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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf?  C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory.
I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better"  (or in this case - BCs are bad design)
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"In my heart I hope Armani makes the finals" lmao
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Well play TY, I am bit sorry for Stats, he deserved at least a final final...
T is really strong lately.
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On October 21 2020 18:30 SetStndbySmn wrote:
I feel frustrated just watching the way he plays. Just an insane amount of stuff you have to watch out for.
Season 1 or 2 had a video segment for the group selection where all the players were asked who's the most frustrating to play against and the majority picked TY. So if you feel frustrated watching imagine how frustrating it is to actually play that.
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Now let's have that Afreeca Freecs teamkill grand finals
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On October 21 2020 18:32 Fango wrote:
"In my heart I hope Armani makes the finals" lmao
Maru's G5L getting shut down by Armani would be quite funny, ngl
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Can we have a protoss-only invite tournament so we can get a championship, please? You can even invite all the big names so we can pretend it means something for a while. We just want one!
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On October 21 2020 18:33 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:32 Fango wrote:
"In my heart I hope Armani makes the finals" lmao Maru's G5L getting shut down by Armani would be quite funny, ngl
G5L is a cursed trophy anyway. But Armani shouldn't win over Maru even with Maru being overconfident. (e.g. Meomaika) It's a BO7 not BO3
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On October 21 2020 18:34 StasisField wrote:
Can we have a protoss-only invite tournament so we can get a championship, please? You can even invite all the big names so we can pretend it means something for a while. We just want one!
Neeb won DH SC2 Masters NA in a PvP finals, it's listed as a premiere tournament. I believe that victory fullfilled the quota
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On October 21 2020 18:33 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:30 SetStndbySmn wrote:
I feel frustrated just watching the way he plays. Just an insane amount of stuff you have to watch out for. Season 1 or 2 had a video segment for the group selection where all the players were asked who's the most frustrating to play against and the majority picked TY. So if you feel frustrated watching imagine how frustrating it is to actually play that.
It really feels like TY studies scouting patterns and goes, "Oh, they only scout this far? I'll just make my barracks like 2 feet over." And it makes my blood boil every time it works lol
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On October 21 2020 18:34 StasisField wrote:
Can we have a protoss-only invite tournament so we can get a championship, please? You can even invite all the big names so we can pretend it means something for a while. We just want one!
It's been over a year since Stats won AsusROG
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The fact that they moved GSL because of DH Oceania
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On October 21 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf? C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory. I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better" (or in this case - BCs are bad design)
You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow.
If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it.
This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists.
If there's a silver lining to the big Blizz announcement earlier this week it's that maybe now people will start giving the Arcade the focus it needs to start becoming as good as the SC:BW and Warcraft 3 customs were.
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On October 21 2020 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf? C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory. I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better" (or in this case - BCs are bad design) You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow. If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it. This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists.
And Starbow died incredibly quickly and never had a large playerbase. This isn't the early 2000's anymore. People aren't going to leave an official ladder for a fan-made project made in a map editor. They'll either stick with what they have or go to another game since high quality competitive games with active dev support are pretty common now. Gaming has evolved.
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On October 21 2020 18:40 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf? C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory. I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better" (or in this case - BCs are bad design) You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow. If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it. This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists. And Starbow died incredibly quickly and never had a large playerbase. This isn't the early 2000's anymore. People aren't going to leave an official ladder for a fan-made project made in a map editor. They'll either stick with what they have or go to another game since high quality competitive games with active dev support are pretty common now. Gaming has evolved.
You are offending me with the truth, please stay away
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On October 21 2020 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf? C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory. I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better" (or in this case - BCs are bad design) You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow. If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it. This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists. If there's a silver lining to the big Blizz announcement earlier this week it's that maybe now people will start giving the Arcade the focus it needs to start becoming as good as the SC:BW and Warcraft 3 customs were.
Why the extremes though? I haven't spread any doom & gloom. There are bad design choices in SC2 and it's not just one or two units. Why not to talk about it? I'm not gonna build a mod with changes as you probably missed I am just saying there are issues, not that I have fixes for the issues. Also I am not being payed to fix the damn game.
BTW I didn't support Starbow and never will.
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On October 21 2020 18:42 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:40 StasisField wrote:On October 21 2020 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf? C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory. I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better" (or in this case - BCs are bad design) You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow. If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it. This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists. And Starbow died incredibly quickly and never had a large playerbase. This isn't the early 2000's anymore. People aren't going to leave an official ladder for a fan-made project made in a map editor. They'll either stick with what they have or go to another game since high quality competitive games with active dev support are pretty common now. Gaming has evolved. You are offending me with the truth, please stay away
Sorry, I'll take my leave
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TY now has the highest all-time winrate in Code S.
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Games were fun but I never thought it would be 4-0, thought it might go all the way to 7 games. Oh well, TY looks so good atm.
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On October 21 2020 18:40 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:25 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:22 deacon.frost wrote:On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design. Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable. The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit. Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design. It's still a bad design choice though. WIth a good end, so what? Still it's a bad thing, same with BL/SH. They're hated not because they're directly OP but because they're bad design Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever. If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran? If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end. So what difference does it make? DUDE. Do you read my posts? I'm all for removing ALL OF THE BAD CHOICES. It was like 2 posts over yours original... wtf? C'mon, I am advocating for a queen change for years now. Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan. We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped. Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening. I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL. If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory. I know, that doesn't stop me from being vocal about the fact there are bad design choices in this game. That's like saying - hey, politicians lie and steal, we can't change that so let's ignore it. Especially if people wanna go the way "sc2 is in a superb state and never was better" (or in this case - BCs are bad design) You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow. If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it. This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists. And Starbow died incredibly quickly and never had a large playerbase. This isn't the early 2000's anymore. People aren't going to leave an official ladder for a fan-made project made in a map editor. They'll either stick with what they have or go to another game since high quality competitive games with active dev support are pretty common now. Gaming has evolved.
The community support didn't work very well then, interesting I ignored the Starbow movement, so I didn't know how big it got, although I must say I thought it's still alive.
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EPT
