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On October 09 2020 06:10 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 05:28 lostusername123 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:53 JJH777 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:34 S19Q9A5 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:12 Swisslink wrote:On October 09 2020 02:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote:
5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here. I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't. None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given. And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really. Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral. The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem. Really? Rogue is -35 maps vs Innovation. Innovation is -13 vs Serral. Even removing online games, Serral's record vs Innovation is still positive. A quick look on Serral's record we see that his "Nemesis" are: -7 Happy, -6 Vortix, -5 ForGG, -5 Jaedong, -4 MC Basically people who quit the game before Serral went full time pro. When we look at rogues nemesis: -35 Innovation, -12 ByuN, -10 TY, -7 sOs, -6 Myungsik Pretty sure TY also has an awful record vs Serral. TL has some really weird takes. Funny that you start talking about all time records when I said recently. Most of Rogues matches vs Inno are from when he was actually the best T in the world. All of Serrals matches vs Inno are from when he was at best 3rd of the top Ts and occasionally 4th. Though I won't dispute Rogue vs Inno is strangely Inno favored. I don't think results against one player determine anything though. I am confident when considering what he showed a month later at super Tournament that Maru would have stomped any other Zerg in the world at IEM this year and Rogue beat him.
Debatable considering that Serral was extremely hot in TvZ without peing being involved.
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Serral 3-0 innov in gsl vs world, rogue lost 1-6 to inno a couple weeks before.
Basically Serral beats innovation, innovation demolishes rogue regardless of date, in the same time period, you should use another excuse.
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On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:46 Elentos wrote:On October 09 2020 00:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:37 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
Well you did kinda leave out a few events between that GSL and Katowice and that other GSL. Like a GSL where Rogue lost in the first group stage. Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3. Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3. A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral. Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue? Come on now. EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title.
Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud.
Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape.
Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On October 09 2020 07:15 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:46 Elentos wrote:On October 09 2020 00:41 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3. A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral. Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue? Come on now. EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title. Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud. Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape. Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal.
Did he win? Not, how many WC titles he has? 3.
Back to ignoring you.
Edit> to be more precise - when Rogue's on fire, there's no one who can stop him. That's why the stats about that BO7 offline exists. At Blizzcon 2018 Rogue wasn't on fire. He may have a form, but not the "I Have 3 WC titles and I don't give a fuck" form. That's what I meant by a good form, you knew it and yet you digress with 2018 blizzcon. There were other Blizzcons unless you missed them on purpose.
I'm actually more surprised you didn't bring 2019 Blizzcon because at that Blzizcon ROgue was more in a good form. He just won a Code S and was about to win the IEM and it was a big surprise he lost to Classic. But no, obviously the universe rounds around Serral, let's bring a game from a tournament where Rogue wasn't in such a good shape as you make it because SErral won it.
BEFORE the 2018 Blizzcon Rogue hasn't done anything big and after that neither. SO why are you bringing it in here? Rethorical question. ( i mean in the tournaments right before and right after, before the Blizzcon he won IEM and a Blizzcon  )
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On October 09 2020 07:15 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:46 Elentos wrote:On October 09 2020 00:41 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
Time out Elentos. Are you really going to suggest that Rogue losing to Scarlett like THAT was somehow an indication that he is an inconsistent player? Don't do it! That series is not a black mark on Rogue, it's more that Scarlett and NoRegret prepared one of the cleverest cheesiest bullshit series that happened to knock out a heavy favorite in a Bo3.
Considering that Rogue still has one of the most impressive records in professional Starcraft (Undefeated in offline Bo7s.) I'm more than willing to completely overlook being cheesed out of one ZvZ Bo3. A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral. Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue? Come on now. EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title. Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud. Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape. Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal.
Still dwelling on Blizzcon 2018 dear? Might as well because Serral isn't winning anything close to that again.
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On October 09 2020 07:20 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 07:15 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:46 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral. Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue? Come on now. EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title. Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud. Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape. Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal. Still dwelling on Blizzcon 2018 dear? Might as well because Serral isn't winning anything close to that again.
its all he has lately
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On October 09 2020 07:20 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 07:15 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:46 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral. Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue? Come on now. EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title. Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud. Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape. Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal. Still dwelling on Blizzcon 2018 dear? Might as well because Serral isn't winning anything close to that again.
When he could have brought up 2019 Blizzcon. Rogue just won a Code S, was telling Zerg's broken and was about to win the IEM. Everybody was expecting Rogue to win the Blizzcon and he didn't deliver. It's more a situation to question the statement than the 2018 Blizzon. Wonder why the argument was 2018 blizzcon and not 2019
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On October 09 2020 07:22 starkiller123 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 07:20 Morbidius wrote:On October 09 2020 07:15 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue?
Come on now.
EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title. Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud. Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape. Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal. Still dwelling on Blizzcon 2018 dear? Might as well because Serral isn't winning anything close to that again. its all he has lately
No, I'm answering to those "Rogue the unbeatable" things.
It's the case I remember the most for obvious reasons, Rogue said he was gonna win and got destroyed.
At BlizzCon 2019 I don't remember Rogue saying he was going to win although he admitted that Zerg was broken.
Rogue is a great player who is both extremely clutch and totally inconsistent. I am not really convinced that he is unstoppable when he is in shape, it's even hard to define when he is.
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On October 09 2020 03:34 S19Q9A5 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 03:12 Swisslink wrote:On October 09 2020 02:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote:
5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here. I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't. None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given. And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really. Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral.
As mentioned: it‘s not really about the level of play. Rogue just has the tendency to show up at his very best, when everyone is hyping a game up and to crush everyone‘s hopes. And almost always with absolutely horrible games that is. Ans with everyone talking about the terran dominance, about the chance for a non-Zerg winner... well... this looks like the time for Rogue to shine.
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On October 09 2020 07:20 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 07:15 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 07:07 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 04:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 09 2020 04:27 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 01:21 Xain0n wrote:On October 09 2020 00:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 00:46 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
A GSL group is more than a single series. He got stomped by Inno just as hard as Scarlett did. And there's supposed to be a multi-tier difference between those Zergs. And yes, I'm just gonna say it, what Scarlett did there wouldn't have worked against Serral. Oh Serral, you mean the guy that ELAZER knocked out of TSL5? You don't think Scarlett could knock him out of a Bo3 if she had prep time like she did vs Rogue? Come on now. EDIT: Knocked down, not out. Reynor knocked Serral out of that tournament. Two ZvZ's he lost in that same tournament. Of course Scarlett wouldn't have. Hating on Elazer who eliminated "god tier Dark" in 2019? You don't want me to remind you how insanely consistent Serral has been, right? Way to miss the point Xainon just like you always do. The point is that a single series doesn't mean squat when you're a multiple champion like Rogue and Serral are, especially when it's ZvZ. And as consistent as Serral has been (although much less so this year even you'll admit that) he doesn't have Rogue's record of being undefeated in offline Bo7 matches. No other Starcraft pro has that. If that doesn't show how strong he has consistently been nothing else can. It’s a stat that says, something. It’s just a weird stat to my personal taste. With a player as streaky as Rogue and how infrequently Bo7 comes into play it’s almost something that only comes into play when Rogue is at peak form, and doesn’t when he isn’t. His Bo5 record isn’t as remotely as impressive It's a stat which says that when he's in form he's the best player in the world. That's why he has 3 WC titles. Does it even say that really? He’s certainly clutch in finals, it tells us that. Given the majority of tournament play is Bo3 or Bo5 it’s just a weird outlier Be it form, be it balance (arguably the Trap GSL final), yeah it tells us something about when Rogue gets there he wins and nothing about why he fails to get there all the other times. Well, you can find many interpretations, mine is that if Rogue's in a form there's nothing that can stop him from winning a title. Rogue is usually very honest; when he feels strong, he says it out loud. Rewatch his interview at BlizzCon 2018, rewatch the games and tell me he wasn't in shape. Then, look at his expression after g4 of the semifinal. Still dwelling on Blizzcon 2018 dear? Might as well because Serral isn't winning anything close to that again.
Bit of a hysterical statement, even from you.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On October 09 2020 07:49 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 03:34 S19Q9A5 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:12 Swisslink wrote:On October 09 2020 02:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote:
5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here. I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't. None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given. And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really. Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral. As mentioned: it‘s not really about the level of play. Rogue just has the tendency to show up at his very best, when everyone is hyping a game up and to crush everyone‘s hopes. And almost always with absolutely horrible games that is. Ans with everyone talking about the terran dominance, about the chance for a non-Zerg winner... well... this looks like the time for Rogue to shine.
Well, the dominance is questionable considering the only surprise is Cure over Reynor and Clem over Rangarok and both results aren't that big surprises per se. It looks nice until it's won by some other race. I hope for the 4th race
Edit> honestly I think we will have zvz finals(if possible) and a zerg champion, but man can dream  Even without the Dream
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On October 09 2020 05:28 lostusername123 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 03:53 JJH777 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:34 S19Q9A5 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:12 Swisslink wrote:On October 09 2020 02:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote:
5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here. I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't. None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given. And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really. Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral. The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem. Really? Rogue is -35 maps vs Innovation. Innovation is -13 vs Serral. Even removing online games, Serral's record vs Innovation is still positive. A quick look on Serral's record we see that his "Nemesis" are: -7 Happy, -6 Vortix, -5 ForGG, -5 Jaedong, -4 MC Basically people who quit the game before Serral went full time pro. When we look at rogues nemesis: -35 Innovation, -12 ByuN, -10 TY, -7 sOs, -6 Myungsik Pretty sure TY also has an awful record vs Serral. TL has some really weird takes.
This stat means nothing, it's as stupid as saying unlike Serral, Rogue also has a winning record vs Reynor the last 4 times they played.
Rogue also plays vs consistently stronger players compared to Serral with the exception of Reynor and Serral himself. so of course he loses more and is more exposed than Serral, but somehow 3 WC, 2 GSL's (+1 Super tournament) & 1 IEM < Serral's resume, which I find fuking hilarious
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On October 09 2020 08:26 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 05:28 lostusername123 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:53 JJH777 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:34 S19Q9A5 wrote:On October 09 2020 03:12 Swisslink wrote:On October 09 2020 02:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 09 2020 02:23 TentativePanda wrote:
5 Terrans in Ro8 but they will forever be the weak race that’s too hard to play lol I mean if you looked at the bracket coming into this thing it was obvious that the playoffs were going to be Terran heavy just by who the players were that were coming here. I thought we'd have one more Zerg in Reynor and I guess some people could argue that Trap had a decent chance against Maru, but TY, Innovation and Clem were ALWAYS going to advance with the groups they had. No way they didn't. None of the results were a big upset for sure. Even Cure beating up Reynor moght not have been the most likely outcome, but neither was it a hige surprise, imo. I would agree. However, Trap - Maru and Clem - Ragnarok could also have gone either way, imo. Therefore the Terran dominance was definitely not a given. And with how this tournament turns out, this looks like a certain Rogue victory. Not in terms of play, but everyone got their hopes up for a non- Zerg winner. Crushing hopes is were Rogue really shines. 4:0 finals incoming. Or even 3:0/4:0/4:0 streak really. Why do you overestimate him so much? Rogue's ZvT not great as Reynor or Serral. The only reason Rogue has looked worse in ZvT than Reynor and Serral lately is because they always have the benefit of playing with ping on their side vs everyone besides Clem. Really? Rogue is -35 maps vs Innovation. Innovation is -13 vs Serral. Even removing online games, Serral's record vs Innovation is still positive. A quick look on Serral's record we see that his "Nemesis" are: -7 Happy, -6 Vortix, -5 ForGG, -5 Jaedong, -4 MC Basically people who quit the game before Serral went full time pro. When we look at rogues nemesis: -35 Innovation, -12 ByuN, -10 TY, -7 sOs, -6 Myungsik Pretty sure TY also has an awful record vs Serral. TL has some really weird takes. This stat means nothing, it's as stupid as saying unlike Serral, Rogue also has a winning record vs Reynor the last 4 times they played. Rogue also plays vs consistently stronger players compared to Serral with the exception of Reynor and Serral himself. so of course he loses more and is more exposed than Serral, but somehow 3 WC, 2 GSL's (+1 Super tournament) & 1 IEM < Serral's resume, which I find fuking hilarious
Rogue loses more often than many of his korean peers.
He's just the most clutch of them all(along with Inno), and the best ZvZ player in Korea(a relevant factor in the last year and half).
He has his huge wins and not much else; not many other tournament wins, not many relevant placements.
His 7-0 in Premier finals makes him the Clutchest Player of all Time, he's far from being a GOAT.
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Lol Serral has a winning record vs Reynor.
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On October 09 2020 08:54 lostusername123 wrote:
Lol Serral has a winning record vs Reynor.
not in the last 4 times they played
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Man, a lot of y'all are being complete jackasses lol can y'all not discuss anything regarding Serral's 2018 without turning into the Plastics from Mean Girls? Instead of mocking Xain0n for liking Serral how about you talk about what he actually said in his post and be better than the rest of the internet like users on TL claim to be?
Yes, Rogue is undefeated in offline bo7s. It could mean a lot of things. Personally, I think it means he's incredibly clutch when he's deep in a tournament and knows how to prep for a finals better than anyone else. I don't think he's untouchable mechanically speaking but his prep is there, much like 2018 Maru who often looked mortal in the group stage of the GSL but looked out of this world in the playoffs where he had time to prep. I'd be very interested to see Rogue play a teammate in the final of a premier tournament to see if he crumbles as hard as Maru did vs sOs at Blizzcon 2018 or if he has that resilience even when his builds should be properly exposed.
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On October 09 2020 10:09 StasisField wrote:
Man, a lot of y'all are being complete jackasses lol can y'all not discuss anything regarding Serral's 2018 without turning into the Plastics from Mean Girls? Instead of mocking Xain0n for liking Serral how about you talk about what he actually said in his post and be better than the rest of the internet like users on TL claim to be?
Yes, Rogue is undefeated in offline bo7s. It could mean a lot of things. Personally, I think it means he's incredibly clutch when he's deep in a tournament and knows how to prep for a finals better than anyone else. I don't think he's untouchable mechanically speaking but his prep is there, much like 2018 Maru who often looked mortal in the group stage of the GSL but looked out of this world in the playoffs where he had time to prep. I'd be very interested to see Rogue play a teammate in the final of a premier tournament to see if he crumbles as hard as Maru did vs sOs at Blizzcon 2018 or if he has that resilience even when his builds should be properly exposed.
did you see his final vs Trap in GSL last year?
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On October 09 2020 10:09 StasisField wrote:
Man, a lot of y'all are being complete jackasses lol can y'all not discuss anything regarding Serral's 2018 without turning into the Plastics from Mean Girls? Instead of mocking Xain0n for liking Serral how about you talk about what he actually said in his post and be better than the rest of the internet like users on TL claim to be?
Yes, Rogue is undefeated in offline bo7s. It could mean a lot of things. Personally, I think it means he's incredibly clutch when he's deep in a tournament and knows how to prep for a finals better than anyone else. I don't think he's untouchable mechanically speaking but his prep is there, much like 2018 Maru who often looked mortal in the group stage of the GSL but looked out of this world in the playoffs where he had time to prep. I'd be very interested to see Rogue play a teammate in the final of a premier tournament to see if he crumbles as hard as Maru did vs sOs at Blizzcon 2018 or if he has that resilience even when his builds should be properly exposed.
First of all, thank you for your kindness.
Rogue actually played against Trap in the finals of Code S S3 2019 and brutally stomped him; however, you have to take into consideration Trap's Kong attitude and the state of PvZ at the time.
Having a Maru vs Rogue bo7 in a Premier offline final, would be very interesting; especially if the said final is played on asian soil with an even meta or one mildly favoring Zerg(with Maru's wrists intact), given's Rogue sinergy and Maru's antisinergy with advantages given by racial balance.
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The mental gymnastics going on in here to underrate Rogue is astounding.
It's not merely about being clutch. He is an absolute juggernaut. As stated before he has won an absurd 2 IEM Championships and a Blizzcon itself...not to mention the fact that he's placed top 4 in two other Blizzcons (and he did crumble as hard as maru against sOs in blizzcon back in 2015....it's hard to even call it a real upset since sOs himself has won two blizzcons). He is a threat in all tournaments he plays in, and has proven himself in the hardest circuit on the planet aka the GSL with TWO code S titles and a ST win - mind you in LotV where Zerg barely wins in the Korean circuits to begin with.
Curb stomping his opponents in the finals of the biggest tournaments in the game every single time, an unprecedented number of times in the SC2 scene, is not merely a factor of being clutch. When he's in peak form he reaches the finals and never fails to embarrass the other finalist......calling that merely "clutch" is an understatement.
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As far as the last time Rogue lost to teammates in bo5+ in offline:
Maru 3-0 in 2018 (GSL ST);
Trap 3-2 in Kongfu Cup 2018
Cure 3-2 in 2019 (when he was in Jin Air) in an online tourney (they never played each other in offline bo5's;
sOs in 2020 GSL Super Tourney (oops)
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EPT
