On October 09 2020 02:13 Penev wrote: Didn't ace my liquibets but I'm not complaining, very impressed by Cure
Ditto. That upset ruined a lot of liquibets I think. Now gotta find one of the higher ranked people that predicted Cure.
Yeah, betting for Cure here will definitely improve your ranking with everyone still so close together. It's just 1 point though, gotta get dem playoffs bets right.
I would imagine most people who bet Cure will not benefit much because they also bet Reynor.
If anyone looked at that group and thought Innovation wasn't going to advance they're a fool honestly. Either Innovation was going to advance over Reynor or he was going to do it over Cure. You'd have to be a serious Inno hater to think he'd lose to both of them in the same group.
On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote: 5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol
I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here.
I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't.
None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given.
And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really.
On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote: 5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol
I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here.
I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't.
None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given.
And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really.
Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral.
On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote: 5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol
I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here.
I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't.
None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given.
And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really.
Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral.
The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem.
On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote: 5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol
I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here.
I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't.
None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given.
And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really.
Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral.
The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem.
Reynor and Serral are super mechanical but Rogue has some of the weaker mechanics and macro of top zergs imo. His biggest strength is that he can play weekender tournaments as if he's been prepping builds for weeks.
On October 09 2020 00:31 Morbidius wrote: Win 2 online tournaments on 200 ping: Best player in the world. Win GSL into Katowice into another GSL: Inconsistent.
Well you did kinda leave out a few events between that GSL and Katowice and that other GSL. Like a GSL where Rogue lost in the first group stage.
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3.
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral.
Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue?
Come on now.
EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament.
Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right?
Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do.
The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ.
And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can.
It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste.
With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t.
On October 09 2020 00:31 Morbidius wrote: Win 2 online tournaments on 200 ping: Best player in the world. Win GSL into Katowice into another GSL: Inconsistent.
Well you did kinda leave out a few events between that GSL and Katowice and that other GSL. Like a GSL where Rogue lost in the first group stage.
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3.
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral.
Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue?
Come on now.
EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament.
Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right?
Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do.
The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ.
And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can.
It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste.
With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t.
His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive
It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles.
On October 09 2020 00:31 Morbidius wrote: Win 2 online tournaments on 200 ping: Best player in the world. Win GSL into Katowice into another GSL: Inconsistent.
Well you did kinda leave out a few events between that GSL and Katowice and that other GSL. Like a GSL where Rogue lost in the first group stage.
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3.
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral.
Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue?
Come on now.
EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament.
Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right?
Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do.
The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ.
And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can.
It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste.
With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t.
His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive
It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles.
Not necessarily. It says that Rogue is immensely clutch when it comes to finals and semifinals, even when other players win more tournaments and perform better on average; if BlizzCon's semifinals were bo7, his streak would have been broken long ago.
[/QUOTE] It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't remotely disagree, but considering you were a huge believer in the "Rogue is a Patch Zerg," train for a couple years, I'm glad to see minds can change.
It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles.
I wouldn't remotely disagree, but considering you were a huge believer in the "Rogue is a Patch Zerg," train for a couple years, I'm glad to see minds can change.
Uh... you do realize I am using the Rogue Patchzerg ironically, because I still believe, that the article shouldn't have happened and it's highly offensive towards Rogue? (also it broke the fact that calling players patch-* was a moderated nono)
On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote: 5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol
I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here.
I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't.
None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given.
And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really.
Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral.
The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem.
Really? Rogue is -35 maps vs Innovation. Innovation is -13 vs Serral.
Even removing online games, Serral's record vs Innovation is still positive.
A quick look on Serral's record we see that his "Nemesis" are:
-7 Happy, -6 Vortix, -5 ForGG, -5 Jaedong, -4 MC
Basically people who quit the game before Serral went full time pro.
The better player does not always win. Congratulations to Cure for taking out the biggest gun today, but he still has a long way to go before he can take Reynor's crown as #1 full package. Reynor tweeted that he doesn't have an answer for what Cure did, which is to say that he'll be even more dominating in ZvT when he figures it out.
On October 09 2020 00:31 Morbidius wrote: Win 2 online tournaments on 200 ping: Best player in the world. Win GSL into Katowice into another GSL: Inconsistent.
Well you did kinda leave out a few events between that GSL and Katowice and that other GSL. Like a GSL where Rogue lost in the first group stage.
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3.
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral.
Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue?
Come on now.
EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament.
Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right?
Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do.
The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ.
And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can.
It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste.
With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t.
His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive
It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles.
Does it even say that really?
He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier
Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times.
On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote: 5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol
I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here.
I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't.
None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given.
And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really.
Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral.
The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem.
Really? Rogue is -35 maps vs Innovation. Innovation is -13 vs Serral.
Even removing online games, Serral's record vs Innovation is still positive.
A quick look on Serral's record we see that his "Nemesis" are:
-7 Happy, -6 Vortix, -5 ForGG, -5 Jaedong, -4 MC
Basically people who quit the game before Serral went full time pro.
Pretty sure TY also has an awful record vs Serral.
TL has some really weird takes.
Funny that you start talking about all time records when I said recently. Most of Rogues matches vs Inno are from when he was actually the best T in the world. All of Serrals matches vs Inno are from when he was at best 3rd of the top Ts and occasionally 4th. Though I won't dispute Rogue vs Inno is strangely Inno favored. I don't think results against one player determine anything though. I am confident when considering what he showed a month later at super Tournament that Maru would have stomped any other Zerg in the world at IEM this year and Rogue beat him.
On October 09 2020 00:31 Morbidius wrote: Win 2 online tournaments on 200 ping: Best player in the world. Win GSL into Katowice into another GSL: Inconsistent.
Well you did kinda leave out a few events between that GSL and Katowice and that other GSL. Like a GSL where Rogue lost in the first group stage.
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3.
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral.
Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue?
Come on now.
EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament.
Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right?
Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do.
The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ.
And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can.
It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste.
With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t.
His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive
It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles.
Does it even say that really?
He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier
Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times.
Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title.
EPT
