You mean like a slacker like you. This is a welcome move, we desperately need a place to complain about the delays and stereotypize the french for being always late.
On April 22 2018 17:35 Elentos wrote: You should have done it like a normal person and waited for Pande to make an LR thread where you don't have to update anything
I will just add the finalists to the OP in a spoiler and that's it, not too much work. Results are on LP .
On April 22 2018 17:37 opisska wrote: You mean like a slacker like you. This is a welcome move, we desperately need a place to complain about the delays and stereotypize the french for being always late.
First they push the show back by 30 minutes and then there's nothing on stream for another 15 minutes
I'm watching the french casters highlights and I'm getting genuine throwbacks to BW; having no idea what they're saying but getting lost in the energy of their voices.
On April 22 2018 18:05 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Those booths are sick. Not sure if they do much of player isolation but it looks cool :D
Players have white noise on their headsets
I understand this is generally the only reasonable solution for any tournament with live audience, yet I must wonder how does it feel when you are just paying the game, get good, get into tournaments, finally get on stage only to get some super-heavy noise-cancelling headset slapped on your head with a white noise as a cherry on top. I personally would not be very happy playing in such conditions ...
On April 22 2018 18:05 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Those booths are sick. Not sure if they do much of player isolation but it looks cool :D
Players have white noise on their headsets
I understand this is generally the only reasonable solution for any tournament with live audience, yet I must wonder how does it feel when you are just paying the game, get good, get into tournaments, finally get on stage only to get some super-heavy noise-cancelling headset slapped on your head with a white noise as a cherry on top. I personally would not be very happy playing in such conditions ...
You can always forfeit offline games and not have to deal with this terrible inconvenience :D
On April 22 2018 18:05 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Those booths are sick. Not sure if they do much of player isolation but it looks cool :D
Players have white noise on their headsets
I understand this is generally the only reasonable solution for any tournament with live audience, yet I must wonder how does it feel when you are just paying the game, get good, get into tournaments, finally get on stage only to get some super-heavy noise-cancelling headset slapped on your head with a white noise as a cherry on top. I personally would not be very happy playing in such conditions ...
It is the same thing as playing in your local club to then the final of the World Cup in a huge stadium
On April 22 2018 18:05 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Those booths are sick. Not sure if they do much of player isolation but it looks cool :D
Players have white noise on their headsets
I understand this is generally the only reasonable solution for any tournament with live audience, yet I must wonder how does it feel when you are just paying the game, get good, get into tournaments, finally get on stage only to get some super-heavy noise-cancelling headset slapped on your head with a white noise as a cherry on top. I personally would not be very happy playing in such conditions ...
It is the same thing as playing in your local club to then the final of the World Cup in a huge stadium
Well the conditions are pretty similar on the actual field, no? While for example for me the game could be unplayable on stage because I would get a terrible migraine after 30s of asking my neck to support a heavy headset ...
On April 22 2018 18:23 Elentos wrote: Optimus is putting on weight, is there a secret Sumo showmatch between him and SpeCial?
I didn't remember you going this low
Sumo is an honourable sport.
germany ganging up on innocent french
It's in our blood...
The French are never innocent anyway
On April 22 2018 18:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: What would the odds be for this match? Is mexico favored after that SK kill?
Nah it's pretty close and I'd say slightly NL favored because their lineup is stronger overall. They actually have a Toss unlike team Korea and thermy can pull weight (not like he's never beaten Inno right).
On April 22 2018 18:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: What would the odds be for this match? Is mexico favored after that SK kill?
People severly disagreed with me when I said this before, but the SK allkill wasn't as impressive as it looked. SpeCial's play wasn't even that impressive and the way he won didn't seem repeatable.
I do think that SpeCial can beat everyone on NL though, but the win against korea isn't a contributing reason to that.
On April 22 2018 18:53 Elentos wrote: Give it 10 more minutes before we can start hyping up for game 2
Well, to be fair, they do have to change the setup.
We could have employed the never before seen technology of... more than 1 PC per team :O
Lol, useless and weird to have 6 computers etc
And it's a live event so they dont have to rush considering they have videos to show etc.
It's totally useful to have a PC (or hot swap hard drive) per player. Players can have weird setups which can conflict and cause unnecessary delays. For example ZhuGeLiang uses some program to enable Chinese keys and it needs to be uninstalled after use.
On April 22 2018 18:53 Elentos wrote: Give it 10 more minutes before we can start hyping up for game 2
Well, to be fair, they do have to change the setup.
We could have employed the never before seen technology of... more than 1 PC per team :O
Lol, useless and weird to have 6 computers etc
And it's a live event so they dont have to rush considering they have videos to show etc.
Maybe if they had something interesting to show it wouldn't matter much, but seeing how we were supposed to start at 10 and have successfully finished 1 game in 2 hours, maybe it would have helped get on schedule. Even 2 per team is fine so the next player can get ready to play during the game, Proleague style.
On April 22 2018 19:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Peak form SpeCial is gonna woop us :X
uThermal is pretty good too. These two battle for #1 foreign terran.
yeah special looked dominating early on but he clawed his way back in the game
It was the same both games against Inno. Except those times SpeCial's economic lead was too big for him to lose despite being less dominant as the game went on.
On April 22 2018 20:03 Musicus wrote: Special still weak vs Protoss I guess.
You cant insert any terran name according to blizzard's last report
but aren't we suppose to wait for meta to develop, as is tradition?
That's what terrans were saying when PvT was at 43% indeed
That actually got fixed and toss became OP quickly afterwoods. Current TvP has been hilariously one-sided since 4.0 and blizz have only hinted at fixing it.
On April 22 2018 20:34 Noonius wrote: mayo to fries is what pineapple is to pizza. BLASPHEMY
Pinapple on pizza isn't even that bad tbh, it's really nice on cold pizza as well. Most people I know who hate it have never actually tried it
I have tried it and it is horrible. the texture of the pineapple is so different from the rest of the food that it's just wrong. It's hard and chunky compared
Considering the location its strange that such a thing would even happen, as far as i can tell it is widely used for events and should have a decent enough infrastructure. Also most of paris has optical fiber 500mbs +.
On April 22 2018 20:34 Noonius wrote: mayo to fries is what pineapple is to pizza. BLASPHEMY
Pinapple on pizza isn't even that bad tbh, it's really nice on cold pizza as well. Most people I know who hate it have never actually tried it
I have tried it and it is horrible. the texture of the pineapple is so different from the rest of the food that it's just wrong. It's hard and chunky compared
100% agree.
Well, I waited for around 5 minutes for the stream to come back but I have things I have to do :/.
Unfortunate for O'Gaming that the production, in regard to what I have seen of this tournament (not much, just Netherlands vs Mexico today) has been lacking a bit. I'm certain they will bounce back so have patience guys.
On April 22 2018 20:34 Noonius wrote: mayo to fries is what pineapple is to pizza. BLASPHEMY
Pinapple on pizza isn't even that bad tbh, it's really nice on cold pizza as well. Most people I know who hate it have never actually tried it
I have tried it and it is horrible. the texture of the pineapple is so different from the rest of the food that it's just wrong. It's hard and chunky compared
Loads of toppings have different textures to the actual pizza. People are just brainwashed to hate pinapple
On April 22 2018 20:47 Ansibled wrote: Pineapple on Pizza is great.
no
I trust the Italian on this one
Can confirm.
On topic, omg Harstem what a game... maybe best game so far in this 2018, for excitement and everything :D
Serral vs ShoWTimE was a better game.
I'm a massive Serral fan, but I felt like that game dragged slightly too much. Had it been 40 minutes I'd agree. This game was pure epic that taxed the nerves without going on after my ability to be excited.
On April 22 2018 20:47 Ansibled wrote: Pineapple on Pizza is great.
no
I trust the Italian on this one
Can confirm.
On topic, omg Harstem what a game... maybe best game so far in this 2018, for excitement and everything :D
Serral vs ShoWTimE was a better game.
we had iem katowice this year :x
oh yeah, the tournament that had cool games but the final day sucked so everybody forgot
Katowice really did have some amazing games, so much hype around them as well. Real shame day 3 sucked so much (other than that one Maru vs Rogue game).
On April 22 2018 20:47 Ansibled wrote: Pineapple on Pizza is great.
no
I trust the Italian on this one
Can confirm.
On topic, omg Harstem what a game... maybe best game so far in this 2018, for excitement and everything :D
Serral vs ShoWTimE was a better game.
we had iem katowice this year :x
oh yeah, the tournament that had cool games but the final day sucked so everybody forgot
final day sucked? Serral vs Classic was one of my favourite series this year.
Really? But Serral played so bad for his standards, I was hyped for this series but really disappointed afterwards.
Then Classic got me excited for a good final vs Rogue and suddenly he sucked too.
I think the hype just did it for me. Classic jumping on the lurkers in the final game and closing out the game with his reaction afterwards was an amazing moment.
On April 22 2018 21:26 DBooN wrote: Wait, did they even show highlights for themuszero?
he's like that token black guy in star wars. just to keep the riff-raff from coming over the tracks and starting a riot because they felt like they weren't included
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
MMA and soO spoke English, MMA smack talked the Finnish team saying "the Finnish are Finnish-ed!", soO trolling saying "they don't need me". The one dude on the Finnish team (Zhugeliang I think) talked smack back saying "if they were Dark, Stats, and Classic, we wouldn't have a chance."
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
MMA and soO spoke English, MMA smack talked the Finnish team saying "the Finnish are Finnish-ed!", soO trolling saying "they don't need me". The one dude on the Finnish team (Zhugeliang I think) talked smack back saying "if they were Dark, Stats, and Classic, we wouldn't have a chance."
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
MMA and soO spoke English, MMA smack talked the Finnish team saying "the Finnish are Finnish-ed!", soO trolling saying "they don't need me". The one dude on the Finnish team (Zhugeliang I think) talked smack back saying "if they were Dark, Stats, and Classic, we wouldn't have a chance."
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
MMA and soO spoke English, MMA smack talked the Finnish team saying "the Finnish are Finnish-ed!", soO trolling saying "they don't need me". The one dude on the Finnish team (Zhugeliang I think) talked smack back saying "if they were Dark, Stats, and Classic, we wouldn't have a chance."
Also Inno is tired.
when was the last time Inno said he was not tired?
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
Zhuge: Stats, Dark, Classic would be scary, but those 3 are not them.
As much as I love actual competitive matches. A stupid strong korea team would be funny. Just send out Maru to allkill the world like he does every global event
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
Zhuge: Stats, Dark, Classic would be scary, but those 3 are not them.
As much as I love actual competitive matches. A stupid strong korea team would be funny. Just send out Maru to allkill the world like he does every global event
I mean soO and Inno can still absolutely do that. MMA is a weak link, but the others are up there with Dark, Stats, Classic and Maru imo.
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
Zhuge: Stats, Dark, Classic would be scary, but those 3 are not them.
As much as I love actual competitive matches. A stupid strong korea team would be funny. Just send out Maru to allkill the world like he does every global event
I mean soO and Inno can still absolutely do that. MMA is a weak link, but the others are up there with Dark, Stats, Classic and Maru imo.
If they were in peak form sure. But Maru is the best anti-foreigner player I think. When there's enough on the line for him to take it seriously at least.
On April 22 2018 21:33 Pandain wrote: My internet was crapping out during the interview. Any quick summary/anything interesting?
Zhuge: Stats, Dark, Classic would be scary, but those 3 are not them.
As much as I love actual competitive matches. A stupid strong korea team would be funny. Just send out Maru to allkill the world like he does every global event
I mean soO and Inno can still absolutely do that. MMA is a weak link, but the others are up there with Dark, Stats, Classic and Maru imo.
If they were in peak form sure. But Maru is the best anti-foreigner player I think. When there's enough on the line for him to take it seriously at least.
On April 22 2018 21:54 Fango wrote: Was that just a panic move? He didn't realise he was winning?
Maybe he lost his confidence when soO didn't die when he was supposed to and didn't know what to do between trying against and potentially failing again or giving soO time to crawl back into the game.
On April 22 2018 21:54 Fango wrote: Was that just a panic move? He didn't realise he was winning?
Maybe he lost his confidence when soO didn't die when he was supposed to and didn't know what to do between trying against and potentially failing again or giving soO time to crawl back into the game.
Honestly, I think he got nervous. I agree. We haven't seen plays like that in a long time, but that was classic full foreigner from a few years ago
Its still a bit weird that the players on the bench do nothing : i mean your fingers must be a little underwhelmed compared to the ones of the guy who just won.
On April 22 2018 22:54 Boggyb wrote: I feel like soO could actually lose this game. The advantage soO built on the attack on the 4th is gone after 2 poor fights.
On April 22 2018 23:00 Boggyb wrote: Wouldn't ultras or broodlords be helpful here?
Ultras get wrecked by lurker hydra, and broodlords are really bad vs vipers
with blinding cloud Ultras can be really good vs lurkers. But it's not an ideal transition as players usually don't have melee upgrades in ZvZ.
I think soO had at least one melee upgrade and more than enough resources to invest in more, but he probably thought that would jeopardize the contain which made a win inevitable.
On April 22 2018 23:27 Fango wrote: I never understood the need for DJs at esport events. They do it at most of the big ones and people always seem bored
Yeah, inbetween before the finals is not a good timeslot too imo.
But I think the opening ceremony of Iron Squid 2 was really cool, everybody enjoyed it I think.
On April 22 2018 23:27 Fango wrote: I never understood the need for DJs at esport events. They do it at most of the big ones and people always seem bored
Yeah, inbetween before the finals is not a good timeslot too imo.
But I think the opening ceremony of Iron Squid 2 was really cool, everybody enjoyed it I think.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Having a break for the second team is mandatory. We have been doing that for the past 3 years.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Get the DJs to play SC2. Loser has to pack the kit back into the van.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Having a break for the second team is mandatory. We have been doing that for the past 3 years.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Have you ever been to a live esport event ? The noise, the heat, the visuals...It get really tiring for anyone after a while, everyone needs a break.Both the crew and the spectators.
really great show I could watch and listen to this for hours. SC2 isn't really required anymore, those DJs can keep the crowd entertained on their own.
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Have you ever been to a live esport event ? The noise, the heat, the visuals...It get really tiring for anyone after a while, everyone needs a break.Both the crew and the spectators.
Are you saying these guys are making no noise, make the heat go away and arent a visual strain? :D
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Have you ever been to a live esport event ? The noise, the heat, the visuals...It get really tiring for anyone after a while, everyone needs a break both the crew and the spectators.
At katowice I was pretty much in the same spot for 14 hours and would have enjoyed going out for a break. Had too much passion to lose my seat over it though. Even when some boring dj was playing. But what you say is true
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Have you ever been to a live esport event ? The noise, the heat, the visuals...It get really tiring for anyone after a while, everyone needs a break.Both the crew and the spectators.
Are you saying these guys are making no noise, make the heat go away and arent a visual strain? :D
What i'm saying is that people can actually get nice break. The place they are in isn't so much like any others, you can chill in the lobby, walk in a big garden,get in a quiet place... They're not stuck listening to that.
On April 23 2018 00:10 Trizz wrote: did they really need an hour long music session? this entire tournament has been very low tier with very poor planning.
I'd imagine the hour break is being used for other purposes. The music is just to fill the time for the viewers
Currently at the event. Enjoyed it so far but I had to leave the hall and go for a walk. Beyond it not being my type of music, it's just too loud for the size of the venue. :/
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Have you ever been to a live esport event ? The noise, the heat, the visuals...It get really tiring for anyone after a while, everyone needs a break both the crew and the spectators.
At katowice I was pretty much in the same spot for 14 hours and would have enjoyed going out for a break. Had too much passion to lose my seat over it though. Even when some boring dj was playing. But what you say is true
You didn't visit the restroom, eat, or drink or 14 hours? All to keep a seat?
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
No fresh air was needed, it’s crazy hot in there Lost good seats tho
On April 22 2018 23:40 Elentos wrote: No better way to kill a crowd than this.
Its an open space, people can literally get out and have a breath of fresh air in the gardens of la villette then come back. but if they'd rather stay in a dark room listening to music its their choice.
I'm sure they'd rather watch some SC2.
Have you ever been to a live esport event ? The noise, the heat, the visuals...It get really tiring for anyone after a while, everyone needs a break both the crew and the spectators.
At katowice I was pretty much in the same spot for 14 hours and would have enjoyed going out for a break. Had too much passion to lose my seat over it though. Even when some boring dj was playing. But what you say is true
You didn't visit the restroom, eat, or drink or 14 hours? All to keep a seat?
Talk about dedication.
I left shortly to go to the bathroom but had to do it during games as to not lose the seat (most people move around between games). Didn't want to risk going from the best spot in the house to back of the arena lol.
On April 23 2018 00:10 Trizz wrote: did they really need an hour long music session? this entire tournament has been very low tier with very poor planning.
you dont need to watch breaks, and this break was pretty mandatory as already explained.
On April 23 2018 00:52 Trizz wrote: It has been 7 hours since the tournament started and only 10 games have been played, please rethink your schedule for future events, Nationwars.
that's how you get to sell a lot of beer at the venue.
I know MMA isn't in good form. But that move didn't make any sense. He saw that uthermal had four cyclones moving across the map, no way you can hold that with 5 marines
On April 23 2018 01:02 Fango wrote: I know MMA isn't in good form. But that move didn't make any sense. He saw that uthermal had four cyclones moving across the map, no way you can hold that with 5 marines
On April 23 2018 01:01 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: WTF did happen? (Finland vs Korea)
1. Zhuge did pretty well, had a decent lead and didn't attack early enough. 2. Serral and soO were even for quite a while, Serral didn't see the muta switch coming and lost a big roach lead and in the end the game. 3. Themus cannon rushed, was the best he could try. Could have worked, but his micro was too bad. 4. Very similar to their first game, Serral saw the mutas coming but in the end soO massed lurkers and burrowed them for one great tradeoff and after that it was a long game of soO suiciding units while constantly being 40 supply up and 2-4 bases ahead. He won ofc.
That loss was more on MMA's questionable decision making than a great move by uThermal. MMA should have known he had no chance of holding that with what he had at home.
man, so hyped for Netherlands. Though MMA and Innovation are among my favorite players, i somehow feel the need to cheer for Netherlands (also perhaps because they're the underdog).
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
A player on soO's level should know the correct response. There's no excuse.
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
A player on soO's level should know the correct response. There's no excuse.
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
A player on soO's level should know the correct response. There's no excuse.
What's the correct response?
I'm not a player on soO's level, but definitely not what he just did.
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
A player on soO's level should know the correct response. There's no excuse.
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
A player on soO's level should know the correct response. There's no excuse.
What's the correct response?
I'm not a player on soO's level, but definitely not what he just did.
soO just thought the foreigner would let him come back
On April 23 2018 01:23 Fango wrote: soO played like straight trash here. A player on his level should never get ruined by a scouted proxy. That was some MKP shit
Proxy raxes are always difficult to deal with. You make one wrong move and the game can really end. In this case, he shouldn't have sent his drones.
A player on soO's level should know the correct response. There's no excuse.
What's the correct response?
I remember a zerg doing a bbust against a2rax from Cure on abyssal ( with barracks to protect the the bunker ) and he won.
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring INnoVation back to finish if needed. It has to be INno then soO/MMA.
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring him back to finish if needed.
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring him back to finish if needed.
yeah I understand now, how weird
It's weird but makes sense. Otherwise you could have the same player revived twice (playing three times), which would be pretty boring.
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring him back to finish if needed.
yeah I understand now, how weird
Got to be instant revive, otherwise the body gets cold :p
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring him back to finish if needed.
yeah I understand now, how weird
It's weird but makes sense. Otherwise you could have the same player revived twice (playing three times), which would be pretty boring.
They could just say 2 revives but no player can be revived twice.
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring him back to finish if needed.
yeah I understand now, how weird
It's weird but makes sense. Otherwise you could have the same player revived twice (playing three times), which would be pretty boring.
They could just say 2 revives but no player can be revived twice.
Not that this is relevant in any way, but does anyone else feel like Funka's accent is actually less noticeable while he's freestyle casting, as opposed to the matcherino commercial? Not complaining at all, just logically I'd think it'd be the opposite.
On April 23 2018 02:01 mierin wrote: Not that this is relevant in any way, but does anyone else feel like Funka's accent is actually less noticeable while he's freestyle casting, as opposed to the matcherino commercial? Not complaining at all, just logically I'd think it'd be the opposite.
On April 23 2018 01:49 Boggyb wrote: Does the revive system mean that if INnoVation loses, he HAS to be revived or he's done? That's kind of funky.
?
From what they've been saying, it isn't 2 revives. It is an instant revive and an ace revive. Since neither MMA nor soO were instant revived, INnoVation HAS to be instant revived. They can't go with soO then bring him back to finish if needed.
yeah I understand now, how weird
It's weird but makes sense. Otherwise you could have the same player revived twice (playing three times), which would be pretty boring.
They could just say 2 revives but no player can be revived twice.
that's what I thought
But I think they want the last match to be a revive for "hype" purposes, which could possibly not happen if it was just two general revives.
Like I said, it's weird but it makes sense for what they want.
Seems weird to send 3 terrans in a row, think it would have been smarten to send Harstem after the first time Uthermal lost and keep his revive until the end
On April 23 2018 02:16 Hephaistas89 wrote: Seems weird to send 3 terrans in a row, think it would have been smarten to send Harstem after the first time Uthermal lost and keep his revive until the end
You would have to instant revive a player right after they lose, and save the ace revive for Harstem
On April 23 2018 02:16 Hephaistas89 wrote: Seems weird to send 3 terrans in a row, think it would have been smarten to send Harstem after the first time Uthermal lost and keep his revive until the end
You would have to instant revive a player right after they lose, and save the ace revive for Harstem
If Harstem went in after uthermal lost the first time, they could've instant-revived him and saved the ace revive for uthermal.
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
On April 23 2018 02:16 Hephaistas89 wrote: Seems weird to send 3 terrans in a row, think it would have been smarten to send Harstem after the first time Uthermal lost and keep his revive until the end
You would have to instant revive a player right after they lose, and save the ace revive for Harstem
If Harstem went in after uthermal lost the first time, they could've instant-revived him and saved the ace revive for uthermal.
Yes that's what I meant, think that would have made more sense
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
on what map can you cover half the map with 2 sensor-towers? Not sure even Abiogenesis is small enough for that.
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
As an aside, what's your personal experience with TvT ?
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
On April 23 2018 02:23 Penev wrote: we switched from ravens to sensor towers :o
Personally I think Planetaries are the biggest issue. Spending 150/100 to turn your townhalls into giant undestructible splash damage machines is insane.
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
On April 23 2018 02:23 Penev wrote: we switched from ravens to sensor towers :o
Personally I think Planetaries are the biggest issue. Spending 150/100 to turn your townhalls into giant undestructible splash damage machines is insane.
On April 23 2018 02:23 Penev wrote: we switched from ravens to sensor towers :o
Personally I think Planetaries are the biggest issue. Spending 150/100 to turn your townhalls into giant undestructible splash damage machines is insane.
The lack of mule makes planetaries more expensive than they seem right? And lack of an extra scan as well.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
what about Creep/Oracles/Observers?
creep and units require much more attention to develop than sensor towers omfg
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ? Or is your entire TvT experience watching Avilo ?
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
what about Creep/Oracles/Observers?
Except for revelation (which is also maphack for all intents and purposes) and sensor tower, every vision tool can be killed off by things that it gives vision of.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
quite a lot of em actually, in fact even without sensor towers i somehow manage to catch drops sometimes, its incredible
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
On April 23 2018 02:15 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
On April 23 2018 02:15 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
quite a lot of em actually, in fact even without sensor towers i somehow manage to catch drops sometimes, its incredible
On April 23 2018 02:15 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
what about Creep/Oracles/Observers?
creep and units require much more attention to develop than sensor towers omfg
Right-clicking an Observer to a spot surely requires much more attention than building sensor towers
On April 23 2018 02:15 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] what?
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
The only complaints I usually hear about sensor towers is how they shouldn't be visible to the opponent. That people think they're OP is definitely a new one.
On April 23 2018 02:17 Fango wrote: [quote] High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
On April 23 2018 02:32 pvsnp wrote: Inno going full Maru. The multidrop, attack-everywhere and overwhelm style always seems to work well against foreigners.
tvts with a million sensor towers covering half the map is the stupidest thing ever, avilo isn't entirely wrong :>
High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
On April 23 2018 02:17 Fango wrote: [quote] High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
On April 23 2018 02:32 pvsnp wrote: Inno going full Maru. The multidrop, attack-everywhere and overwhelm style always seems to work well against foreigners.
On April 23 2018 02:17 Fango wrote: [quote] High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
On April 23 2018 02:17 Fango wrote: [quote] High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
Sensor towers are bad design like many things in SC2.
On April 23 2018 02:17 Fango wrote: [quote] High level TvT rarely ends up like that
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
Doesn't make it any less stupid. A matchup where positionning is everything, you jut get maphacks over half the map with 2 buildings instead of needing to fight for map control
It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
On April 23 2018 02:20 Fango wrote: [quote] It does when the scenario described is very rare or unrealistic. At low level play all kinds of stupid strategies might happen.
You're right it promotes great plays in pro games
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Just to clarify - I'm not saying diamond players don't know anything or don't have any say. But if you're losing to stupid shit in diamond league it's not worth balancing the game over.
On April 23 2018 02:38 Fango wrote: Just to clarify - I'm not saying diamond players don't know anything or don't have any say. But if you're losing to stupid shit in diamond league it's not worth balancing the game over.
On April 23 2018 02:38 Fango wrote: Just to clarify - I'm not saying diamond players don't know anything or don't have any say. But if you're losing to stupid shit in diamond league it's not worth balancing the game over.
This isn't about balance though :O
Im talking tvt sensor towers so obviously im a diamond and im talking balance apparently :>
Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
On April 23 2018 02:23 Lyyna wrote: [quote] Sure, let's remove sensor towers. What could go wrong in a matchup where it's all about positionning and mobility. I hope you like doom drops.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:38 Fango wrote: Just to clarify - I'm not saying diamond players don't know anything or don't have any say. But if you're losing to stupid shit in diamond league it's not worth balancing the game over.
This isn't about balance though :O
He literally said sensor towers need a balance patch where they're removed.
Yeah cause a building that completly removes any possibilities to outmanoeuver your opponent unless he never looks at his map is sensible, you're right. Not like fighting for map control was an option amiright
Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:38 Penev wrote: How to put this; innovation is just boringly too good?
You rarely get fun games with a large skill gap between the opponents unless the gap is massive then they can do cheesy things and still win.
so the answer is "yes"
I mean, when Maru and Byun play inferior opponents they will frequently mix in sick micro or multitask and other stylistic tricks they wouldn't try on equals. Inno though just plays the same old way against inferior opponents and bulldozes them. The only difference is that his first or second push wins the game instead of his fourth or fifth one.
On April 23 2018 02:28 Lyyna wrote: [quote] Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:28 Lyyna wrote: [quote] Right. We never see any doom drop as soon as a sensor tower hits the field at pro level. Medivacs absolutly can't fly through the radius in about 5sec, amirite ?
have you ever played a TvT , actually ?
He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
On April 23 2018 02:28 Fango wrote: [quote] He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
wow he said balance patch instead of design patch, that changes everything
I mean it kinda does. He never clarified that point just went on to complain about TvT in particular
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
It wouldn't be the biggest deal if people didn't dumb it down to ranks as soon as they disagree :>
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
It all depends on the matchup, yeah? I for one can't imagine complaining about anything (terran) balance wise except for ghosts and to a lesser extent ravens.
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
wow he said balance patch instead of design patch, that changes everything
I mean it kinda does. He never clarified that point just went on to complain about TvT in particular
and tvt wasnt enough of a hint that it wasnt a balance complaint :>
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
If they removed the ability to raise/lower depots, Terran win rates would drop at least 10% against Zerg unless other changes are made.
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
It all depends on the matchup, yeah? I for one can't imagine complaining about anything (terran) balance wise except for ghosts and to a lesser extent ravens.
u gotta complain about chronoboost too, dont fall behind in the game
On April 23 2018 02:28 Fango wrote: [quote] He plays diamond league TvT where people can spam 8 sensor towers and get maphacks apparently. Which is imba
and what league do you play tvt at fango
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
If they removed the ability to raise/lower depots, Terran win rates would drop at least 10% against Zerg unless other changes are made.
yeah that's why this would be a design change and not a balance change. Obviously other changes would've to be done but this game mechanic is just bad design and should be removed asap!!!
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
It all depends on the matchup, yeah? I for one can't imagine complaining about anything (terran) balance wise except for ghosts and to a lesser extent ravens.
u gotta complain about chronoboost too, dont fall behind in the game
Clearly queens are imbalanced. The other races can only gain their macro mechanic energy from buildings!
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
If they removed the ability to raise/lower depots, Terran win rates would drop at least 10% against Zerg unless other changes are made.
yeah that's why this would be a design change and not a balance change. Obviously other changes would've to be done but this game mechanic is just bad design and should be removed asap!!!
I cant tell if youve actually taken 10 liters of LSD or if youre joking
On April 23 2018 02:33 Fango wrote: [quote] I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
wow he said balance patch instead of design patch, that changes everything
I mean it kinda does. He never clarified that point just went on to complain about TvT in particular
and tvt wasnt enough of a hint that it wasnt a balance complaint :>
Complaining about TvT indicates you dislike it from a design pespective but not necessarily exclusively. You said they should be removed in a balance patch, then you corrected yourself, no need to keep dragging it on.
On April 23 2018 02:44 Charoisaur wrote: Why are we complaining about sensor towers when something absurd as supply depot lift-off still exists in the game? You can completely wall off your bases and deny any Zergling/Zealot attacks for no cost since you want to build depot anyways. And once you want to move out you don't even have to kill them because of this stupid game mechanic, this shit can't be removed fast enough.
If they removed the ability to raise/lower depots, Terran win rates would drop at least 10% against Zerg unless other changes are made.
yeah that's why this would be a design change and not a balance change. Obviously other changes would've to be done but this game mechanic is just bad design and should be removed asap!!!
One of those other design changes would probably have to be deleting Zergling speed.
On April 23 2018 02:33 Fango wrote: [quote] I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
wow he said balance patch instead of design patch, that changes everything
I mean it kinda does. He never clarified that point just went on to complain about TvT in particular
and tvt wasnt enough of a hint that it wasnt a balance complaint :>
Complaining about TvT indicates you dislike it from a design pespective but not necessarily exclusively. You said they should be removed in a balance patch, then you corrected yourself, no need to keep dragging it on.
Yeah so cause i use the term balance patch cause thats what we call them most of the time, i'm clearly talking balance THEN backpedalling, i'm just so dishonest
On April 23 2018 02:51 Carminedust wrote: if mariens after 10 seconds of shooting needed to reload which would take 3 seconds would be the best nerf to terran and balance sc2 finally
I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I have severe difficulties in believing that sensor tower spam is a major issue at any level at all.
On April 23 2018 02:51 Carminedust wrote: if mariens after 10 seconds of shooting needed to reload which would take 3 seconds would be the best nerf to terran and balance sc2 finally
A lot of comments on battlenet say marines should to have limited ammo. I still don't understand why
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
On April 23 2018 02:33 Fango wrote: [quote] I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I have severe difficulties in believing that sensor tower spam is a major issue at any level at all.
I never said it was a major issue, i said its stupid and completly unnecessary
On April 23 2018 02:51 Carminedust wrote: if mariens after 10 seconds of shooting needed to reload which would take 3 seconds would be the best nerf to terran and balance sc2 finally
A lot of comments on battlenet say marines should to have limited ammo. I still don't understand why
Terran would need forward supply depots to rearm, finally nerfing doom drops
On April 23 2018 02:33 Fango wrote: [quote] I don't. I'm assuming you're diamond because you think sensor towers should be removed.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I have severe difficulties in believing that sensor tower spam is a major issue at any level at all.
At the pleb level literally anything spam could be an issue. I'm sure cannon rushes and BC rushes are a problem for gold league players. It just doesn't matter in terms of balancing or designing the game.
On April 23 2018 02:37 Fango wrote: [quote] I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
And what does level has to do with this? By your standards you should have no say in anything about the game considering you don't even play so its kinda weird to bring it up dont you think
I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I have severe difficulties in believing that sensor tower spam is a major issue at any level at all.
At the pleb level literally anything spam could be an issue. I'm sure cannon rushes and BC rushes are a problem for gold league players. It just doesn't matter in terms of balancing or designing the game.
Yeah, but I don't think sensor towers stand foremost among the issues at any level.
On April 23 2018 02:37 Fango wrote: [quote] I never said you should have no say about the game? I just said I'm assuming you're diamond.
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
I think im convinced now that you have taken 10 liters of LSD
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
On April 23 2018 02:41 Fango wrote: [quote] Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
Well your incredible knowledge of the game failed you for once, cause i play random at 5k mmr and yes, lyyna is better, what does it change in a conversation about sensor towers? idk
Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
Well it's still an investment into a building instead of more units, production etc. It can't be "prevented" by going around it (or simply ignore it), then the terran got no value out of it and is at a loss.
It's not a particularly great piece of design but it's not that amazing. If it was then we'd see sensor towers as a routine every pro game. Which doesn't really happen outside of TvT.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote: [quote]
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
But the opponent also has to spend attention denying the creep. It's a dance that plays out over the entire game. Sensor tower isn't something that needs constant fighting against. It just buffs the potential reaction time of the terran by a couple seconds.
On April 23 2018 02:41 Fango wrote: [quote] Well done. But the game should be balanced around the top level, not games on your (or my) level. You seem to be refering purely to your own experience here when saying sensor towers should be removed.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote:
On April 23 2018 02:12 Boggyb wrote: Man, a sensor tower on the 3rd looks amazing on Acid Plant.
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
the range on sensor tower is much much greater than a tumor, you can make it next to your CC and create a no-go zone there. cmon
On April 23 2018 02:42 Fango wrote: [quote] [quote]
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
But the opponent also has to spend attention denying the creep. It's a dance that plays out over the entire game. Sensor tower isn't something that needs constant fighting against. It just buffs the potential reaction time of the terran by a couple seconds.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote: [quote]
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
On April 23 2018 02:42 Fango wrote: [quote] [quote]
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
But the opponent also has to spend attention denying the creep. It's a dance that plays out over the entire game. Sensor tower isn't something that needs constant fighting against. It just buffs the potential reaction time of the terran by a couple seconds.
exactly, you cant even fight it :>
But it cost the opponent resources to do. If it doesn't come in handy then they're at a loss for making one.
On April 23 2018 03:01 Charoisaur wrote: Viking buff when?
Buffs won't matter if Terran doesnt make them.
It took Innovation WAY too long to switch into Vikings in the situation he was in. Collosus Stalker with a gigantic pillar to provide cover and he opts to keep making Liberators? I don't understand the thinking there.
On April 23 2018 02:42 Fango wrote: [quote] [quote]
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
On April 23 2018 03:01 Charoisaur wrote: Viking buff when?
Buffs won't matter if Terran doesnt make them.
It took Innovation WAY too long to switch into Vikings in the situation he was in. Collosus Stalker with a gigantic pillar to provide cover and he opts to keep making Liberators? I don't understand the thinking there.
Of course they would. If units get buffed then they become more viable, hence players will make them more.
On April 23 2018 02:47 Fango wrote: [quote] Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
On April 23 2018 03:01 Charoisaur wrote: Viking buff when?
Buffs won't matter if Terran doesnt make them.
It took Innovation WAY too long to switch into Vikings in the situation he was in. Collosus Stalker with a gigantic pillar to provide cover and he opts to keep making Liberators? I don't understand the thinking there.
Of course they would. If units get buffed then they become more viable, hence players will make them more.
On April 23 2018 03:01 Charoisaur wrote: Viking buff when?
Buffs won't matter if Terran doesnt make them.
It took Innovation WAY too long to switch into Vikings in the situation he was in. Collosus Stalker with a gigantic pillar to provide cover and he opts to keep making Liberators? I don't understand the thinking there.
Of course they would. If units get buffed then they become more viable, hence players will make them more.
/sarcasm?
Innovation lost that game because he DIDNT make Vikings. +10 health would literally change nothing about how that game went.
and in what universe is tvt sensor towers a balance issue, please wake up
On April 23 2018 02:14 ArtyK wrote: [quote]
sensor towers would look even more amazing in a balance patch where they are removed
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
Just like the new observer
And ye it requires attention because if not zerg would be a really boring race, and it also gives speed + full information, not the sensor tower.
Terran cant be blind everytime when others race have a lot of things to get map control without sacrifying units.
On April 23 2018 02:42 Fango wrote: [quote] [quote]
alright then, DESIGN patch, sorry for not realising i had to clarify everything like i would to a 5yo
Balance and design are two different things. If you mess them up then it's hardly my fault for taking your actual written word for it.
Either way, my point is that your ladder games aren't the best indicator of balance design. Sensor tower spam isn't an issue in high level play so it really shouldn't be the focus of the balance team. If you were complaining about pro level games then fair enough, but you haven't mentioned any.
I said it was stupid and we could live without it, not just at my level
If they did something to compensate for sensor tower removal then sure. Same with removing anything
I don't see what's wrong with sensor towers though. Creep, Observers, Overseers and Revelation are just as powerful vision tools if not more powerful.
Supply depot lift-off on the other hand... there's no justification for this to exist.
It's vision for no risk, that can't be prevented, just like revelation. Both are stupid and should've been cut long ago ;o.
can't be prevented? you can kill them. and they cost 150/100 so there's definitely a risk to it. Creep spread is completely free
attention is a ressource, spreading creep requires attention, building a sensor tower is set and forget
Just like the new observer
The solution is to make sensor towers fly and react to F2
what if overlords could attack but their speed would be cut in half clearly this would be a buff for terran and innovation would have won that last game with that buff
On April 23 2018 03:01 Charoisaur wrote: Viking buff when?
Buffs won't matter if Terran doesnt make them.
It took Innovation WAY too long to switch into Vikings in the situation he was in. Collosus Stalker with a gigantic pillar to provide cover and he opts to keep making Liberators? I don't understand the thinking there.
Of course they would. If units get buffed then they become more viable, hence players will make them more.
/sarcasm?
Innovation lost that game because he DIDNT make Vikings. +10 health would literally change nothing about how that game went.
You never said 10HP buff specifically. You said that buffs wouldn't do anything because terran's aren't using the unit. Which isn't true. Whenever an sc2 unit gets buffed pro players hop on it.
Besides when they do buff viking HP it will likely be more than 10HP.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
On April 23 2018 03:16 Vindicare605 wrote: Inno is kind of all in right here with Harstem having a third and Inno not even starting a CC.
Harstem even scouted this and still kept third, making probes, forge, gateways. It was just too late to make units vs 2 base timing even with genius disruptor shots.
On April 23 2018 03:19 Carminedust wrote: South korea yet again proves the skill gap hasnt closed at all
I dunno, in years past it would have taken an all star foreigner line up to have a chance vs a Korean team.
soO Inno and MMA aren't exactly Korea's finest at the moment but I was still not expecting the Netherlands of all places to take 3 games off of them.
I think the gap between the top of the Korean scene is as far apart as it has always been, but i think in the lower rungs of Code S the gap is narrower than it used to be. Top foreigners aren't embarassed by mid tier Koreans anymore, which is nice.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
On April 23 2018 03:19 Carminedust wrote: South korea yet again proves the skill gap hasnt closed at all
Maybe they need to buff the Protoss early game for a better balance between Terran and Protoss.Srsly Harstem did a great great.Inno was 2 Base All-in in the last map
On April 23 2018 03:19 Bagration wrote: It was a solid team from Korea - all three players had an all kill and contributed solid numbers of wins
MMA didn't really do anything the others wouldn't have done easier. soO did his job against Finland though
He did really well in the Group Stages - not only all killing UK but he was the only one to get wins against Mexico, and he cleaned up Taiwan after Nice beat Innovation
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
What about the word "pinnacle" do you not understand? Maru's the top and INno isn't even halfway up the peak.
On April 23 2018 03:19 Carminedust wrote: South korea yet again proves the skill gap hasnt closed at all
Maybe they need to buff the Protoss early game for a better balance between Terran and Protoss.Srsly Harstem did a great great.Inno was 2 Base All-in in the last map
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
On April 23 2018 03:19 Bagration wrote: It was a solid team from Korea - all three players had an all kill and contributed solid numbers of wins
MMA didn't really do anything the others wouldn't have done easier. soO did his job against Finland though
He did really well in the Group Stages - not only all killing UK but he was the only one to get wins against Mexico, and he cleaned up Taiwan after Nice beat Innovation
Team Korea probably had each of its members pull their own weight more than winners in previous years, but that's not exactly a high bar.
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
It was sOs because he said something like "INno doesnt like sc2" i think
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
What about the word "pinnacle" do you not understand? Maru's the top and INno isn't even halfway up the peak.
If you think Harstem is as close to the pinnacle of toss as Inno is to terran then I don't know what to say. Harstem is a mid tier foreign protoss. Inno is the second best korean terran.
No mid-tier foreign zerg or terran should take out a top 2 korean terran (or zerg/protoss for that matter).
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
What about the word "pinnacle" do you not understand? Maru's the top and INno isn't even halfway up the peak.
be careful with using the word "pinnacle" around here
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I wonder when the behind the scenes thing will come out. GG to all today!
EDIT: Balance discussions aside, this was a great day to be a foreigner. Seeing uthermal take down MMA and soO, and harstem taking down Inno...FeelsGoodMan.
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
I think it was the german team.
What did the German team initially say?
I don't know, are there no vods of the videos for last year?
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
I think it was the german team.
What did the German team initially say?
I don't know, are there no vods of the videos for last year?
They said that "We had Korean BBQ (they were in a restaurant) and it's time for dessert."
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
Not only is Special much better but he also basically won with his early game aggression where it's totally possible to upset a better player in all matchups. Only if both players reach the mid-late game on relatively even terms the better player usually dominates the game.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
SpeCial is the best foreign terran and a regular practice partner for the elite koreans. Bit different. And even then he didn't beat Inno in the macro department. He won due to massive advantages from early on in the games. Hell I think Inno's macro was better than SpeCial's that series, it just didn't matter in the end.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
Not only is Special much better but he also basically won with his early game aggression where it's totally possible to upset a better player in all matchups. Only if both players reach the mid-late game on relatively even terms the better player usually dominates the game.
Oh yeah didn't INnoVatioN get bopped by DIMAGA while trying regular bio pushes a few months back?
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
SpeCial is the best foreign terran and a regular practice partner for the elite koreans. Bit different. And even then he didn't beat Inno in the macro department. He won due to massive advantages from early on in the games. Hell I think Inno's macro was better than SpeCial's that series, it just didn't matter in the end.
Harstem also won due to significant advantages from early in the game?
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
Not only is Special much better but he also basically won with his early game aggression where it's totally possible to upset a better player in all matchups. Only if both players reach the mid-late game on relatively even terms the better player usually dominates the game.
We saw just how much better SpeCial is a few hours ago, didn't we? Harstem basically won with his early game defense, that's just as valid as winning with early game aggression.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
You mean the game where Kelazhur defended the Ravager allin and won with the counterattack? Surely outplayed in a macro game.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem wasn't outplaying him, only hanging on to his lead. And hasn't SpeCial done exactly that earlier this tournament (feel free and quibble about SpeCial being a bit better than Harstem)?
Not only is Special much better but he also basically won with his early game aggression where it's totally possible to upset a better player in all matchups. Only if both players reach the mid-late game on relatively even terms the better player usually dominates the game.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
What about the word "pinnacle" do you not understand? Maru's the top and INno isn't even halfway up the peak.
If you think Harstem is as close to the pinnacle of toss as Inno is to terran then I don't know what to say. Harstem is a mid tier foreign protoss. Inno is the second best korean terran.
No mid-tier foreign zerg or terran should take out a top 2 korean terran (or zerg/protoss for that matter).
You're making a lot of baseless greatly exxagerated statements.
At the highest level (As in GM or higher), anyone can take 1 game off of anyone. That is exactly why Starcraft tournaments use Bo3-Bo7 formats.
Harstem took one game off of Inno because Inno's aggressive risky opener flopped on its face AND he refused to make Vikings to counter the army that Harstem had and it was still close.
Innovation then took the next game. If this was any normal SC2 tournament these 2 would have to play another game and Inno would be greatly favored to win that one too.
One game in a Bo1 team league format is never going to be enough to show that there is an imbalance in the match up that needs to be patched, especially when Innovation made plenty of mistakes in the game in question.
Your type of argument just makes THE ENTIRETY of the TvP complaints seem like baseless whining because you're making huge claims with bad really bad logic to back it up. You dont even point out anything specific in the match the way that I do, you just are arguing that Harstem can never take a game off of Innovation in a balanced game and that's simply not true.
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
I think it was the german team.
What did the German team initially say?
I don't know, are there no vods of the videos for last year?
They said that "We had Korean BBQ (they were in a restaurant) and it's time for dessert."
I think that "hey Finland...you are finished" eclipsed any trash talk one liner in NW history.
It sucked MMA choked on the Netherlands, but what could he have said, really? "Hey, Netherlands...the only place you could beat us is neverland?"
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
I think it was the german team.
What did the German team initially say?
I don't know, are there no vods of the videos for last year?
They said that "We had Korean BBQ (they were in a restaurant) and it's time for dessert."
I think that "hey Finland...you are finished" eclipsed any trash talk one liner in NW history.
It sucked MMA choked on the Netherlands, but what could he have said, really? "Hey, Netherlands...the only place you could beat us is neverland?"
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
Yeah I mean let's just ignore the fact that Harstem played the best out of any foreigner in NationWars because he doesn't usually play this well.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
On April 23 2018 03:25 Latr02 wrote: Anyone remember whose trash talk did Inno respond to when he said "if you aren't good at the game, you might as well be good at running your mouth"? Also rip stream yikes
I think it was the german team.
What did the German team initially say?
I don't know, are there no vods of the videos for last year?
They said that "We had Korean BBQ (they were in a restaurant) and it's time for dessert."
I think that "hey Finland...you are finished" eclipsed any trash talk one liner in NW history.
It sucked MMA choked on the Netherlands, but what could he have said, really? "Hey, Netherlands...the only place you could beat us is neverland?"
"prepare to get kicked in the nether region"
If you're looking for puns I would go with "Netherlame" or something. Puns aren't my strong suit though. In any case, the results speak for themselves.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
What about the word "pinnacle" do you not understand? Maru's the top and INno isn't even halfway up the peak.
If you think Harstem is as close to the pinnacle of toss as Inno is to terran then I don't know what to say. Harstem is a mid tier foreign protoss. Inno is the second best korean terran.
No mid-tier foreign zerg or terran should take out a top 2 korean terran (or zerg/protoss for that matter).
You're making a lot of baseless greatly exxagerated statements.
At the highest level (As in GM or higher), anyone can take 1 game off of anyone. That is exactly why Starcraft tournaments use Bo3-Bo7 formats.
Harstem took one game off of Inno because Inno's aggressive risky opener flopped on its face AND he refused to make Vikings to counter the army that Harstem had and it was still close.
Innovation then took the next game. If this was any normal SC2 tournament these 2 would have to play another game and Inno would be greatly favored to win that one too.
One game in a Bo1 team league format is never going to be enough to show that there is an imbalance in the match up that needs to be patched, especially when Innovation made plenty of mistakes in the game in question.
Your type of argument just makes THE ENTIRETY of the TvP complaints seem like baseless whining because you're making huge claims with bad really bad logic to back it up. You dont even point out anything specific in the match the way that I do, you just are arguing that Harstem can never take a game off of Innovation in a balanced game and that's simply not true.
The reasons that anyone can take a map of anyone arre due to the natural randomness of sc2 in terms of build orders, scouting, straight luck etc. Generally you don't outmacro a player that's better than you by a large margin.
And I'm not making balance calls based on just this game. One game doesn't mean much if anything. My opinion of TvP has been the same since 4.0, this is just a very small addition.
"you just are arguing that Harstem can never take a game off of Innovation in a balanced game and that's simply not true". No I'm not. I said that he shouldn't really be outmacro'ing Inno and winning later in the game to the extent that he did. You don't see that with lower tier terrans or zergs against elite players.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
On April 23 2018 03:10 ZigguratOfUr wrote: [quote]
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people. And there are worse PvTs than this to whine about if you insist on it.
Harstem didn't play amazingly but he played well enough to conserve his lead and let his double forge + colossus army transition into tempests before vikings were out. Maybe if PvT was perfectly balanced, Inno could've won, but you have to remember that Inno is never at his strongest overseas, nor when playing from behind.
Imo he played better (relative to his form) today than he did last year, when Inno was basically considered the best player in the world but still barely won in TvZ, his best matchup by far.
On April 23 2018 03:12 Fango wrote: [quote] To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
On April 23 2018 03:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote: [quote]
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
I would bet on them dropping a patch between Ro32 and Ro16, judging by this line:
"The upcoming GSL group stages and WCS qualifier results will be valuable for gauging where the current meta is and what sort of further balance changes are necessary."
Between group stages is also a frequent balance-adjustment window in any case, and it would take a supremely imbalanced matchup to prevent the big favorites from making it through the Ro32.
On April 23 2018 03:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote: [quote]
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
Too bad Korea didn't get $o$, classic, and hero voted in to their team. They wouldn't have lost a game.
On April 23 2018 03:18 Fango wrote: [quote] He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
Too bad Korea didn't get $o$, classic, and hero voted in to their team. They wouldn't have lost a game.
The better question would be if sOs would have won a game.
On April 23 2018 03:21 Elentos wrote: [quote] At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
Too bad Korea didn't get $o$, classic, and hero voted in to their team. They wouldn't have lost a game.
The better question would be if sOs would have won a game.
If he can get the money without winning, he doesn't have to try so it's ok.
On April 23 2018 03:21 Elentos wrote: [quote] At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
Too bad Korea didn't get $o$, classic, and hero voted in to their team. They wouldn't have lost a game.
The better question would be if sOs would have won a game.
He accomplished the dreaming of winning Nationwars without winning a game last year. I'm sure this year he could manage to stretch that feat from just the offline portion to the entire tournament. If he had, next year would have been him winning without even having to play a game.
On April 23 2018 03:07 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Terrans need something, Inno shouldnt lose to Harstem.
Quit your whining. INno lost because he opened up with a proxy liberators and aggro at the third that got held off with minimal damage.
To be honest, in a macro game like that. Inno should do a lot better against Harstem, even if his build didn't work. Harstem is not the pinnicle of protoss.
Arguably INno hasn't been the pinnacle of terran either over the past few months.
Regardless if you're behind, you have to make something happen to come back. INno chose to sit back and macro, and Harstem didn't make any big enough mistakes for INno to come back.
He's probably the second best terran in the world. Harstem isn't even an elite protoss in foreignerland
At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't.
What the heck are we even talking about again? Harstem not top foreigner? He's had his up and downs, but he has been a top 5 foreign Protoss basically for years, being in the top 2 or 3 spot plenty of times.
On April 23 2018 03:21 Elentos wrote: [quote] At most he's 2nd best because there's a lack of evidence that he isn't, not because he's clearly better than TY or GuMiho. His form is questionable. Let's not pretend like him getting outplayed by Harstem should never, ever happen.
Inno has done better than TY and gumiho recently I think. And honestly in a macro game with many bases taken, I don't think harstem should be outplaying him that hard. You'd never find a mid tier foreign terran or zerg doing that.
Harstem was the best player on his team this NationWars and that's with uThermal being the 2nd best foreign Terran and able to take maps against Dark and Classic at WESG or beating Inno at Katowice. It doesn't really matter if he's generally mid-tier, Harstem played a strong tournament. And between Gumi, INno and TY, there's so few meaningful results that picking one of them is a pointless endeavour.
But maybe I imagined Kelazhur beating Dark at Blizzcon.
I didn't see the games between uthermal and dark/classic. Was he outmacro'ing them? If he was that's impressive, but still uthermal is one of the best foreigners out there. Harstem isn't. Inno's macro should be too much for him unless he's suddenly playing like a top 3 protoss. Which I find hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe how biased as fuck you are to think it should take a top 3 protoss to ever win from that position.
Not necessarily just to win. But the extent to which he did was a bit much.
Methinks you doth protest too much, and since I am apparently a known Terran Whiner™ that should be saying something. The state of PvT is well known by now. Blizzard has already acknowledged it openly as Protoss-favored. Whining here serves no purpose except annoying people.
Tbh I'm more than willing to annoy anyone who thinks PvT isn't disgustingly one-sided. But I'm probably going too far because this shit is triggering every time I see it. So I'll apologise for that
As for blizz, I don't even know what they're doing. I wouldn't suprise me if there isn't a patch for a while
Too bad Korea didn't get $o$, classic, and hero voted in to their team. They wouldn't have lost a game.
The better question would be if sOs would have won a game.
This might be an example of me failing to understand internet speak, but i was being 100% sarcastic
another tournament thread aftermath where people debate whether players with fewer accomplishments are "allowed" to beat players with more accomplishments/"better macro", amazing
i feel like people overlook the fact that at elite levels having "good macro" is the exact same thing as multitasking, lol. people just throw around the word "macro" like it's some kind of overall player quality score
On April 23 2018 03:27 Fango wrote: If you think Harstem is as close to the pinnacle of toss as Inno is to terran then I don't know what to say. Harstem is a mid tier foreign protoss. Inno is the second best korean terran.
No mid-tier foreign zerg or terran should take out a top 2 korean terran (or zerg/protoss for that matter).
I agree. Innovation is arguably the best SC2 player ever and last year, he was the best Terran player against Protoss.
Suddenly, this year, he is horrible against Protoss. Something changed this year and I don't think it's Innovation. At least Blizzard recognizes TvsP favors Protoss now.
BTW, in the last game, Innovation rushed Harstem before Harstem got to 3 bases. As Demuslim has said, once Protoss gets to 3 bases in a straight up game, Terran is at disadvantage. In the last game, Innovation did to Harstem what Maru did to Stats - don't play Protoss in a straight up game and rush/cheese Protoss before they get to 3 bases.
On April 23 2018 03:27 Fango wrote: If you think Harstem is as close to the pinnacle of toss as Inno is to terran then I don't know what to say. Harstem is a mid tier foreign protoss. Inno is the second best korean terran.
No mid-tier foreign zerg or terran should take out a top 2 korean terran (or zerg/protoss for that matter).
I agree. Innovation is arguably the best SC2 player ever and last year, he was the best Terran player against Protoss.
Suddenly, this year, he is horrible against Protoss. Something changed this year and I don't think it's Innovation. At least Blizzard recognizes TvsP favors Protoss now.
BTW, in the last game, Innovation rushed Harstem before Harstem got to 3 bases. As Demuslim has said, once Protoss gets to 3 bases in a straight up game, Terran is at disadvantage. In the last game, Innovation did to Harstem what Maru did to Stats - don't play Protoss in a straight up game and rush/cheese Protoss before they get to 3 bases.
Terran needs something for TvP lategame.... BC and Thor buffs? Raven spells? They can't just allow the TvP meta to get stuck at "kill the protoss before third!"
On April 23 2018 11:03 juicyjames wrote: Any recommended matches?
Harstem vs Cham, Harstem hold like a boss a mass roach attack (even if zergs will be salty about warp prism micro xD)
soO vs Zhugeliang gave us the hope that Zhuge will beat soO but then he missmicroed into ravager bills, so idk
INnovation's first 4 games against Netherlands were really "clean" from his part, but maybe not enough back and fourth.
His loss against harstem was good to see as he really tried his to hold and come back but Harstem didnt' wen full foreigner and controlled the pace of the game.
On April 23 2018 06:14 Thax wrote: What the heck are we even talking about again? Harstem not top foreigner? He's had his up and downs, but he has been a top 5 foreign Protoss basically for years, being in the top 2 or 3 spot plenty of times.
To me a top foreigner is someone who regularly makes deep runs in WCS tournaments so basically Serral, Elazer, Nerchio, Snute, Neeb, Showtime and Special. Scarlett too for her performance at Pyeongchang and GSL. Between them and the rest of the foreigners there's a significant gap.
It becomes clear that there is a problem in the matchup because INno couldn’t comeback against Harstem in a macro game and most terrans try to do 2 bases pushes / allin even against inferior competition.
As for games recommended, I’d say all INno games except against Optimus, Harstem vs Cham, Harstem vs special, soO vs Serral (g2 and g4)
On April 23 2018 16:57 Poopi wrote: It becomes clear that there is a problem in the matchup because INno couldn’t comeback against Harstem in a macro game and most terrans try to do 2 bases pushes / allin even against inferior competition.
As for games recommended, I’d say all INno games except against Optimus, Harstem vs Cham, Harstem vs special, soO vs Serral (g2 and g4)
I forgot to say SoO vs Srral, they were really good to watch
On April 23 2018 06:14 Thax wrote: What the heck are we even talking about again? Harstem not top foreigner? He's had his up and downs, but he has been a top 5 foreign Protoss basically for years, being in the top 2 or 3 spot plenty of times.
To me a top foreigner is someone who regularly makes deep runs in WCS tournaments so basically Serral, Elazer, Nerchio, Snute, Neeb, Showtime and Special. Scarlett too for her performance at Pyeongchang and GSL. Between them and the rest of the foreigners there's a significant gap.
And yet Harstem has won 2 premier tournaments (with wins against Snute, Scarlett so top for) while Scarlett and Showtime only won one and Special never won. Harstem isn't always at his best, and don't participate in all tournament, but i think he often reach a top foreigner level, which is the case these past weeks.
Looking at this thread you would think Harstem will never get credit from half the fans even when he does play at a high level (which he's capable of). It would all go down as being carried by his race.
Harstem took down Inno really reminds me of Special taking down Stats and TY at blizzcon. A very good but never the best foreigner (like Harstem, very inconsistent but can peak at a high level) took down top koreans. I don't remember back then people taking it as an opportunity to throw out their agendas. Give me a break.
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