for special. When he first arrived Solar just had slow banelings! If he would have had a killer instinct he would have pushed much more aggressiv. But all terran player know: pushing fast on creep can back-fire real fast! ;-)
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 09 2021 15:53 DarkGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2021 05:09 [Phantom] wrote:
Well I'm not a pro, so yeah maybe my advice doesn't apply to everyone. I'll jut say I've never lost a game where I've proxied immortal batteries agaisn't roach ravager (unless I missclick my prism like an idiot and lose it with two immortals).
The only games I've lost with it is when they have gone queen/ling/bane spine and focused the batteries with the banelings (specially early on). Or when they have gone mutas. Nydus is actually a good option too. I've never lost to a counter atack either, it just makes it easier for me to push as they have less units.
But well, I guess that might just be my games, probably in Master different, as I'm only Diamond 2.
Also, finished watching the games. Funny how Special played so bad that last game that casters wouldn't possibly believe that he just wasn't making scs for like 4 minutes. It seems he tried to do a 2 base all in push with a fake 3rd expantion (well, real expantion but just fakes that he would saturate it), but then his push never came until waay too late. Special did a two base saturation all in. Its sad, that even not the casters didnt mention / understood that. It shows how low level they are in theory-craft (but i still like their casting most of the time). Its easily shown with the early 6. rax btw. Even diamond - master players should see the difference in building timings. Beside Solars great macro, the slow pushing was a problem for special. When he first arrived Solar just had slow banelings! If he would have had a killer instinct he would have pushed much more aggressiv. But all terran player know: pushing fast on creep can back-fire real fast! ;-)
They don't play the SC2 and haven't for a long time. So they miss a lot of stuff no matter how good at BW they are.
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On July 09 2021 15:51 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2021 15:09 Morbidius wrote:
Abhorrent organizing by GSL. Really poor quality control on new maps, Solar should have gotten a regame instantly. Solar getting a redo would have been wildly unfair. It's not like Parting broke any rules by doing what he did, and that would have been all his prep down the drain. Every player had the same opportunities to discover the issue. Also labeling one issue getting through as "abhorrent" and "really poor" seems a bit harsh. They should have caught it, sure. But the issue hasn't come up before and wouldn't come up at all if Blizzard did basic game maintenance.
Just No, exploits are not fair just the first time and then they are exploits, exploits are exploits from the get go.
If PartinG had discovered that exploit he should have informed the GSL instead of using it to his own advantage. I am very surprised GSL didn't rule out the game and that Solar didn't complain.
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EPT
