On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
Obviously, scouting it would've been better than not scouting it but Serral was in a rough position that whole game anyway, and was just doing his best to make it as scrappy as possible. I imagine if Serral did scout it, Stats would've just not killed that loser base and done the same timing and killed Serral with a much better army. RR/SH is essentially an all in, and it didn't get critical damage until it was too late. Serral would've needed a miracle to win that one, and he's pretty good at pulling those off, but it's fair to say he was pretty far behind for most of that game.
Yeah I agree that it's hard to transition from that style, but that's mostly in a standard game. Stats was not playing standard, he wasn't getting +3 so he could squeeze in surprise tech, which needed to pay off. I agree Stats was ahead, but if the carriers had gotten scouted, I don't think his lead would've lasted
On August 04 2019 02:52 Xain0n wrote: Serral in 2019 really isn't as clutch as he used to be; Stats played very well and deserved, those stupid teasing comments are so needless; is Stats a superior player overall? I highly doubt it.
I don't mind Stats winning the tournament for Aiur, I would be disappointed if he ended up losing to Solar after what he showed against Serral.
Comeon is it that hard for you to admit Stats looked superior in this series? Its not like he landslided him, it was a close series but Stats just looked better, I think everyone saw that. And who is overall better that is quite pointless to discuss they are both so insanely good , right at the top of the food-chain
No, I won't because it didn't really seem to me Stats was superior, he played slightly better and won; I had the impression Solar was superior to Zest in their series.
He played slightly better and won, isn't that exactly what he's saying?
There are ways of saying it, ofc I give allowances to non-natives here!
It’s common we say ‘the best player/team won on the day’ as a phrase, which restricts it to who played better in a particular match.
Saying ‘the superior/better player won’ of course literally means the same, but also infers the winner is better overall or a level above. You hear it a lot when the heroic underdog plays well but ultimately falls short against a more illustrious opponent.
Language is a weird thing, plus people have different cultural experiences too. For example as a big consumer of regular sportball certain stock phrases used there a lot take on some meaning to me that maybe they don’t with others
Based on the qualifying statements after what he said, it seemed pretty clear to me that he meant he was the superior player in this specific series. Language is weird ofc, but idk how to read that differently than from exactly what I said. IMO, Xain0n's reading of what he said seems a bit impulsive and missed the point.
On August 04 2019 02:52 Xain0n wrote: Serral in 2019 really isn't as clutch as he used to be; Stats played very well and deserved, those stupid teasing comments are so needless; is Stats a superior player overall? I highly doubt it.
I don't mind Stats winning the tournament for Aiur, I would be disappointed if he ended up losing to Solar after what he showed against Serral.
Comeon is it that hard for you to admit Stats looked superior in this series? Its not like he landslided him, it was a close series but Stats just looked better, I think everyone saw that. And who is overall better that is quite pointless to discuss they are both so insanely good , right at the top of the food-chain
Yeah I don't see how anyone can watch that series and try to say Stats wasn't the superior player. Even the games Serral won weren't that impressive, one was a dumb ling rush that won because Stats hadn't walled off yet, and the other had zerg reach 30 infestors almost uncontested, which is a scenario they have no business losing.
You wouldn't be waving this "superior player" nonsense if Stats beat a top korean Zerg 3-2 in a close series, I don't remember Classic being called superior when he barely edged out Dark 4-3 in season 2.
Let them have their fun.
No fun allowed, Starcraft is serious business.
One thing that really annoys me about interviews is just generic boring questions, I feel the scene really misses out on having proper questions about the games themselves and the thought processes and strategies.
For example I’m really curious if Stats was planning a carrier transition and consolidating his defensive spot and transition, or if he was trying to do a surprise base snipe with a small number of carriers, or if he was thinking of making the tech transition but spotted something that lead to him on the fly deciding to send those 3 carriers out.
We never get knowledgable pro/high level players asking winners about the games themselves and I think that would be a great addition to productions.
If we had Drogo asking all the interview questions the schedule would get ruined, but it would be worth it.
Absolutely.
I think it would be fascinating though, especially with the Koreans. We have foreign shows and whatnot where players get to talk about their thoughts on the game but we don’t really get as much of that with the Koreans.
On the other hand we wouldn’t get Smix etc doing the interviews, but you win some you lose some.
One of the funniest and most interesting parts of HSC was Drogo going for a minute and half long explanation asking Zest about why he chrono-ed his gateway after going for a probe scout after pylon which meant that he would know from the amount of gas mined the barracks timing and would know that reaper could only arrive a few seconds later which meant the chrono wasn't needed. And Zest just answered that Drogo had taught him something.
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
He didn't really have a window to go for corruptors earlier. He took enough damage from the harass that he had to keep Stats pinned back with the roach/ravager/swarmhosts (and he did a good job at that), which made transitioning really difficult. He could have tried, but that would mean risking just dying from Stats pushing across the map. Maybe that would have been better, but it's a very difficult call in-game.
I don't think Stats could've stopped a Spire switch cause he didn't really have the initiative. His position was such that posturing around the edges of the creep was the best he could do in terms of being offensive. The unscouted carriers allowed him to get a tempo lead and deny Serral. If the carriers were scouted Serral could've sacrificed his tempo advantage for tech IMO, but alas
How are you supposed to support a spire switch while keeping enough of a ground force to combat Stats' immortal archon templar ball on 60 drones?
Genuine question, like I said, I haven't watched Sc2 in 7 years, but I have trouble understanding how you're supposed to transition from a build like that.
Both players were on low econ 60 workers, so the same question applies to Stats: how can he transition to carriers while keeping at bay Serral's maxed out army? Neither could afford a standard tech switch, so Stats' switch needed to be a surprise to pay off, but if it got scouted Serral could've responded instead of getting tunneling claws or whatever he was doing there
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
Obviously, scouting it would've been better than not scouting it but Serral was in a rough position that whole game anyway, and was just doing his best to make it as scrappy as possible. I imagine if Serral did scout it, Stats would've just not killed that loser base and done the same timing and killed Serral with a much better army. RR/SH is essentially an all in, and it didn't get critical damage until it was too late. Serral would've needed a miracle to win that one, and he's pretty good at pulling those off, but it's fair to say he was pretty far behind for most of that game.
Yeah I agree that it's hard to transition from that style, but that's mostly in a standard game. Stats was not playing standard, he wasn't getting +3 so he could squeeze in surprise tech, which needed to pay off. I agree Stats was ahead, but if the carriers had gotten scouted, I don't think his lead would've lasted
What? I mean +3 is nice but he didn't even need the carrier tech to pay off, he was so ahead after maintaining 4 bases most of the game with minimal losses against a style that literally needs to do critical damage. Once you have enough immortal storm and archons and slowly close the supply gap, zerg no longer can fight efficiently. Idk how Stats' lead ends if the carriers are scouted, the carriers weren't his lead, they were just his fancy way of finishing the game.
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
He didn't really have a window to go for corruptors earlier. He took enough damage from the harass that he had to keep Stats pinned back with the roach/ravager/swarmhosts (and he did a good job at that), which made transitioning really difficult. He could have tried, but that would mean risking just dying from Stats pushing across the map. Maybe that would have been better, but it's a very difficult call in-game.
I don't think Stats could've stopped a Spire switch cause he didn't really have the initiative. His position was such that posturing around the edges of the creep was the best he could do in terms of being offensive. The unscouted carriers allowed him to get a tempo lead and deny Serral. If the carriers were scouted Serral could've sacrificed his tempo advantage for tech IMO, but alas
How are you supposed to support a spire switch while keeping enough of a ground force to combat Stats' immortal archon templar ball on 60 drones?
Genuine question, like I said, I haven't watched Sc2 in 7 years, but I have trouble understanding how you're supposed to transition from a build like that.
Both players were on low econ 60 workers, so the same question applies to Stats: how can he transition to carriers while keeping at bay Serral's maxed out army? Neither could afford a standard tech switch, so Stats' switch needed to be a surprise to pay off, but if it got scouted Serral could've responded instead of getting tunneling claws or whatever he was doing there
He could transition because he was 2000 resource more cost efficient up to that point and did early damage with the adept and oracles.
On August 04 2019 02:52 Xain0n wrote: Serral in 2019 really isn't as clutch as he used to be; Stats played very well and deserved, those stupid teasing comments are so needless; is Stats a superior player overall? I highly doubt it.
I don't mind Stats winning the tournament for Aiur, I would be disappointed if he ended up losing to Solar after what he showed against Serral.
Comeon is it that hard for you to admit Stats looked superior in this series? Its not like he landslided him, it was a close series but Stats just looked better, I think everyone saw that. And who is overall better that is quite pointless to discuss they are both so insanely good , right at the top of the food-chain
Yeah I don't see how anyone can watch that series and try to say Stats wasn't the superior player. Even the games Serral won weren't that impressive, one was a dumb ling rush that won because Stats hadn't walled off yet, and the other had zerg reach 30 infestors almost uncontested, which is a scenario they have no business losing.
You wouldn't be waving this "superior player" nonsense if Stats beat a top korean Zerg 3-2 in a close series, I don't remember Classic being called superior when he barely edged out Dark 4-3 in season 2.
Let them have their fun.
No fun allowed, Starcraft is serious business.
One thing that really annoys me about interviews is just generic boring questions, I feel the scene really misses out on having proper questions about the games themselves and the thought processes and strategies.
For example I’m really curious if Stats was planning a carrier transition and consolidating his defensive spot and transition, or if he was trying to do a surprise base snipe with a small number of carriers, or if he was thinking of making the tech transition but spotted something that lead to him on the fly deciding to send those 3 carriers out.
We never get knowledgable pro/high level players asking winners about the games themselves and I think that would be a great addition to productions.
If we had Drogo asking all the interview questions the schedule would get ruined, but it would be worth it.
Absolutely.
I think it would be fascinating though, especially with the Koreans. We have foreign shows and whatnot where players get to talk about their thoughts on the game but we don’t really get as much of that with the Koreans.
On the other hand we wouldn’t get Smix etc doing the interviews, but you win some you lose some.
One of the funniest and most interesting parts of HSC was Drogo going for a minute and half long explanation asking Zest about why he chrono-ed his gateway after going for a probe scout after pylon which meant that he would know from the amount of gas mined the barracks timing and would know that reaper could only arrive a few seconds later which meant the chrono wasn't needed. And Zest just answered that Drogo had taught him something.
Haha beautiful.
I wonder too at this high level how much players do subconsciously without being able to articulate exactly why they’re doing it, the fabled Starsense seems to be more subconscious than something deliberate
On August 04 2019 02:45 Kommander wrote: Serral spent WAYYYY too much time on Lair tech and Roach/Ravager. Got too bloodthirsty and tried to kill Stats who was on a solid 3-base economy. As usual, Stats defended brilliantly while harassing Serral's economy, and that's what allowed him to outpace Serral on econ and tech and just kill him outright.
He didn't spend way too much time, that's just the way that build works. It's basically a fancy all in, you can question the choice of build but he really didn't do a lot wrong in terms of execution, it is a bloodthirsty build and there's no way to naturally transition if you don't do critical damage. Stats just played it too well, like he played insanely well.
Yeah if he knew about carriers he'd have been fine. He lost to Gumiho in IEM also because of unscouted late game battlecruisers
He had no response to carriers either way. Stats could transition into them because of how well he defended the Swarmhosts, while serral had no real way of transitioning.
IMO if he had corruptors ready, Serral would've had a good chance cause his game plan was to snipe the upper left base while distracting at the natural, which would keep him in the game. But he had no response to carriers sniping his lower bases and he couldn't afford that
He didn't really have a window to go for corruptors earlier. He took enough damage from the harass that he had to keep Stats pinned back with the roach/ravager/swarmhosts (and he did a good job at that), which made transitioning really difficult. He could have tried, but that would mean risking just dying from Stats pushing across the map. Maybe that would have been better, but it's a very difficult call in-game.
I don't think Stats could've stopped a Spire switch cause he didn't really have the initiative. His position was such that posturing around the edges of the creep was the best he could do in terms of being offensive. The unscouted carriers allowed him to get a tempo lead and deny Serral. If the carriers were scouted Serral could've sacrificed his tempo advantage for tech IMO, but alas
How are you supposed to support a spire switch while keeping enough of a ground force to combat Stats' immortal archon templar ball on 60 drones?
Genuine question, like I said, I haven't watched Sc2 in 7 years, but I have trouble understanding how you're supposed to transition from a build like that.
Both players were on low econ 60 workers, so the same question applies to Stats: how can he transition to carriers while keeping at bay Serral's maxed out army? Neither could afford a standard tech switch, so Stats' switch needed to be a surprise to pay off, but if it got scouted Serral could've responded instead of getting tunneling claws or whatever he was doing there
You can't compare the econ like that, Stats had very good econ for a RR/SH game, if the Protoss has 80 probes in a game like this then you've done something extremely wrong. You make it sound like Serral was playing H/L/B, SH styles don't apply by the same rules and Serral's "maxed army" is a complete facade (again, this is an all in). Stats had the ability to transition because he was maintaining a playable economy against an all in that didn't work.
EPT
