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Denmark1219 Posts
I am sure people will still say that protoss are doing juust fine based on their Ro8 (and Ro4?) representation. Or that Stats just had poor decision making etc. as it usually goes. I am also sure Blizzard will do their part by nerfing the disruptor next patch anyway. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
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jojamon
133 Posts
On October 22 2020 04:05 3 Lions wrote: Stats is the epitome of a standard protoss player. I don't think him losing to a player like TY (arguably one of the more unpredictable terrans) should be taken as an indicator of imbalance in the matchup. TY prepared better for the series and it showed. He was the better player today and it wasn't close. Honestly I think Blizzard patched this game much too often and them perhaps dialing back the cadence of balance updates can hopefully drive more pro players to develop counter-play instead of just whining about imbalance. Or perhaps map-making can also help address some of these issues. Yeah I feel that a lot of it is maps. Some maps just strongly favor one race over the others. With regards to patching, it's too bad Blizzard didn't want to introduce any balance updates back in the WoL BL/Infestor era...that was honestly quite broken. The Swarm Host/Nydus period was also not fun to play or watch at all. | ||
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rogzardo_
24 Posts
On October 22 2020 05:43 Cricketer12 wrote: Damn...pretty sad ending to gsl Except GSL isn't over | ||
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JJH777
United States4420 Posts
Looking at premier tournaments since 1/1/2018 TvP finals consisted of 1 win for Toss and 3 losses. Sure 1 win out of 4 finals isn't great but all 3 of those losses were to Maru who especially on TvP has dramatically outperformed other T players. The bigger issue is that only 4 premiers have had a TvP finals in a 3 year period which is also caused by Zerg. Now let's look at ZvP finals we have 18 ZvP finals and Toss has only won 3. And one of those was Neeb vs Scarlett in WCS America. The other two were Stats in a super tournament and in ASUS Rog. That is abysmal. I feel like Zergs here and on Reddit just wait for Protoss to lose a high profile PvT and then blame Terran for P underperformance when it is clearly Zerg and the occasional big PvT loss doesn't change that. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
it very well might be in it's current form | ||
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Garbo1
49 Posts
This is pretty much how he beat all Terrans prior to now, just having a warp prism nearby and as soon as the main attack force from Terran came, just 8-10 chargelots into a mineral line and seconds later, all workers dead. TY's response to this was, to me at least, genius. Imagine if they hadn't patched the ridiculous zealot charge damage, that level of prep would still not have been enough. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 22 2020 07:17 JJH777 wrote: The problem with Protoss results for the past 3 years is solely due to Zerg and this match doesn't change that. Protoss are doing great in TvP right now and besides a few minor stretches they've done well in that matchup basically forever. Looking at premier tournaments since 1/1/2018 TvP finals consisted of 1 win for Toss and 3 losses. Sure 1 win out of 4 finals isn't great but all 3 of those losses were to Maru who especially on TvP has dramatically outperformed other T players. The bigger issue is that only 4 premiers have had a TvP finals in a 3 year period which is also caused by Zerg. Now let's look at ZvP finals we have 18 ZvP finals and Toss has only won 3. And one of those was Neeb vs Scarlett in WCS America. The other two were Stats in a super tournament and in ASUS Rog. That is abysmal. I feel like Zergs here and on Reddit just wait for Protoss to lose a high profile PvT and then blame Terran for P underperformance when it is clearly Zerg and the occasional big PvT loss doesn't change that. I mean, you say it's Zerg, i say it's clearly Rogue and Serral who have built themselves a career out of murdering Protoss players in Bo7s. And Rogue's streak of doing that starts even before 2018. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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JJH777
United States4420 Posts
On October 22 2020 09:32 lolfail9001 wrote: I mean, you say it's Zerg, i say it's clearly Rogue and Serral who have built themselves a career out of murdering Protoss players in Bo7s. And Rogue's streak of doing that starts even before 2018. While I don't agree with you that it's just Rogue and Serral but it doesn't really matter because that's not the basic point of what I'm arguing which is just that PvT has absolutely nothing to do with Protoss under performance and this strange result doesn't change that. You can flip a couple PvZ matches and the entire narrative or Protoss being weak these past few years falls apart. You can't do the same with PvTs no matter which you choose. | ||
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serendipitous
Canada195 Posts
I don't think TY won through balance though, the way he's playing is absolutely insane and he's only lost a single map this GSL. My brain says he'll win GSL but my heart hopes for Maru. | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
On October 22 2020 10:01 serendipitous wrote: I'd like to see a small buff to zealots in some way, it seems that protoss has less options after the Zealot nerfs. Although PvT seemed good for Protoss up until now so it could just need another meta shift. I don't think TY won through balance though, the way he's playing is absolutely insane and he's only lost a single map this GSL. My brain says he'll win GSL but my heart hopes for Maru. artosis said in the cast that TY has the best TvT, therefore Maru wins another GSL | ||
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J. Corsair
United States470 Posts
On October 22 2020 07:17 JJH777 wrote: The problem with Protoss results for the past 3 years is solely due to Zerg and this match doesn't change that. Protoss are doing great in TvP right now and besides a few minor stretches they've done well in that matchup basically forever. Looking at premier tournaments since 1/1/2018 TvP finals consisted of 1 win for Toss and 3 losses. Sure 1 win out of 4 finals isn't great but all 3 of those losses were to Maru who especially on TvP has dramatically outperformed other T players. The bigger issue is that only 4 premiers have had a TvP finals in a 3 year period which is also caused by Zerg. Now let's look at ZvP finals we have 18 ZvP finals and Toss has only won 3. And one of those was Neeb vs Scarlett in WCS America. The other two were Stats in a super tournament and in ASUS Rog. That is abysmal. I feel like Zergs here and on Reddit just wait for Protoss to lose a high profile PvT and then blame Terran for P underperformance when it is clearly Zerg and the occasional big PvT loss doesn't change that. This is exactly what I think, and statistically it is a sound argument. The real issue is protoss inflexibility vs zerg. That seems self-evident. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On October 22 2020 07:17 JJH777 wrote: The problem with Protoss results for the past 3 years is solely due to Zerg and this match doesn't change that. Protoss are doing great in TvP right now and besides a few minor stretches they've done well in that matchup basically forever. Looking at premier tournaments since 1/1/2018 TvP finals consisted of 1 win for Toss and 3 losses. Sure 1 win out of 4 finals isn't great but all 3 of those losses were to Maru who especially on TvP has dramatically outperformed other T players. The bigger issue is that only 4 premiers have had a TvP finals in a 3 year period which is also caused by Zerg. Now let's look at ZvP finals we have 18 ZvP finals and Toss has only won 3. And one of those was Neeb vs Scarlett in WCS America. The other two were Stats in a super tournament and in ASUS Rog. That is abysmal. I feel like Zergs here and on Reddit just wait for Protoss to lose a high profile PvT and then blame Terran for P underperformance when it is clearly Zerg and the occasional big PvT loss doesn't change that. It has to be, Stats won like 5 PvTs handily against the very best Terrans in the world before this match. Has any Protoss done anything like that against Zerg? Protoss rides on Terran to get to their immense amount of finals where they get smashed by a Zerg. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On October 22 2020 20:08 Zambrah wrote: Did Stats win handily? Didnt he 2-1 Maru and 3-2 Innovation and even then whenever he deviated from doing the seemingly one viable PvT build he lost, he seemed to be not SCRAPING by, but hardly winning handily I'd say Stats is probably one of the best 3 players in the world, was able to eek out wins with one style only. Ty didn't have to prepare for anything except TvP, and used 4 different strategies and they all worked. This is the problem, people say "well these 3 protoss players get out of group most of the time so it's fine." Group play and actually preparing for a single opponent really shows you the inflexibility that handcuffs protoss. Now, I think Stats should have worked in some all-ins, but honestly, they wouldn't be likely to work. | ||
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Slydie
2016 Posts
On October 23 2020 02:51 lorestarcraft wrote: Stats is probably one of the best 3 players in the world, was able to eek out wins with one style only. Ty didn't have to prepare for anything except TvP, and used 4 different strategies and they all worked. This is the problem, people say "well these 3 protoss players get out of group most of the time so it's fine." Group play and actually preparing for a single opponent really shows you the inflexibility that handcuffs protoss. Now, I think Stats should have worked in some all-ins, but honestly, they wouldn't be likely to work. Stats is a great player, but being predictable and defensive minded is a serious weakness at this level. Clem's TvZ is a bit similar, he has great standard bio play, but other Terrans have a much wider range of strategies they can throw at their opponents, and some times even invent new ones. | ||
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