On August 04 2019 02:52 Xain0n wrote: Serral in 2019 really isn't as clutch as he used to be; Stats played very well and deserved, those stupid teasing comments are so needless; is Stats a superior player overall? I highly doubt it.
I don't mind Stats winning the tournament for Aiur, I would be disappointed if he ended up losing to Solar after what he showed against Serral.
Comeon is it that hard for you to admit Stats looked superior in this series? Its not like he landslided him, it was a close series but Stats just looked better, I think everyone saw that. And who is overall better that is quite pointless to discuss they are both so insanely good , right at the top of the food-chain
Yeah I don't see how anyone can watch that series and try to say Stats wasn't the superior player. Even the games Serral won weren't that impressive, one was a dumb ling rush that won because Stats hadn't walled off yet, and the other had zerg reach 30 infestors almost uncontested, which is a scenario they have no business losing.
You wouldn't be waving this "superior player" nonsense if Stats beat a top korean Zerg 3-2 in a close series, I don't remember Classic being called superior when he barely edged out Dark 4-3 in Code S season 2 earlier this year.
You guys eagerly wait for Serral to lose to restore your idea of korean supremacy, forgetting no top player ever was winning every tournament(actually, nobody before Serral last year did since May); you will never deal with the fact Serral won BlizzCon and are overzealous in bashing Serral every time he loses, no other top player is welcomed with such negative feedback on this forum.
This time it was actually mild, but take a look at what happened after WESG.
If Stats had beaten Dark in the exact same fashion, you bet I'd have called him out as being the better player there. I remember when he beat Dark 4-3 in the super cup last year I was trashing Dark for how he bad played. And it's not like I'm bashing Serral here either, all I said was Stats played much better. Although now I think about it Serral wasn't that impressive at all, the two games he won are games no zerg should really lose.
I don't recall bashing Serral after WeSG either (this year at least, he deserved it last year).
And lastly, the reason you think Serral is met with seemingly negative feedback here is because he gets more positive feedback than he deserves a lot of the time, especially from you who seems to overrate Serral in every thread you appear. If you post rather far out opinions on any matter, you can expect people to meet it with the contrary.
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
Obviously, scouting it would've been better than not scouting it but Serral was in a rough position that whole game anyway, and was just doing his best to make it as scrappy as possible. I imagine if Serral did scout it, Stats would've just not killed that loser base and done the same timing and killed Serral with a much better army. RR/SH is essentially an all in, and it didn't get critical damage until it was too late. Serral would've needed a miracle to win that one, and he's pretty good at pulling those off, but it's fair to say he was pretty far behind for most of that game.
Yeah I agree that it's hard to transition from that style, but that's mostly in a standard game. Stats was not playing standard, he wasn't getting +3 so he could squeeze in surprise tech, which needed to pay off. I agree Stats was ahead, but if the carriers had gotten scouted, I don't think his lead would've lasted
What? I mean +3 is nice but he didn't even need the carrier tech to pay off, he was so ahead after maintaining 4 bases most of the game with minimal losses against a style that literally needs to do critical damage. Once you have enough immortal storm and archons and slowly close the supply gap, zerg no longer can fight efficiently. Idk how Stats' lead ends if the carriers are scouted, the carriers weren't his lead, they were just his fancy way of finishing the game.
You're overestimating Stats' lead. Before the carriers were out, he lost his 2 mining bases long distance mining all the way to his natural cause his 3rd and 4th were denied. He had no way to push onto the creep, he had no bank, while serral had 2000/2000 resources. His carrier tech at that point was the lead
On August 04 2019 03:41 MarianoSC2 wrote: Did Stats just figure out PvZ? I am truly lost for words from how amazing he is playing today. Wow.
Btw Swarmhosts look totally useless once P gets storm...
The koreans showed this new style at HSC and basically everyone is playing like this now so this isn't a new thing. We saw the impact of HSC on the PvZs at WCS Summer too.
But Stats just executes it on another level, it's insane. It really feels like he's gone up a gear in terms of his mechanical ability.
On August 04 2019 03:41 MarianoSC2 wrote: Did Stats just figure out PvZ? I am truly lost for words from how amazing he is playing today. Wow.
Btw Swarmhosts look totally useless once P gets storm...
He’s pretty good that’s for sure. Granted I felt the same at Katowice with how clean he played but soO took that.
Not sure I can think of a player who relatively struggles on ladder while streaming and then plays so godlike at tournaments quite as much as Stats does
On August 04 2019 02:52 Xain0n wrote: Serral in 2019 really isn't as clutch as he used to be; Stats played very well and deserved, those stupid teasing comments are so needless; is Stats a superior player overall? I highly doubt it.
I don't mind Stats winning the tournament for Aiur, I would be disappointed if he ended up losing to Solar after what he showed against Serral.
Comeon is it that hard for you to admit Stats looked superior in this series? Its not like he landslided him, it was a close series but Stats just looked better, I think everyone saw that. And who is overall better that is quite pointless to discuss they are both so insanely good , right at the top of the food-chain
Yeah I don't see how anyone can watch that series and try to say Stats wasn't the superior player. Even the games Serral won weren't that impressive, one was a dumb ling rush that won because Stats hadn't walled off yet, and the other had zerg reach 30 infestors almost uncontested, which is a scenario they have no business losing.
You wouldn't be waving this "superior player" nonsense if Stats beat a top korean Zerg 3-2 in a close series, I don't remember Classic being called superior when he barely edged out Dark 4-3 in Code S season 2 earlier this year.
You guys eagerly wait for Serral to lose to restore your idea of korean supremacy, forgetting no top player ever was winning every tournament(actually, nobody before Serral last year did since May); you will never deal with the fact Serral won BlizzCon and are overzealous in bashing Serral every time he loses, no other top player is welcomed with such negative feedback on this forum.
This time it was actually mild, but take a look at what happened after WESG.
If Stats had beaten Dark in the exact same fashion, you bet I'd have called him out as being the better player there. I remember when he beat Dark 4-3 in the super cup last year I was trashing Dark for how he bad played. And it's not like I'm bashing Serral here either, all I said was Stats played much better. Although now I think about it Serral wasn't that impressive at all, the two games he won are games no zerg should really lose.
I don't recall bashing Serral after WeSG either (this year at least, he deserved it last year).
And lastly, the reason you think Serral is met with seemingly negative feedback here is because he gets more positive feedback than he deserves a lot of the time, especially from you who seems to overrate Serral in every thread you appear. If you post rather far out opinions on any matter, you can expect people to meet it with the contrary.
This literally can't be right since I registered an account to this forum well after people started badmouthing him; maybe you didn't, but many insulted Serral after WESG this year. You guys don't perceive Serral as just a top player, you perceive him as a non korean top player.
I consider superiority something else than playing slightly better throughout a series, for me to say someone looked superior there must have been a stomp, and even then Sc2 is a game volatile enough to render this kind of comments someway pointless. I am not overrating Serral, I could say you underrate him because he plays in WCS; also, have you got any idea about how much you venerate Maru? I saw nobody saying Patience and Inno looked like the better player the day he was eliminated from Code S, and I surely weren't there saying that.
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
Obviously, scouting it would've been better than not scouting it but Serral was in a rough position that whole game anyway, and was just doing his best to make it as scrappy as possible. I imagine if Serral did scout it, Stats would've just not killed that loser base and done the same timing and killed Serral with a much better army. RR/SH is essentially an all in, and it didn't get critical damage until it was too late. Serral would've needed a miracle to win that one, and he's pretty good at pulling those off, but it's fair to say he was pretty far behind for most of that game.
Yeah I agree that it's hard to transition from that style, but that's mostly in a standard game. Stats was not playing standard, he wasn't getting +3 so he could squeeze in surprise tech, which needed to pay off. I agree Stats was ahead, but if the carriers had gotten scouted, I don't think his lead would've lasted
What? I mean +3 is nice but he didn't even need the carrier tech to pay off, he was so ahead after maintaining 4 bases most of the game with minimal losses against a style that literally needs to do critical damage. Once you have enough immortal storm and archons and slowly close the supply gap, zerg no longer can fight efficiently. Idk how Stats' lead ends if the carriers are scouted, the carriers weren't his lead, they were just his fancy way of finishing the game.
You're overestimating Stats' lead. Before the carriers were out, he lost his 2 mining bases long distance mining all the way to his natural cause his 3rd and 4th were denied. He had no way to push onto the creep, he had no bank, while serral had 2000/2000 resources. His carrier tech at that point was the lead
his 3rd and 4th weren't denied. they were just sniped at one point
he had plenty of to push onto creep. the only thing preventing him from really pushing was the constant threat of swarm hosts. serral was barely keeping stats at bay
stats' lead was his immaculate defense + harassment. Serral's all in failed
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
Obviously, scouting it would've been better than not scouting it but Serral was in a rough position that whole game anyway, and was just doing his best to make it as scrappy as possible. I imagine if Serral did scout it, Stats would've just not killed that loser base and done the same timing and killed Serral with a much better army. RR/SH is essentially an all in, and it didn't get critical damage until it was too late. Serral would've needed a miracle to win that one, and he's pretty good at pulling those off, but it's fair to say he was pretty far behind for most of that game.
Yeah I agree that it's hard to transition from that style, but that's mostly in a standard game. Stats was not playing standard, he wasn't getting +3 so he could squeeze in surprise tech, which needed to pay off. I agree Stats was ahead, but if the carriers had gotten scouted, I don't think his lead would've lasted
What? I mean +3 is nice but he didn't even need the carrier tech to pay off, he was so ahead after maintaining 4 bases most of the game with minimal losses against a style that literally needs to do critical damage. Once you have enough immortal storm and archons and slowly close the supply gap, zerg no longer can fight efficiently. Idk how Stats' lead ends if the carriers are scouted, the carriers weren't his lead, they were just his fancy way of finishing the game.
You're overestimating Stats' lead. Before the carriers were out, he lost his 2 mining bases long distance mining all the way to his natural cause his 3rd and 4th were denied. He had no way to push onto the creep, he had no bank, while serral had 2000/2000 resources. His carrier tech at that point was the lead
Again, that was the only time Serral did good damage with the Swarm Hosts and it came after the "critical" point where it gives you an insurmountable lead to kill the Protoss. My point is he absolutely could push onto the creep, he'd gone past the point where he's worried about his army, because the immortals and storm scale so well and suddenly you don't lose anything anymore (case in point, that Solar vs Stats game that just happened)
I don't think I'm overestimating his lead. He had a very good lead, which Serral managed to close temporarily, but it didn't matter because this style by Serral is so all in. You don't need a bank vs SH style, you just need an army, and Stats had a very good one regardless of the carriers.
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
Obviously, scouting it would've been better than not scouting it but Serral was in a rough position that whole game anyway, and was just doing his best to make it as scrappy as possible. I imagine if Serral did scout it, Stats would've just not killed that loser base and done the same timing and killed Serral with a much better army. RR/SH is essentially an all in, and it didn't get critical damage until it was too late. Serral would've needed a miracle to win that one, and he's pretty good at pulling those off, but it's fair to say he was pretty far behind for most of that game.
Yeah I agree that it's hard to transition from that style, but that's mostly in a standard game. Stats was not playing standard, he wasn't getting +3 so he could squeeze in surprise tech, which needed to pay off. I agree Stats was ahead, but if the carriers had gotten scouted, I don't think his lead would've lasted
What? I mean +3 is nice but he didn't even need the carrier tech to pay off, he was so ahead after maintaining 4 bases most of the game with minimal losses against a style that literally needs to do critical damage. Once you have enough immortal storm and archons and slowly close the supply gap, zerg no longer can fight efficiently. Idk how Stats' lead ends if the carriers are scouted, the carriers weren't his lead, they were just his fancy way of finishing the game.
You're overestimating Stats' lead. Before the carriers were out, he lost his 2 mining bases long distance mining all the way to his natural cause his 3rd and 4th were denied. He had no way to push onto the creep, he had no bank, while serral had 2000/2000 resources. His carrier tech at that point was the lead
his 3rd and 4th weren't denied. they were just sniped at one point
he had plenty of to push onto creep. the only thing preventing him from really pushing was the constant threat of swarm hosts. serral was barely keeping stats at bay
stats' lead was his immaculate defense + harassment. Serral's all in failed
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/llxkrB6.png)
