EPTOn October 09 2020 11:47 AzAlexZ wrote:
We'll go there when we get there, no guarantee he will win
We'll go there when we get there, no guarantee he will win
It's pretty likely, Im just wondering how you guys will cope.
$30,000 King of Battles - Main Event - Page 60
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lostusername123
47 Posts
It's pretty likely, Im just wondering how you guys will cope. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:48 lostusername123 wrote: It's pretty likely, Im just wondering how you guys will cope. It's also likely that Rogue will win. I don't mind Serral winning, he'll need it to stay in 'Greatest of LOTV' contention, I just think that putting him on the level that he is in 2019 is just wrong and inaccurate, and he is not as good anymore, based on his results. | ||
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lostusername123
47 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:50 AzAlexZ wrote: It's also likely that Rogue will win. I don't mind him winning, he'll need it to stay in GOAT contention, I just think that putting him on the level that he is in 2019 is just wrong and inaccurate If rogue hits cure/innovation he is the underdog. So he's not likely to win. Serral has a very very good chance of winning, now that the only player that has a good record recently vs him is gone. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:51 lostusername123 wrote: If rogue hits cure/innovation he is the underdog. So he's not likely to win. Serral has a very very good chance of winning, now that the only player that has a good record recently vs him is gone. Just because Rogue doesn't usually beat inno or Cure doesn't mean he can't. just like when Maru won vs Trap in Group stage, Trap usually beats Maru, and Maru won. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:27 JJH777 wrote: So you admit that events with $30k or less prize pools are worthless? You realize that removes like 5 of Serral's premiere victories? Suddenly his trophy list is even more mediocre. If you are saying it's worthless because it's a group stage match that's very flawed when it easily could have been the difference between him starting in the losers bracket and winners bracket since he had not played Parting yet. Serral was already in, Rogue was already out. PartinG-Serral was going to decide what would have happened. | ||
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lostusername123
47 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:53 AzAlexZ wrote: Just because Rogue doesn't usually beat inno or Cure doesn't mean he can't. just like when Maru won vs Trap in Group stage, Trap usually beats Maru, and Maru won. It's just unlikely my dude. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:46 lostusername123 wrote: When Serral wins this, whats going to be the excuse? We don't need an excuse because no one who's arguing against you is calling Serral bad or saying he has no chance to win this event. We are saying Rogues list of trophies is better and Serral has no place in a goat discussion. Serral is probably going to win this event is personally consider him the favorite especially with how hard cross server TvZ is. That doesn't make him equal to Rogue in terms of list of accomplishments. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:53 Xain0n wrote: Serral was already in, Rogue was already out. PartinG-Serral was going to decide what would have happened. Assuming map score is the tiebreaker you are incorrect. If Serral beats Rogue and loses to Parting he is still in the winners bracket. The only way he gets to the losers bracket is by losing to both. | ||
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lostusername123
47 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:56 JJH777 wrote: We don't need an excuse because no one who's arguing against you is calling Serral bad or saying he has no chance to win this event. We are saying Rogues list of trophies is better and Serral has no place in a goat discussion. Serral is probably going to win this event is personally consider him the favorite especially with how hard cross server TvZ is. That doesn't make him equal to Rogue in terms of list of accomplishments. God you move the goal posts so much, initially it was about best TvZ. Serral's claim to goatness in this short period and low amount of chances of titles vs Koreans has never been about trophy count, it has been simply by pure dominance in win%, whatever tournament he enters, he's the favourite. You don't need an excuse, but you give the pre-excuse of latency, nice. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:50 AzAlexZ wrote: It's also likely that Rogue will win. I don't mind Serral winning, he'll need it to stay in 'Greatest of LOTV' contention, I just think that putting him on the level that he is in 2019 is just wrong and inaccurate, and he is not as good anymore, based on his results. I don't remember you being that korea-centric or that fond of Rogue. Serral in 2020 is a "mere" top player and arguably #2 non korean, a position worse than the one he had in 2019 when he was basically a primus inter pares at the top of Sc2, which is in turn worse than being the unbeatable dominator of Starcraft that Serral was in 2018 after he rose. He still has better odds to win a tournaments against koreans than peak Neeb ever had and he might still be the favourite to win KoB in a very even scenario. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:46 lostusername123 wrote: When Serral wins this, whats going to be the excuse? Serral dodged The One True GOAT Reynor. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:56 JJH777 wrote: We don't need an excuse because no one who's arguing against you is calling Serral bad or saying he has no chance to win this event. We are saying Rogues list of trophies is better and Serral has no place in a goat discussion. Serral is probably going to win this event is personally consider him the favorite especially with how hard cross server TvZ is. That doesn't make him equal to Rogue in terms of list of accomplishments. Rogue is not and shouldn't be on any GOAT discussion. Serral's career is better than Rogue's even if Rogue's average victory is considerably more prestigious. We'll never agree on that so feel free not to continue the discussion. I had to counterbalance your claim with my claim. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
 King of Battles | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
2 foreigners vs GSL. They're all super, super strong, too. Exciting games are ahead. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 09 2020 12:08 Xain0n wrote: Rogue is not and shouldn't be on any GOAT discussion. Serral's career is better than Rogue's even if Rogue's average victory is considerably more prestigious. We'll never agree on that so feel free not to continue the discussion. I had to counterbalance your claim with my claim. Serral only played for 3 years full time so he can't be Greatest of all time, he can be greatest in LOTV, also you can't discount Rogue's career in PL, his individual resume may be bad in HOTS but he was a beast in PL | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 09 2020 12:02 Xain0n wrote: I don't remember you being that korea-centric or that fond of Rogue. Serral in 2020 is a "mere" top player and arguably #2 non korean, a position worse than the one he had in 2019 when he was basically a primus inter pares at the top of Sc2, which is in turn worse than being the unbeatable dominator of Starcraft that Serral was in 2018 after he rose. He still has better odds to win a tournaments against koreans than peak Neeb ever had and he might still be the favourite to win KoB in a very even scenario. lol I'm not I hate Rogue's playstyle but I still think he has a better resume than Serral. Also I am a much older fan of SC2 than this account because I lost the password for my old account. I have always been an SKT (Rain) and MC fan (Protoss fan cuz I play Protoss) I also watch PL, GSL and SSL in terms of time zones because I am from China it was easier for me. In 2016 I became a Neeb fan but I am no means a foreigner-centric fan. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:46 lostusername123 wrote: When Serral wins this, whats going to be the excuse? What excuse do you want? Since 2017 Blizzcon we had 47 premiere tournaments out of which a zerg player won 31 of them. That 66 %, more than other two races combined. And it's more than other two races combined even if you remove Serral (19 > 16). So what's your excuse that all the talent is accumulated in zergs in the last 3 years? Like we had 6 WC and all have been won by a zerg. Serral makes 38 % of zerg victories, while Maru makes 66 % of the Terran. So funny things start to happen when you want to remove statistical anomalies(e.g. Serral), because then you have to remove Maru and Terrans crumble more than Protoss. It\s not the Flash level of dominance of 1 player as was just shown by removing Serral from the results and the zerg dominance still continues. And no, it\s not reynor either as he has the same amount of victories as Rogue and way less important titles. So, how about that? Is that a good one? edit> statistically speaking if this tournament isn't won by a zerg and having a non zerg finals would be anomally. If this is won by a zerg, be it Serral or Rogue - it's the thing to be expected based purely on them numbers. It appears zergs are just better edit 2> the non-zerg finals refers to the fact that we had 47 finals, 94 players in the finals and 49 of them were zergs. This means that 52 % of finalists were zergs. Again, more than other two races combined, but not by a large margin. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On October 09 2020 16:49 deacon.frost wrote: What excuse do you want? Since 2017 Blizzcon we had 47 premiere tournaments out of which a zerg player won 31 of them. That 66 %, more than other two races combined. And it's more than other two races combined even if you remove Serral (19 > 16). So what's your excuse that all the talent is accumulated in zergs in the last 3 years? Like we had 6 WC and all have been won by a zerg. Serral makes 38 % of zerg victories, while Maru makes 66 % of the Terran. So funny things start to happen when you want to remove statistical anomalies(e.g. Serral), because then you have to remove Maru and Terrans crumble more than Protoss. It\s not the Flash level of dominance of 1 player as was just shown by removing Serral from the results and the zerg dominance still continues. And no, it\s not reynor either as he has the same amount of victories as Rogue and way less important titles. So, how about that? Is that a good one? edit> statistically speaking if this tournament isn't won by a zerg and having a non zerg finals would be anomally. If this is won by a zerg, be it Serral or Rogue - it's the thing to be expected based purely on them numbers. It appears zergs are just better no you don't understand zerg is so weak and its just a coincidence that all the best players happen to play zerg, they are just so brave and honorable | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 09 2020 16:53 starkiller123 wrote: no you don't understand zerg is so weak and its just a coincidence that all the best players happen to play zerg, they are just so brave and honorable like i can understand that Protoss has issues winning things, they at least can get to the finals(21/47 - edit that's 2nd places, add to that 7 victories). But considering Terrans we still have the best players and we got Clem, so we have now more good terrans and yet it's 9 victories over 3 years/47 tournaments and 8 second places. And everybody is still surprised when a Zerg wins  | ||
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