[GSL 2020] Code S - Semi Finals - Day 1

On October 21 2020 03:54 Weavel wrote:
Whoever wins will get destroyed by Maru in the finals.

On October 21 2020 12:19 BerserkSword wrote:
Not sure why so many people think maru is going to cruise to another trophy.

Stats is the best PvTer on the planet atm, imo

TY is probably still the most fearsome TvTer in the world right now.

On October 21 2020 12:19 BerserkSword wrote:
Not sure why so many people think maru is going to cruise to another trophy.

Stats is the best PvTer on the planet atm, imo

TY is probably still the most fearsome TvTer in the world right now.

On October 21 2020 12:19 BerserkSword wrote:
Not sure why so many people think maru is going to cruise to another trophy.

Stats is the best PvTer on the planet atm, imo

TY is probably still the most fearsome TvTer in the world right now.

On October 21 2020 16:36 WTCO wrote:


Artosis mentioned on his stream earlier tonight that it was starting at 5 PM KST so it is indeed at the top of the hour.

On October 21 2020 17:41 StasisField wrote:
Stats hasn't had a worker lead after the initial mine drops in either game and the mines aren't even doing that much. Truly confusing

On October 21 2020 17:40 NoS-Craig wrote:
It's not over until the final game. I think there's a small chance Stats can reverse sweep. Protoss has so much bullshit it can do though. So I always believe there's a chance they can win.

On October 21 2020 18:01 sneakyfox wrote:
Finally we get to see TY's answer to PvT latugame....

On October 21 2020 18:06 deacon.frost wrote:
Is Stats doing something wrong or is defending multiple locations is still an issue for them Protoss?

On October 21 2020 18:06 deacon.frost wrote:
Is Stats doing something wrong or is defending multiple locations is still an issue for them Protoss?

On October 21 2020 18:08 rayl991 wrote:


Thats not a problem when you have battery, recall and warpins.

On October 21 2020 18:06 deacon.frost wrote:
Is Stats doing something wrong or is defending multiple locations is still an issue for them Protoss?

On October 21 2020 18:07 darklycid wrote:
Man all those terrans talking bout how impossible tvp is must have been lying to me

On October 21 2020 18:08 rayl991 wrote:


Thats not a problem when you have battery, recall and warpins.

On October 21 2020 18:08 Luolis wrote:

Taeja won games in 2012 so obviously zerg wasnt imba...

On October 21 2020 18:11 BerserkSword wrote:


Stats is playing protoss, that's what he's doing wrong lol

I don't think they are ever going to win another bigtime tournament ever again (Code S/IEM Katowice)

On October 21 2020 18:11 yht9657 wrote:

Clearly TY like all Terran players is just superior to their low-skill Protoss counterparts

On October 21 2020 18:14 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
The BC teleport is, always was, and as long as it's in the game, always will be a terrible piece of game design.

On October 21 2020 18:10 deacon.frost wrote:

Did you watch the game? There were recalls, batteries and yet Stats somehow didn't cope with that...

On October 21 2020 18:15 deacon.frost wrote:

as are queens, battery overcharge...

On October 21 2020 18:16 BerserkSword wrote:


queens are absolutely necessary, unless u make hydra tech earlier.

battery overcharge OP imo tho lol

On October 21 2020 18:20 Supah wrote:
Are Tempests not useful against BCs?

On October 21 2020 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote:


Battlecruisers were literally not used outside of ultra late game TvT until they got Tactical Jump and moving shot. That's what it took to actually make them viable.

The alternative to those abilities is just returning to the days where the Battlecruiser was a joke unit.

Those are just the facts. Before it got those buffs, it wasn't a valid unit. After those buffs it's still niche but actually a valid unit. If you want those buffs reverted you're just admitting that you think it shouldn't be a useful unit for Terran, and that logic to me disqualifies you from talking about game design.

On October 21 2020 18:24 Vindicare605 wrote:


Well you just answered with the easiest counter point ever.

If Zerg and Protoss have all of these band aid answers to making their race work in Starcraft 2, why can't Terran?

If you want to start making arguments based on "well I think that's bad design" two things, first that's a subjective argument and second, that's a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end.

So what difference does it make?

On October 21 2020 18:28 Supah wrote:
That that was like 4 straight games of Protoss being abused.

I don't really understand why there's such huge reluctance to letting Protoss have some strong advantages for a season. They never dictate any responses outside of cheese builds.

On October 21 2020 18:28 Waxangel wrote:
Nice, over the course of two weeks Terran became OP again

On October 21 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:


Well my whole point is that it's an unrealistic thing to expect to happen at this point in the game's lifespan.

We just got the announcement this week that there won't be any large redesigns of the game at the end of this year and all paid for content for SC2 has stopped.

Do you really think they're going to go back and redesign the entire game at this point? No it's just not happening.

I've been arguing against things like Warp Gate, for literally 10 years. I've been thrilled to see SC2's design develop from how frankly terrible it was in WoL.

If Blizz is going to go forward with only minor tweaks from here, I'm cool with that. Compared to where this game has been in the past, the current design is satisfactory.

On October 21 2020 18:33 Durnuu wrote:

Maru's G5L getting shut down by Armani would be quite funny, ngl

On October 21 2020 18:34 StasisField wrote:
Can we have a protoss-only invite tournament so we can get a championship, please? You can even invite all the big names so we can pretend it means something for a while. We just want one!

On October 21 2020 18:34 StasisField wrote:
Can we have a protoss-only invite tournament so we can get a championship, please? You can even invite all the big names so we can pretend it means something for a while. We just want one!

On October 21 2020 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote:


You know what we did back in WoL when we had such large complaints about design? We as a community created and supported SC2 overhauls like Starbow.

If you're still convinced that certain ideas are bad design, make a mod with your changes in it and campaign to get people to support it.

This doom and gloom that people have about the future of Starcraft to me is silly because the Arcade and Map Editor exists and the possibilities for new things there are literally limitless, the community has just gotten so used to Blizzard doing everything that they just forgot that it exists.

If there's a silver lining to the big Blizz announcement earlier this week it's that maybe now people will start giving the Arcade the focus it needs to start becoming as good as the SC:BW and Warcraft 3 customs were.

On October 21 2020 18:40 StasisField wrote:

And Starbow died incredibly quickly and never had a large playerbase. This isn't the early 2000's anymore. People aren't going to leave an official ladder for a fan-made project made in a map editor. They'll either stick with what they have or go to another game since high quality competitive games with active dev support are pretty common now. Gaming has evolved.

On October 21 2020 18:47 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Which Protoss goes up a ramp where tanks are sieged in a concave? This is a basic strategy that a tournament Protoss player knows not to do.

https://youtu.be/-3jzyOpb2F0?t=5752

Well looks like Stats did exactly that by walking up a ramp into a concave of sieged tanks! This series loss is on him.

On October 21 2020 18:51 Elentos wrote:
That move up the ramp costing him his probably last GSL game (at least until his service is done) is not the note you wanna go out on I'd think.

On October 21 2020 18:52 BerserkSword wrote:


Stats is the strongest protoss in the world, the strongest protoss of LotV, the best TvPer on the planet atm, and probably the best decision-making Protoss around at the moment.

You don't know how to play Protoss better than he does lol. And neither does any other Protoss player lol.

You can say stats played badly today, but then you also need to find a way to explain how Protoss hasn't won a big time tournament (code S, blizzcon, IEM) in over 3 years (you can't)

On October 21 2020 18:51 Elentos wrote:
That move up the ramp costing him his probably last GSL game (at least until his service is done) is not the note you wanna go out on I'd think.

On October 21 2020 18:52 BerserkSword wrote:


Stats is the strongest protoss in the world, the strongest protoss of LotV, the best TvPer on the planet atm, and probably the best decision-making Protoss around at the moment.

You don't know how to play Protoss better than he does lol. And neither does any other Protoss player lol.

You can say stats played badly today, but then you also need to find a way to explain how Protoss hasn't won a big time tournament (code S, blizzcon, IEM) in over 3 years (you can't)

On October 21 2020 18:56 deacon.frost wrote:

If the best decision was to go up aramp against more siegetanks than he had zealots, then I call his decision making not being the best at the moment.

On October 21 2020 18:59 Elentos wrote:

Well you can say that but that thought should never cross his mind. I expect Stats to at least do better than that.

On October 21 2020 19:21 Luolis wrote:

Yeah they got smoked by complete trash terran players like Maru and TY

On October 21 2020 19:47 BerserkSword wrote:


Nobody called Maru and TY trash to my knowledge, unless you actually are.

I'm just noting the mental gymnastics in every premier tournament topic justifying Protoss players having to play flawlessly, like a machine, in an entire Bo7, or they lose.

Like in this topic we have a poster chalking Stats losing the series up to spending 2 seconds in range of a concave of siege tanks on high ground (already down 3-0 mind you). Saying that some Average Joe Tournament Protoss wouldnt make the same "mistake" (more like a judgement call). ....Really? lol

It's not an isolated incidence. Stats is literally the pinnacle of Protoss play in LotV, and he is repeatedly embarrassed like today or last Code S finals vs Rogue. As is Trap, and was Classic, the only other two making noise for the race.

Whatever, hopefully SC2 dies out soon and we can all go back to brood war. Starcraft, at the e-sport level, was renown for all races being able to win at the highest level. Blizzard is probably right about slowly cutting the cord to SC2. Something is amiss here. Maybe more people than I think enjoy a two race game at the highest level.

On October 21 2020 20:00 deacon.frost wrote:

He did a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes though. I'm not saying Protoss is in a good state, but the last 2 games were not exactly the games you want to prove that on.

Also it's quite interesting Protoss managed to get plenty of 2nd places(at least 2018/19) while winning almost nothing, compared to Terrans(Well, Maru ), where they managed to win, but almost none 2nd places. Not sure what to take of it, just find it interesting

On October 21 2020 20:08 BerserkSword wrote:


Stats didn't make "a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes"

and even if you want to go forward based on that premise, it's the same narrative you see over and over again in threads like these.........."[Insert world class protoss pro here] made a lot of mistakes that's why he lost"

sure thing chief!

On October 21 2020 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:

Dude, Stats attacked through a narrow ramp into siege tanks! WTF? He blinked on a ledge with marauders and again, attacked through a narrow ramp. And both time he attacked up the ramp. THat's a very bad way of attacking. This isn't exactly the thing you're looking for at the best decision making protoss player(your words)

On October 21 2020 20:18 dysenterymd wrote:
Protoss champion 2022?

On October 21 2020 20:10 Vindicare605 wrote:


You know why it died? Because a lot of the ideas that were in it eventually got ported over to the main game some of them good (like the economy changes) and some of them bad (like tankivacs.)

The point is that Starbow was born out of a LARGE community outcry about the game's design, not the small pitter patter of people on TL that we have now.

A lot of the complaints that spawned Starbow eventually became a part of the main game, and that's why the movement died out, there was no reason for it anymore.

Blizzard then started doing more of the fundamental redesigns on a year by year basis so that crap like the Mothership Core eventually died, or things like the Raven and Infestor got major redesigns.

Blizzard started doing more to update the game and keep it fresh from where they were in WoL when Starbow was born. Starbow was born out of Blizzard doing too little when the state of the game was in really bad shape, for those of you that don't remember this was in the height of the Broodlord/Infestor days and every match came down to a 200 supply deathball fight.

If Blizzard's updating of the game is going to stop, and the demand for redesigns gets back to where it was in WoL then the community can start looking at alternatives like what Starbow was.

For right now though, the demand isn't there because the game's design is WAY better now than it was in WoL. The complaints about the design of the game are tiny and insignificant compared to what they were back then. So there's no need to go that far. Minor tweaks will suffice.

On October 21 2020 20:42 FrkFrJss wrote:
I know Stats played far from perfect, and I know TY play incredibly well. It's still very frustrating as a Protoss player to see top Protoss consistently fail at the highest level to win anything other than Dreamhack NA and the occasional Super tournament (and maybe an Asus Rog).

On October 21 2020 20:43 mierin wrote:
It's so refreshing to hear people bag on terrans constantly now instead of zergs. The winds of balance whining are fickle indeed!

On October 21 2020 20:13 Vindicare605 wrote:


Every match up is unplayable until a Protoss wins something. It's the exact same reactionary bullshit that piloted the "Terrans are the worst whiners" meme for so long.

On October 21 2020 20:58 darklycid wrote:

I mean some ppl may be serious, im just being snarky on all the terrans that complained about tvp the recent times while the mu looks pretty winnable for both sides

On October 21 2020 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:
Dude, Stats attacked through a narrow ramp into siege tanks! WTF? He blinked on a ledge with marauders and again, attacked through a narrow ramp. And both time he attacked up the ramp. THat's a very bad way of attacking. This isn't exactly the thing you're looking for at the best decision making protoss player(your words)

On October 21 2020 21:17 Poopi wrote:

You realize that in 2018, where zerg dominated hard and terran was lonely carried by Maru, protoss still managed to get more money than terran in spite of the Maru dominance? That's pretty telling, your narrative that protoss is struggling so hard since 3-4 years is super bullshit. In 2019 since Maru couldn't carry all terran the difference is greater as well...
They even had to be nerfed at some point. And yeah a lot of protoss finalists lost to zergs in the finals, that's a bit because of some protoss kongs and balance, but protoss aren't doing that bad overall, especially not in 2020.

On October 21 2020 22:10 La1 wrote:
protoss stood somewhat of a chance until the latest rounds of protoss nerfs which took away charge damage from zealots etc..
Since that patch protoss has just been obliterated at every turn by both terran and zerg. Previously protoss was probably stronger than terran but would get stomped by zerg. The recent round of buffs/nerfs have meant protoss have to pull out crazy tricks and plays to take games which is shown by the constant innovation.

No other race gets punished more than protoss for tiny mistakes and that is the weakness of the race.