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Canada8991 Posts
And here we are, sOs finding a way to ruin the day.
The Maru-Clem games definitely delivered at least
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Maru is just too good at TvT
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On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT
The first game was too close. It just that Clem's proxy starport gave him some time advantage and Maru react slowly to spread his SCVs at the beginning of game when dropping his helions at the same time. Even behind by the shortage of SCVs, Maru still can catch up to Clem' air & upgrade advantages later.
The 2nd game was pretty forward on Maru's capitalizing his massive Ravens to counter Clem's air controls.
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On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT
TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT.
Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks.
Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage.
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On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage.
It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense.
TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about.
And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well.
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On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well.
Maru's fanbois...
Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"?
Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well.
Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once.
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On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage.
True, TY is a really smart player and really good in TvT. He exploits much better knowing how a player plays than any other programer, which shows a lot vs korean terrans, including maru , and not so much vs any other terrans. Problem for TY is that he falls flatter than Maru in any other category but in the head to head record.
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On May 17 2021 01:29 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well. Maru's fanbois... Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"? Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well. Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once.
And you are not a Clem/Serral fanboy? Lets keep name-calling each other because that REALLY help our case, damn kid are sensitive.
Game 1 was a close one DESPITE Clem took a huge lead, and it should not be that close if Clem is that good in TvT like you are making him to be.
And you were the one who bring up "he shine more in TvT", so can I consider that as sleight to Maru TvP? Damn right I can. If you dont want other to mis-understand what you wrote, clear it up.
TY TvT is the best overall, but his late game is not matching Maru, both can be true. His GSL Final and IEM victory over Maru was mostly on mid-game advantage, and he kept that advatage to the end rather nicely. If both sides head into lategame with the same position, I would still favor Maru. If you dont agree with that, maybe just show me TY late game TvT prowress with superior compostion and micro-ability.
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@Xain0n calm down, there is a discussion between Clem and Maru, nothing to do with TY. Even thought TY has only 56% of maps against Maru (1-1 in GSL finals), saying that "TY heavily disagree" is incorrect.
Back to today series: In game 1, Clem cheesed and took a huge lead, even there playing from behind Maru was very close to end the game .
In game 2 Maru just outplayed Clem
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On May 17 2021 02:12 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 01:29 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well. Maru's fanbois... Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"? Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well. Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once. And you are not a Clem/Serral fanboy? Lets keep name-calling each other because that REALLY help our case, damn kid are sensitive. Game 1 was a close one DESPITE Clem took a huge lead, and it should not be that close if Clem is that good in TvT like you are making him to be. And you were the one who bring up "he shine more in TvT", so can I consider that as sleight to Maru TvP? Damn right I can. If you dont want other to mis-understand what you wrote, clear it up. TY TvT is the best overall, but his late game is not matching Maru, both can be true. His GSL Final and IEM victory over Maru was mostly on mid-game advantage, and he kept that advatage to the end rather nicely. If both sides head into lategame with the same position, I would still favor Maru. If you dont agree with that, maybe just show me TY late game TvT prowress with superior compostion and micro-ability.
I, for sure, don't claim Serral or Clem to be too good in a certain matchup when they go 1-1 in a bo2.
Clem's TvT results in 2021 seem to indicate that's he is either the 3rd or the 4th in the matchup, roughly on par with Cure and above Byun and Dream; stylistically, also, he's extremely aggressive and strong in the early-mid game so I confirm that, while Maru is better in TvT and stronger in the lategame, Clem is too good to effectively waste an advantage like the one he had in that game.
You can understand whatever you want or can but it I have clearly written that MAYBE Maru's lategame prowess shines MORE in TvT because of the matchup favoring comebacks more than the others; Maru has been plain steamrolling people in TvP this year just as you said, there was no reason to assume the lack of mention of Maru's TvP was indicative of anything.
I am pretty sure TY beat Maru in their last Code S finals in at least one game with Raven/Vikings or BCs/Vikings.
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Canada8991 Posts
On May 17 2021 02:46 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 02:12 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 01:29 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well. Maru's fanbois... Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"? Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well. Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once. And you are not a Clem/Serral fanboy? Lets keep name-calling each other because that REALLY help our case, damn kid are sensitive. Game 1 was a close one DESPITE Clem took a huge lead, and it should not be that close if Clem is that good in TvT like you are making him to be. And you were the one who bring up "he shine more in TvT", so can I consider that as sleight to Maru TvP? Damn right I can. If you dont want other to mis-understand what you wrote, clear it up. TY TvT is the best overall, but his late game is not matching Maru, both can be true. His GSL Final and IEM victory over Maru was mostly on mid-game advantage, and he kept that advatage to the end rather nicely. If both sides head into lategame with the same position, I would still favor Maru. If you dont agree with that, maybe just show me TY late game TvT prowress with superior compostion and micro-ability. I, for sure, don't claim Serral or Clem to be too good in a certain matchup when they go 1-1 in a bo2. Clem's TvT results in 2021 seem to indicate that's he is either the 3rd or the 4th in the matchup, roughly on par with Cure and above Byun and Dream; stylistically, also, he's extremely aggressive and strong in the early-mid game so I confirm that, while Maru is better in TvT and stronger in the lategame, Clem is too good to effectively waste an advantage like the one he had in that game. You can understand whatever you want or can but it I have clearly written that MAYBE Maru's lategame prowess shines MORE in TvT because of the matchup favoring comebacks more than the others; Maru has been plain steamrolling people in TvP this year just as you said, there was no reason to assume the lack of mention of Maru's TvP was indicative of anything. I am pretty sure TY beat Maru in their last Code S finals in at least one game with Raven/Vikings or BCs/Vikings.
Y'all are sleeping on INno tvt!
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On May 17 2021 02:46 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 02:12 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 01:29 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well. Maru's fanbois... Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"? Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well. Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once. And you are not a Clem/Serral fanboy? Lets keep name-calling each other because that REALLY help our case, damn kid are sensitive. Game 1 was a close one DESPITE Clem took a huge lead, and it should not be that close if Clem is that good in TvT like you are making him to be. And you were the one who bring up "he shine more in TvT", so can I consider that as sleight to Maru TvP? Damn right I can. If you dont want other to mis-understand what you wrote, clear it up. TY TvT is the best overall, but his late game is not matching Maru, both can be true. His GSL Final and IEM victory over Maru was mostly on mid-game advantage, and he kept that advatage to the end rather nicely. If both sides head into lategame with the same position, I would still favor Maru. If you dont agree with that, maybe just show me TY late game TvT prowress with superior compostion and micro-ability. I, for sure, don't claim Serral or Clem to be too good in a certain matchup when they go 1-1 in a bo2. Clem's TvT results in 2021 seem to indicate that's he is either the 3rd or the 4th in the matchup, roughly on par with Cure and above Byun and Dream; stylistically, also, he's extremely aggressive and strong in the early-mid game so I confirm that, while Maru is better in TvT and stronger in the lategame, Clem is too good to effectively waste an advantage like the one he had in that game. You can understand whatever you want or can but it I have clearly written that MAYBE Maru's lategame prowess shines MORE in TvT because of the matchup favoring comebacks more than the others; Maru has been plain steamrolling people in TvP this year just as you said, there was no reason to assume the lack of mention of Maru's TvP was indicative of anything. I am pretty sure TY beat Maru in their last Code S finals in at least one game with Raven/Vikings or BCs/Vikings.
Clem did waste his advantage in game 1 today though. Maru just didn't realize how good his position was and didn't back off. If after the initial part of the base trade where Maru was up like 50 supply he had just went back home with everything and cleared his natural then Clem was totally dead. Maru would have had an upgrade lead, 40+ scv lead, and roughly equal army. Which is insane considering how that game was going before the base trade.
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On May 17 2021 02:59 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 02:46 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 02:12 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 01:29 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well. Maru's fanbois... Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"? Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well. Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once. And you are not a Clem/Serral fanboy? Lets keep name-calling each other because that REALLY help our case, damn kid are sensitive. Game 1 was a close one DESPITE Clem took a huge lead, and it should not be that close if Clem is that good in TvT like you are making him to be. And you were the one who bring up "he shine more in TvT", so can I consider that as sleight to Maru TvP? Damn right I can. If you dont want other to mis-understand what you wrote, clear it up. TY TvT is the best overall, but his late game is not matching Maru, both can be true. His GSL Final and IEM victory over Maru was mostly on mid-game advantage, and he kept that advatage to the end rather nicely. If both sides head into lategame with the same position, I would still favor Maru. If you dont agree with that, maybe just show me TY late game TvT prowress with superior compostion and micro-ability. I, for sure, don't claim Serral or Clem to be too good in a certain matchup when they go 1-1 in a bo2. Clem's TvT results in 2021 seem to indicate that's he is either the 3rd or the 4th in the matchup, roughly on par with Cure and above Byun and Dream; stylistically, also, he's extremely aggressive and strong in the early-mid game so I confirm that, while Maru is better in TvT and stronger in the lategame, Clem is too good to effectively waste an advantage like the one he had in that game. You can understand whatever you want or can but it I have clearly written that MAYBE Maru's lategame prowess shines MORE in TvT because of the matchup favoring comebacks more than the others; Maru has been plain steamrolling people in TvP this year just as you said, there was no reason to assume the lack of mention of Maru's TvP was indicative of anything. I am pretty sure TY beat Maru in their last Code S finals in at least one game with Raven/Vikings or BCs/Vikings. Y'all are sleeping on INno tvt!
with the power of hindsight... no we dont.
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Canada8991 Posts
On May 17 2021 21:49 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2021 02:59 Nakajin wrote:On May 17 2021 02:46 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 02:12 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 01:29 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:53 tigera6 wrote:On May 17 2021 00:42 Xain0n wrote:On May 17 2021 00:15 Argonauta wrote:
Maru is just too good at TvT TY heavily disagrees, he's the real master of TvT. Maru is insanely good with lategame Terran armies in every matchup, he shines maybe more in TvT but I guess that's because it's more likely to allow comebacks. Clem is no Heromarine, he won't lose from such a significant advantage. It was a pretty damn close game 1, and Clem could have lost it as well. Acting like Clem was in no way of losing after taking that huge lead, is just simply non-sense. TY is more into the mid-game, and even when he beat Maru it was mostly base on the mid-game. And you acting like Maru mid-game is a joke or something, lol. He might not have the strongest mid-game but he almost never die except to all-in that he didnt know about. And Maru was not just about TvT, the man havent lost a single TvP series in 2021, yet you dont say anything about that is also funny as well. Maru's fanbois... Where do you get that I think Maru's midgame is a joke? Also, why should I speak about Maru's TvP when I am replying to "Maru's TvT is too good"? Game 1 was closer than it should have been because of how good Maru is but Clem won it nevertheless because, guess what, he's incredibly strong as well. Maru will be the best TvT player around once TY is in the army; it's also not like TY couldn't beat Maru in a lategame scenario, it has happened more than once. And you are not a Clem/Serral fanboy? Lets keep name-calling each other because that REALLY help our case, damn kid are sensitive. Game 1 was a close one DESPITE Clem took a huge lead, and it should not be that close if Clem is that good in TvT like you are making him to be. And you were the one who bring up "he shine more in TvT", so can I consider that as sleight to Maru TvP? Damn right I can. If you dont want other to mis-understand what you wrote, clear it up. TY TvT is the best overall, but his late game is not matching Maru, both can be true. His GSL Final and IEM victory over Maru was mostly on mid-game advantage, and he kept that advatage to the end rather nicely. If both sides head into lategame with the same position, I would still favor Maru. If you dont agree with that, maybe just show me TY late game TvT prowress with superior compostion and micro-ability. I, for sure, don't claim Serral or Clem to be too good in a certain matchup when they go 1-1 in a bo2. Clem's TvT results in 2021 seem to indicate that's he is either the 3rd or the 4th in the matchup, roughly on par with Cure and above Byun and Dream; stylistically, also, he's extremely aggressive and strong in the early-mid game so I confirm that, while Maru is better in TvT and stronger in the lategame, Clem is too good to effectively waste an advantage like the one he had in that game. You can understand whatever you want or can but it I have clearly written that MAYBE Maru's lategame prowess shines MORE in TvT because of the matchup favoring comebacks more than the others; Maru has been plain steamrolling people in TvP this year just as you said, there was no reason to assume the lack of mention of Maru's TvP was indicative of anything. I am pretty sure TY beat Maru in their last Code S finals in at least one game with Raven/Vikings or BCs/Vikings. Y'all are sleeping on INno tvt! with the power of hindsight... no we dont.
God damn reality, always proving me wrong.
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@tigera6 I mean no offense but you do come as pretty aggressive. how does "damn maru is so good at late game in every match-up" become "his mid-game is mediocre" for you and "maybe he shine even more in TvT because of the come-back potentials" is somehow perceived by you as a sleight to maru's TvP? chill down a bit, maru is great, no need to be insecure about it and see disrespect to him everywhere like you do.
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EPT
