EPT[IEM XII] Katowice World Championship - Championship Sunda…
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Be9he
8 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On March 04 2018 17:24 Be9he wrote: Don't understand the whining about raven, zerg late or patch protoss. In semis we have the very best koreans of all 3 races (in this moment of SC2) and the best foreigner right now. What a fantastic tournament, a lot of amazing games. Enjoy the best esport in the world. Because they know ravens is the only decent terran lategame unit, and if they whine hard enough, we can go back to lategame air battles being essentially a deadend for terrans. It is particularily interesting once you realise that, even more than fungal / storm / PB, the counter to the missile is just decent pre-splitting, something T have been doing (and been told to do, as a solution to everything), for the entire game's lifespan. Ravens add interesting interactions in the form of pre-fight positionning, and force Z/P (and other terrans, because it is much stronger in TvT than it is vZ/vP) to put some thoughts in their lategame composition and timings, instead of just waiting to mass more air. | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
Maruuuuuuuuuuu | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On March 04 2018 17:27 Lyyna wrote: Because they know ravens is the only decent terran lategame unit, and if they whine hard enough, we can go back to lategame air battles being essentially a deadend for terrans. It is particularily interesting once you realise that, even more than fungal / storm / PB, the counter to the missile is just decent pre-splitting, something T have been doing (and been told to do, as a solution to everything), for the entire game's lifespan. Ravens add interesting interactions in the form of pre-fight positionning, and force Z/P (and other terrans, because it is much stronger in TvT than it is vZ/vP) to put some thoughts in their lategame composition and timings, instead of just waiting to mass more air. This so much ! I couldn't have said it better. The Zergs have to actually play tactically now, and they were used to just A-moving with their superior OP late game armies so much that it seems they will not be able to handle it. But if they are really good players they have to adjust in time, they have all the counters they can wish for. And its not like every Terran player handles the "Raven" play as well as Maru, so the whine is really not justified at all. Lets be glad the game is finally starting to look balanced, after such a long time the game is finally starting to be in a good place, both race wise but even more so entertainment wise  TvP is still a bit meh, but other matchups are all amazing ! Long live SC | ||
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rotta
5599 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
Classic 4-2 | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3426 Posts
In terms of game quality this has been a phenomenal tournament so far. Hopefully it will remain so! | ||
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Azhrak
Finland1198 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On March 04 2018 17:27 Lyyna wrote: Because they know ravens is the only decent terran lategame unit, and if they whine hard enough, we can go back to lategame air battles being essentially a deadend for terrans. It is particularily interesting once you realise that, even more than fungal / storm / PB, the counter to the missile is just decent pre-splitting, something T have been doing (and been told to do, as a solution to everything), for the entire game's lifespan. Ravens add interesting interactions in the form of pre-fight positionning, and force Z/P (and other terrans, because it is much stronger in TvT than it is vZ/vP) to put some thoughts in their lategame composition and timings, instead of just waiting to mass more air. tbf I don't think spammable mass AoE spells are good design. But yeah Terran just isn't competitive in lategame without it atm, I'd prefer if they nerf the raven and give the viking a slight HP buff though. | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On March 04 2018 18:08 Charoisaur wrote: tbf I don't think spammable mass AoE spells are good design. But yeah Terran just isn't competitive in lategame without it atm, I'd prefer if they nerf the raven and give the viking a slight HP buff though. They would need to nerf the raven, buff the vikings hp (and probably mobility, because even tankier, they are just too damn hard to move out of stuff), nerf PB, but even then, we end in a situation where terran just AOE to compete with even a nerfed PB / fungal / storm, which is auto death in a game relying on mass air battles in the lategame. An idea could be to slow the missile a bit (since apparently pre-split isn't even an idea for zergs), or give it a Wol-style limited range. | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On March 04 2018 18:17 Lyyna wrote: They would need to nerf the raven, buff the vikings hp (and probably mobility, because even tankier, they are just too damn hard to move out of stuff), nerf PB, but even then, we end in a situation where terran just AOE to compete with even a nerfed PB / fungal / storm, which is auto death in a game relying on mass air battles in the lategame. BCs are no competition for corruptors / tempests / VRs, and without AOE there is no fighting chance An idea could be to slow the missile a bit (since apparently pre-split isn't even an idea for zergs), or give it a Wol-style limited range. damnit the edit / quote. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Keeemy
Finland7855 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24593 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 04 2018 18:42 Zaros wrote: I'm feeling Rogue double world champion Would be pretty sick. He's already played a great tournament, putting down the haters. Poll: Who has best chance vs. Classic? Rogue (8) Serral (3) Maru (1) 12 total votes Your vote: Who has best chance vs. Classic? | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On March 04 2018 17:24 Be9he wrote: Don't understand the whining about raven, zerg late or patch protoss. In semis we have the very best koreans of all 3 races (in this moment of SC2) and the best foreigner right now. What a fantastic tournament, a lot of amazing games. Enjoy the best esport in the world. It's not just balance but also because of how the ability works, let's not go full paranoid conspiracy theory immediately like some others in this thread. Storm and parasitic bomb at least have you microing out of it/ singling out the infected, this missile just instantly paints your army orange. Also it lasts for 21 seconds. Balance wise it's hard to see this thing not becoming a problem tbh. It needs to get the fungal treatment or there's going to be a lot of beautiful paint jobs in the near future. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On March 04 2018 18:55 Penev wrote: It's not just balance but also because of how the ability works, let's not go full paranoid conspiracy theory immediately like some others in this thread. Storm and parasitic bomb at least have you microing out of it/ singling out the infected, this missile just instantly paints your army orange. Also it lasts for 21 seconds. Balance wise it's hard to see this thing not becoming a problem tbh. It needs to get the fungal treatment or there's going to be a lot of beautiful paint jobs in the near future. If you presplit bit like vs banelings its not gonna do much but thats pretty hard to do with air units maybe someone will figure it out. | ||
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