[GSL 2020] Code S - Grand Finals - Page 20

On August 16 2020 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:
My two cents, zerg is by design the most reaction-based race, and right now it has enough tools that it's always the fault of the zerg if he doesn't know that something is coming. This is magnified in PvZ because it's a match-up that relies on compositions more than TvZ does: if your army is good vs their army, you're probably gonna win.

I don't really think any particular unit or comp is the issue, it's the fact that a good zerg is always aware of what's happening long before it has a chance of hurting him significantly, and so he can easily prepare.

On August 16 2020 04:14 rayl991 wrote:
Top Zerg like Reynor and Serral will usually scout often to see whats coming and react accordingly. If they lost the game, its usually their own mistakes and not the brilliance of their opponent

On August 15 2020 21:54 FrkFrJss wrote:
I wonder if some of the pressure of PvZ is a result of the ravager. It seems to me that if Protoss feel their late game is equal or superior to Zerg, then the main issue would be on how to enable Protoss to more readily get to that point in time with less damage. From my limited knowledge and from what I’ve observed, ravagers significantly decrease the effectiveness of sentries, particularly the force field. Now, I know the FF has historically been the second most hated ability after warp gate, but it’s still in the game.

Thus, perhaps there could be a nerf to corrosive bile to reduce the breaking of forcefield to half. I’m not sure how that would work given the model of the forcefield, but I think Protoss needs slightly less gimmicky ways of defense that are not overcharges or batteries. If we restore a bit more utility to the FF, then Protoss take less damage overall and make it to the late game easier. It also means banelings can remain unchanged.

Alternatively, if the FF change is not good, I think corrosive bike could be nerfed to do a bit less damage against shields. It’s inelegant, but it does decrease the effectiveness of ravagers against Protoss.

On August 16 2020 04:45 Back2Back wrote:


This is actually the exact conclusion I came up with as well. Protoss units are more expensive and beefier than any other race but they are also extremely fragile and easy to over-run. This is why they have the Forcefield ability. It allows them to control space a little bit.

Protoss does not struggle against Terran because Terran doesn't have a mass produced unit that can nullify this ability (until ghosts which are high tech and expensive). Ravagers allow them to break down those Forcefields too easily. You can change the way that bile interacts with Forcefield which wont affect TvP.

On August 16 2020 05:32 Niravroh wrote:
I know this is an overused argument, but is it really too far to ask if Zerg is being flattered by higher skilled players? Sure, soO and Dark got some championships last year, but zerg has been nerfed multiple times since then. If we're looking at EPT rankings, then zerg isn't doing particularly well.

Zerg ranks from the top 20 in the EPT Korea standings:

Rogue #1
Serral #10
Dark #11
Solar #13
DongRaeGu #14
soO # 15
Reynor #19

Average zerg rank: 11.9
Average terran rank: 7.4
Average protoss rank: 11.3


Zerg ranks from the top 20 in the EPT Circuit standings:

Serral #1
Reynor #2
Lambo #12
Elazer #14
RiSky #15
Vanya #17

Average zerg rank: 10.2
Average terran rank: 10
Average protoss rank: 11.3


These numbers don't seem to indicate that zerg is disproportionately unbalanced. It's Rogue, Serral, and Reynor winning a bunch of stuff, and then the rest of the zergs floundering way down in the standings. Idk what the solution is, but I would have expected that if zerg was so imba we would see more zergs being generally successful, even if they're not winning championships.

On August 16 2020 07:12 Bagration wrote:
Any recommended games to watch?

On August 16 2020 07:22 Niravroh wrote:



Literally not a single one, if you're interested in good back and forth games.

On August 16 2020 07:31 Bagration wrote:


Oh shit lol, so this was an early 2011-type GSL finals huh? Damn

On August 16 2020 07:35 BisuDagger wrote:

Maybe based on stats if you include all maps, but maps play a huge role in balancing BW. Also, it's clear cut why a Protoss lost in BW and there is always a way things could have been done differently. Who has the advantage also oscillates a lot through a 15-20 minute game. You rarely see a game in SC2 where Protoss can lose an advantage and then gain it back. Watching a TvZ in SC2 is the best thing ever. Since WoL the matchup has had tons of back and forth metas.Since LoTV, PvZ just really hasn't ever been that way. I personally loathe thinking either this PvZ will be a blowout or Protoss will have done something magical like Classic vs Dark.