On April 03 2019 18:54 The_Templar wrote: I never liked watching strategies like this, but whatever. It works. Feels kind of confusing to watch mass immortals against queens/lings though.
I mean I don't like a cheese in general, but at least this one wasn't fast and it was a struggle, so it was kind of exciting.
That was still a great defense by Classic. There is no good unit to make against that much queens, air units are obviously not the answer, no unit in the game has bonus damage against queens I believe.
On April 03 2019 18:56 fastr wrote: That was still a great defense by Classic. There is no good unit to make against that much queens, air units are obviously not the answer, no unit in the game has bonus damage against queens I believe.
Classic has done what he has wanted to achieve i think, Dark is now playing differently. Forced into making units way earlier than he wants and is now behind/equal on worker counts. Classic this game is going to have economic edge it seems. Smart
On April 03 2019 19:33 Charoisaur wrote: Infestors aren't bad but when the rest of your army consists of only roach vs mass immortal it obviously won't work
Yeah, I feel like Dark needed a lot more time if that strategy was going to work.
On April 03 2019 19:33 Charoisaur wrote: Infestors aren't bad but when the rest of your army consists of only roach vs mass immortal it obviously won't work
I think Darks strat was fine after the muta into infestors, but heed needed to neural the Immortals as well, he literally just took 4 Archons and they just didn't really do anything. Taking 2-3 Immortals out of that fight probably would have worked wonders. Then again maybe just going Roach Hydra also would have worked better...
On April 03 2019 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Holy smokes the immortals are PUMPING lol
Countered everything except for the big dogs. I got hyped when I saw Dark target the HTs with the neurals then realised it was roaches vs 8 immortals.
Yeah that was pretty much the same as me. I thought would great strat, then was like oh wait Archons not doing much whilst neural'd
Neuraling the immortals is great in theory obviously, but in this case he couldn't realistically neural them because the immortals were behind the archons. If he neurals the immortals, he has to get his infestors closer and would get them smashed by the archons.
On April 03 2019 19:34 Pandemona wrote: I think Darks strat was fine after the muta into infestors, but heed needed to neural the Immortals as well, he literally just took 4 Archons and they just didn't really do anything. Taking 2-3 Immortals out of that fight probably would have worked wonders. Then again maybe just going Roach Hydra also would have worked better...
How do you neural immortals when they are behind several archons?
On April 03 2019 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Holy smokes the immortals are PUMPING lol
Countered everything except for the big dogs. I got hyped when I saw Dark target the HTs with the neurals then realised it was roaches vs 8 immortals.
Yeah that was pretty much the same as me. I thought would great strat, then was like oh wait Archons not doing much whilst neural'd
Neuraling the immortals is great in theory obviously, but in this case he couldn't realistically neural them because the immortals were behind the archons. If he neurals the immortals, he has to get his infestors closer and would get them smashed by the archons.
Also very true, so in reality that strat would have taken some really big outplay on behalf of Dark to make it work. He would have had to probably have burrow infestors at the very least or do some very sick counter surround or something lol.
On April 03 2019 19:34 Pandemona wrote: I think Darks strat was fine after the muta into infestors, but heed needed to neural the Immortals as well, he literally just took 4 Archons and they just didn't really do anything. Taking 2-3 Immortals out of that fight probably would have worked wonders. Then again maybe just going Roach Hydra also would have worked better...
How do you neural immortals when they are behind several archons?
Well he wrapped around with the roaches to the back or they came from the back/side whilst the infestors were at the front with the archons no? But yeah i guess burrow was needed.
On April 03 2019 19:33 Charoisaur wrote: Infestors aren't bad but when the rest of your army consists of only roach vs mass immortal it obviously won't work
Maybe controlling the immortals?
Nah, Archons and HTs would just kill the Infestors then, the reason this worked is because Archons are so big that other units couldn't pass through them to the Infestors, and they killed HTs quickly.
On April 03 2019 19:33 Charoisaur wrote: Infestors aren't bad but when the rest of your army consists of only roach vs mass immortal it obviously won't work
Maybe controlling the immortals?
Nah, Archons and HTs would just kill the Infestors then, the reason this worked is because Archons are so big that other units couldn't pass through them to the Infestors, and they killed HTs quickly.
The way classic went for third it would have been possible from the highground of 2nd? But that's just theory. Save mutas, neural archons, kill immortals, we can theory craft mucho
On April 03 2019 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Holy smokes the immortals are PUMPING lol
Countered everything except for the big dogs. I got hyped when I saw Dark target the HTs with the neurals then realised it was roaches vs 8 immortals.
Yeah that was pretty much the same as me. I thought would great strat, then was like oh wait Archons not doing much whilst neural'd
Neuraling the immortals is great in theory obviously, but in this case he couldn't realistically neural them because the immortals were behind the archons. If he neurals the immortals, he has to get his infestors closer and would get them smashed by the archons.
Also very true, so in reality that strat would have taken some really big outplay on behalf of Dark to make it work. He would have had to probably have burrow infestors at the very least or do some very sick counter surround or something lol.
On April 03 2019 19:34 Pandemona wrote: I think Darks strat was fine after the muta into infestors, but heed needed to neural the Immortals as well, he literally just took 4 Archons and they just didn't really do anything. Taking 2-3 Immortals out of that fight probably would have worked wonders. Then again maybe just going Roach Hydra also would have worked better...
How do you neural immortals when they are behind several archons?
Well he wrapped around with the roaches to the back or they came from the back/side whilst the infestors were at the front with the archons no? But yeah i guess burrow was needed.
yea the infestors were near the spine crawlers when classic's army touched down at dark's position. The thing is, it was basically 6 or so archons barrelling down into the the spine/infestor line, with the 8+ immortals and high templars much farther behind. those infestors couldnt go near the ht/immortal death ball anyway. it was just a weak strategy imo, especially when the only backup is roaches
Only back regularly watching the game after quite a long hiatus lately.
Is there a PvZ style where you can actually just go straight up toe to toe with a Zerg or do you have to rotate around a bunch of tricks and timing attacks?
On April 03 2019 19:52 NExt wrote: Umm what is happening he didn't even stop the natural
You don't need to with this build.
Basically Classic scouted low gas spine and all you do against this is basically cut gas mining and mass cannons but he lost his probe which made it super easy for Dark.
These games are making both Classic and Dark look so good. I feel like whenever one of them wins, they look like they just should never have dropped a map.
On April 03 2019 20:08 M2 wrote: this series is basically will the zerg reacts to the next consecutive cheese fast enough or not
Whilst i agree, i think its 90% correct only. That game 2 build from Classic was pure StarCraft perfection from my eyes. Was build one thing into the next into a scriptive masterclass of how he wanted the series to be
On April 03 2019 18:36 neutralrobot wrote: Classic figured out how to win vs Dark. He made Dark say something cocky. Dark curse into auto-loss. Classic wins now.
Look, at this point, I can't be the only one who's noticed this curse...
Classic the underdog? He always, I repeat, always bops Dark when it matters. It was closer than I thought but in the end the winner was obvious. Dark the choker in big games...
Classic is like a lot of the WoL terrans, so good at abusing all the bullshit! Again and again he is mechanically inferior, but he always seems to find a way. Wp, good luck in the finals, will be a massive struggle if its Maru though!
Easy for Maru. Why are Code S even played? Rogue goes out in ro8, Dark goes in ro4, Terran collectively complain about TvP being broken and then Maru sweeps everyone in the matchup once he gets time to prepare(I'd love to be proven wrong here).
I'm even more disappointed than usual, Classic avoided the lategame in(at least) the last eleven games against Zerg in Code S and Dark still can't build up a more effective defense in g7?
On April 03 2019 20:23 Majick wrote: wow 10k watching GSL live? at this time? is it normal?
Used to be way more or is that what you mean?
I mean it's quite a lot. I thought GSL doesn't have such high numbers live. Especially when whole Europe is at work/school now.
It used to be way more and than stabelized at 15k for a while. After that it decreased a bit more on average. This 13k (Twitch plus YT) is pretty normal for a semis I'd say.
On April 03 2019 20:23 Majick wrote: wow 10k watching GSL live? at this time? is it normal?
Used to be way more or is that what you mean?
I mean it's quite a lot. I thought GSL doesn't have such high numbers live. Especially when whole Europe is at work/school now.
It used to be way more and than stabelized at 15k for a while. After that it decreased a bit more on average. This 13k (Twitch plus YT) is pretty normal for a semis I'd say.
IIRC it was 14k for ro16, could be 20k for groups of death. RO4 used to be around 18k tops? Not sure, I member mostly the 14k.
On April 03 2019 20:25 kyllinghest wrote: Classic is like a lot of the WoL terrans, so good at abusing all the bullshit! Again and again he is mechanically inferior, but he always seems to find a way. Wp, good luck in the finals, will be a massive struggle if its Maru though!
???
classic is not mechanically inferior
his mechanics are insane. his decision making is inferior which is why he is worse at late game
the reason he cant play late game PvZ is because lategame PvZ is all about decision making and being able to navigate and keep up with the zerg army compositions, because if you have the wrong composition against late game zerg you'll just get massacred. we just saw it happen in late game vs rogue and late game vs dark. against rogue he decided to stick with his immortal composition and decided to push, only to get melted by a ball of hydras. same thing against dark - he kept building immortal based compositions, kept trading poorly against swarm host ravager, and then just got rolled by brood lords
compare to someone like neeb whose strengths are understanding of the game and decision making and you have yourself a top 2 PvZ player in the world
on the flip side, classic is a monster PvP player because PvP is about mechanics. whereas neeb sometimes gets slaughtered in PvP as his mechanics are inconsistent
On April 03 2019 20:42 deacon.frost wrote: That's why Classic is able to micro 2 warp prisms... he's no Zest for macro either, his mechanics are top notch.
warp prism micro? what is that? i thought protoss was just a move + storm??
On April 03 2019 20:42 deacon.frost wrote: That's why Classic is able to micro 2 warp prisms... he's no Zest for macro either, his mechanics are top notch.
Agree. There's a video, maybe from SSL, where they highlight Classics first person view and his mechanics were nuts. Plus just watch him play. Infuriating maybe, but very very legitimately good.
On April 03 2019 20:42 deacon.frost wrote: That's why Classic is able to micro 2 warp prisms... he's no Zest for macro either, his mechanics are top notch.
warp prism micro? what is that? i thought protoss was just a move + storm??
He used to be a Terran therefore an exception to the rule?
Now, I would have been so surprised to see Dark get to the finals... no Zerg has been in the GSL finals for two years (not to even talk about winning, which was Life four (!) years ago).
On April 03 2019 23:02 Haukinger wrote: Now, I would have been so surprised to see Dark get to the finals... no Zerg has been in the GSL finals for two years (not to even talk about winning, which was Life four (!) years ago).
You can blame foreigner lands where it appears only Zergs/Protosses are allowed. Scarlett, Reynor, Neeb, Serral...
On April 03 2019 23:02 Haukinger wrote: Now, I would have been so surprised to see Dark get to the finals... no Zerg has been in the GSL finals for two years (not to even talk about winning, which was Life four (!) years ago).
You can blame foreigner lands where it appears only Zergs/Protosses are allowed. Scarlett, Reynor, Neeb, Serral...
I would say we should be grateful to foreignerlands where Zerg are capable of winning regional championships.
On April 04 2019 00:30 Kimb3r wrote: Incredible how Dark lost every match because he didn't scout the proxies/pushes in time.. -.-
Game 5 he responded great to the proxies. He won that because of his reactions and decision to make that group of lings.
Yeah that was good, as well as the defense of the cannon rush... but every other game he lost, because he saw the strategy too late.. incredible how reactive he played and how Classic could dismantle him with very well timed and executed pushes - every game was just lost after the first push...
Man I'm worried for Maru. He's gotta beat three top Protosses for this one. I have my doubts he can pull it off, but man at this point I can't help but feel happy for Classic if he wins this one. One more title for the Chintoss before he goes and does his service.