Intel® Extreme Masters has a long-standing relationship with StarCraft® II and we thrilled to once again welcome world's top players to the city of Katowice to compete for the coveted trophy, and a lion's share of the US$400,000 prize pool.
Below, you'll find everything you need to know about qualifying and playing at the tournament.
Online Qualifiers
here will be 4 global qualifiers, all consisting of 2 stages. 11 players who will top the second stages of the qualifiers will be invited to the group stage (Ro24):
3 from KR qualifier #1
2 from KR qualifier #2
3 from EU Qualifier
3 from NA qualifier
*All qualifiers are open to all participants, with no regional restrictions regarding citizenship or residence, but they will be held in the Battle.net regions they are announced. KR = Asia, EU = Europe, NA = Americas.
How will the Qualifiers work:
Stage 1 - Open for all
Single elimination bracket - Bo3
Deciding matches (Ro16) - Bo5 (top 8 qualify to the closed qualifier)
Stage 2 - 16 players (8 qualified from stage 1, 8 from regional WCS results (Blizzcon, then WCS points): Asia+Oceania / Europe+Africa / Americas
Double elimination bracket - Bo3
Deciding matches - Bo5 (top 3 qualify to the main event group stages (Ro24))
As stated in the official announcement "All qualifiers are open to all participants, with no regional restrictions.", but, the qualifiers will be played on the announced Battle.net regions.
On January 02 2018 11:37 KappaKingPrime wrote: Is there going to be stream?
ToD is going to Poland to cast with Wardi. That will probably just be for day 2 since he was saying he didn't understand flying him out to cast for just one day.
In 4 hours we'll continue with the second stage of the first server qualifier for Katowice! Don't miss a second of the action, it begins at 18:00 KST (10:00 am CET)
On January 03 2018 18:48 Durnuu wrote: SC2 still exists in 2018 ?
Probably no. What happened in the last game? It was balanced, Special was a bit leading, then the stream froze for half a minute and it was end of the game, where sOs won ...
On January 03 2018 18:48 Durnuu wrote: SC2 still exists in 2018 ?
Probably no. What happened in the last game? It was balanced, Special was a bit leading, then the stream froze for half a minute and it was end of the game, where sOs won ...
On January 04 2018 00:13 Waxangel wrote: Just play like INnoVation -_~
Or TY. Or ByuN.
Protoss went 5-4 against Terran with a map score of 13-11. If you exclude SpeCial for being an outlier who got in due to being over seeded in the qualifier, it was 4-4 and a map score of 11-11.
On January 04 2018 00:35 Mun_Su wrote: Bogus man ! Will the second most whining terran (TY is the new whining terran GOAT) prevent a terran buff by playing this good ?
He isn't playing good, he's just abusing the imbalance. As we all know he can only win when terran is absurdly overpowered.
We already know the first 4 players that will be in Katowice. And in less than a week the second qualifier will qualify 2 more to the Season XII World Championship! Do not forget to join it!
On January 16 2018 23:03 adMachine wrote: And the maru forfeit didnt help :-(
Him being sick made him lose to TIME (!) in bo5 so it's probably better we didn't see him play Creator in this state. Hopefully in the bracket stage we see more diversity !
The seeding for this qualifier just actually made no sense. People with 0 Korean WCS points in 2017 getting higher seeds than people who played in 2 GSLs
I mean it's one thing to give an advantage to the players who were at Blizzcon, but some of the stuff is just beyond completely arbitrary.
On January 16 2018 20:39 Argonauta wrote: I tihnk with 4.0 Terran lategame is better than zergs...
Sure, one of the best foreigners losing a late game against a retired player = late game is better for terrans.
Are top foreigners supposed to be better than retired koreans?
It depends on the players but can Leenock be considered retired since he even played (and qualify iirc) in important qualifiers such as GSL? He probably practiced as much as Special so it doesn't say much about TvZ.
On January 16 2018 20:39 Argonauta wrote: I tihnk with 4.0 Terran lategame is better than zergs...
That would be an interesting change considering Terran hasn't been favoured in the late game against Zerg since Mvp got ghosts nerfed. Not convinced it's true though--ghosts are scary but Zerg still has tools. Snute vs ByuN at OSC was an instructive game with regards to lategame ZvT with Snute suiciding a number of expensive armies and going down tens of thousands in resources lost yet still eventually breaking ByuN with Zerg's remax capabilities.
On January 16 2018 22:34 ByuuN wrote: Lol. 1 Terran 2 Zergs 5 Protoss Blizzard please patch your game before GSL group F.
I'm glad to see you valiantly cherry-picking data especially when 2 zergs and a terran got out of qualifier 1 (I'm not saying the game is balanced, it isn't, but why do terran whiners like you have to cry imbalance at every occasion? It's not like 3x bo5 PvTs are statistically indicative of anything at all balance-wise, but you're acting like these numbers were written in blood by David Kim Himself.)
On January 16 2018 20:39 Argonauta wrote: I tihnk with 4.0 Terran lategame is better than zergs...
That would be an interesting change considering Terran hasn't been favoured in the late game against Zerg since Mvp got ghosts nerfed. Not convinced it's true though--ghosts are scary but Zerg still has tools. Snute vs ByuN at OSC was an instructive game with regards to lategame ZvT with Snute suiciding a number of expensive armies and going down tens of thousands in resources lost yet still eventually breaking ByuN with Zerg's remax capabilities.
I think in late HotS terran had a slight advantage in lategame too Also 4.0 doesn't change anything about lategame, does it? The only tvz change is the hydra upgrade nerf.
On January 16 2018 20:39 Argonauta wrote: I tihnk with 4.0 Terran lategame is better than zergs...
That would be an interesting change considering Terran hasn't been favoured in the late game against Zerg since Mvp got ghosts nerfed. Not convinced it's true though--ghosts are scary but Zerg still has tools. Snute vs ByuN at OSC was an instructive game with regards to lategame ZvT with Snute suiciding a number of expensive armies and going down tens of thousands in resources lost yet still eventually breaking ByuN with Zerg's remax capabilities.
I think in late HotS terran had a slight advantage in lategame too Also 4.0 doesn't change anything about lategame, does it? The only tvz change is the hydra upgrade nerf.
For all of 4.0? The big lategame changes are the raven and infestor changes, though I don't see how that would advantage terran.
On January 18 2018 19:04 Heartland wrote: Kaelaris? It's been a while since I heard from him last
He's been around for IEM stuff every now and then, but yeah, he doesn't cast too much SC2 anymore. He was always one of my favourite casters along with Apollo.
I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
Going to go with the daring opinion that KR Protoss are quite a lot better than foreign Protoss.
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
Going to go with the daring opinion that KR Protoss are quite a lot better than foreign Protoss.
Very daring indeed. Next you will tell me that might also be true for Terran!
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
zerg earlygame is just easier below top level so it makes sense
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
Its just that is demuslims opinion and not every pro players especially not koreans for sure
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
zerg earlygame is just easier below top level so it makes sense
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
zerg earlygame is just easier below top level so it makes sense
Shots fired
Destroyed all of foreignland with one comment, Scarlett is savage.
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
zerg earlygame is just easier below top level so it makes sense
Shots fired
Destroyed all of foreignland with one comment, Scarlett is savage.
On January 18 2018 21:02 Noonius wrote: is it just me or has pvp gone down to toilet as a mirror? I for one, miss the ping-pong wars
I like it way better now. Feels much cleaner to play. Games are decided by decisionmaking and execution mostly, not by random disruptor hits blowing up your whole army.
On January 18 2018 21:02 Noonius wrote: is it just me or has pvp gone down to toilet as a mirror? I for one, miss the ping-pong wars
I like it way better now. Feels much cleaner to play. Games are decided by decisionmaking and execution mostly, not by random disruptor hits blowing up your whole army.
I get what you mean, but there was a certain excitement that's not easily replicable in sc2 with pingpong wars.
On January 18 2018 21:02 Noonius wrote: is it just me or has pvp gone down to toilet as a mirror? I for one, miss the ping-pong wars
I like it way better now. Feels much cleaner to play. Games are decided by decisionmaking and execution mostly, not by random disruptor hits blowing up your whole army.
I get what you mean, but there was a certain excitement that's not easily replicable in sc2 with pingpong wars.
Everytime I watch Ping pong wars I fall asleep and I hated it with every fiber of my being
On January 18 2018 21:02 Noonius wrote: is it just me or has pvp gone down to toilet as a mirror? I for one, miss the ping-pong wars
I like it way better now. Feels much cleaner to play. Games are decided by decisionmaking and execution mostly, not by random disruptor hits blowing up your whole army.
I get what you mean, but there was a certain excitement that's not easily replicable in sc2 with pingpong wars.
Everytime I watch Ping pong wars I fall asleep and I hated it with every fiber of my being
On January 18 2018 19:53 Musicus wrote: I really don't understand this. DeMusliM told everyone on his stream yesterday how super favoured Zerg is vs Protoss. He said all the pros agree with him.
So how did soO lose before a final? Everything I knew was a lie .
Going to go with the daring opinion that KR Protoss are quite a lot better than EU Protoss.
On January 18 2018 22:48 Musicus wrote: Although Solar always said he has the best ZvP in the world. At the very least he is extremely confident in that matchup. Not sure how happy sOs is.
Yeah Solar's ZvP is really good, across late HotS and LotV he often had the best ZvP rating of any Zerg. He beat sOs in a tournament before Blizzcon the year that sOs won it vs Life in the semi-finals I think (EDIT: this was a dreamhack in all likelihood).
So it could either be a close, tense 3-2 series or one player will have a clever idea and it will be a craptastic 3-0 sweep as ZvP is prone to :D
On January 18 2018 23:12 phyren wrote: I know I'm being the wrong type of nerdhere, but....Kaelaris, dribble and drivel are 2 different words
Yeah I think he was going for gibberish and not baby drool :D.
Edit: Btw he is wrong. The Harry Potter writing is great. Fight me Kaelaris!
Does anyone else think Harry Potter has been one of the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises? Each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.
Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody?just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.
>a-at least the books were good though r-right "No!" The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."
I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.
On January 18 2018 23:12 phyren wrote: I know I'm being the wrong type of nerdhere, but....Kaelaris, dribble and drivel are 2 different words
Yeah I think he was going for gibberish and not baby drool :D.
Edit: Btw he is wrong. The Harry Potter writing is great. Fight me Kaelaris!
Does anyone else think Harry Potter has been one of the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises? Each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.
Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody?just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.
>a-at least the books were good though r-right "No!" The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."
I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.
On January 19 2018 01:28 Sinistro wrote: Now it is time for the EU Qualifier! In 35 minutes the first stage of the Eu qualifier takes place, don't forget to joins us:
On January 19 2018 01:28 Sinistro wrote: Now it is time for the EU Qualifier! In 35 minutes the first stage of the Eu qualifier takes place, don't forget to joins us:
On January 19 2018 01:28 Sinistro wrote: Now it is time for the EU Qualifier! In 35 minutes the first stage of the Eu qualifier takes place, don't forget to joins us:
On January 19 2018 04:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm kinda surprised not to see more NA players participating in this, since NA qualifier is usually KR qualifier #3.
The only NA player is Neeb, no? He shouldn't have any trouble beating some Code S scrubs on NA.
On January 19 2018 04:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm kinda surprised not to see more NA players participating in this, since NA qualifier is usually KR qualifier #3.
The only NA player is Neeb, no? He shouldn't have any trouble beating some Code S scrubs on NA.
Still surprised he didn't try, since he easily could have. I think his chances facing Europeans while dealing with 100 ping are better than his chances against Koreans who are dealing with 100 ping. And he could just play both.
Also how do the server rules work for this? Can Neeb insist on having the games played on NA Central against a Korean rather than NA West?
On January 19 2018 04:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm kinda surprised not to see more NA players participating in this, since NA qualifier is usually KR qualifier #3.
The only NA player is Neeb, no? He shouldn't have any trouble beating some Code S scrubs on NA.
Still surprised he didn't try, since he easily could have. I think his chances facing Europeans while dealing with 100 ping are better than his chances against Koreans who are dealing with 100 ping. And he could just play both.
Also how do the server rules work for this? Can Neeb insist on having the games played on NA Central against a Korean rather than NA West?
Players can agree on a different gameserver, without agreement the US Central gameserver will be used
On January 19 2018 04:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm kinda surprised not to see more NA players participating in this, since NA qualifier is usually KR qualifier #3.
The only NA player is Neeb, no? He shouldn't have any trouble beating some Code S scrubs on NA.
Still surprised he didn't try, since he easily could have. I think his chances facing Europeans while dealing with 100 ping are better than his chances against Koreans who are dealing with 100 ping. And he could just play both.
Also how do the server rules work for this? Can Neeb insist on having the games played on NA Central against a Korean rather than NA West?
On January 19 2018 04:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm kinda surprised not to see more NA players participating in this, since NA qualifier is usually KR qualifier #3.
The only NA player is Neeb, no? He shouldn't have any trouble beating some Code S scrubs on NA.
Still surprised he didn't try, since he easily could have. I think his chances facing Europeans while dealing with 100 ping are better than his chances against Koreans who are dealing with 100 ping. And he could just play both.
Also how do the server rules work for this? Can Neeb insist on having the games played on NA Central against a Korean rather than NA West?
Players can agree on a different gameserver, without agreement the US Central gameserver will be used
Them's da rulez
The difference between Korea-US West and Korea-US Central is ~40 ping I think, so that's pretty big.
Well 40 isnt that bad yet and Neeb probably wouldn't do that anyway. Him being #2 seed because Major was top 4 at Blizzcon is gonna make the brackets in stage 2 funny though.
Hello folks, just passing by to update you guys with something important related to the Americas Server Qualifier, to remove any possible doubt:
The mappool used on Americas Server Stage 1 and Stage 2 will be the current ladder map pool, the one that includes Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Odyssey and Battle on the Boardwalk.
On January 19 2018 06:07 Sinistro wrote: Hello folks, just passing by to update you guys with something important related to the Americas Server Qualifier, to remove any possible doubt:
The mappool used on Americas Server Stage 1 and Stage 2 will be the current ladder map pool, the one that includes Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Odyssey and Battle on the Boardwalk.
Sinistro killing TL threads one resonable action at a time
On January 20 2018 03:20 Fango wrote: Elazer, Serral, and Nerchio have this easily. I don't see any way they don't make it
With Elazer I can agree. But Serral can have Maru in the quarters, ZvT is Serral's worst match-up, so Maru can beat him even though it will be played on EU.
Nerchio is going to have a hard time, not only he has Harstem in the first round, which is doable for him but way not granted. He also have Showtime and Ealzer later who are his nemesis for the past year and even more. If Nerchio falls to the losers bracket he will still have to play Elazer or Showtime (as they are most likely to meet in the qualifiers match of the upper side of the bracket and the loser will fall to the losers bracket will wait in there), as well as Maru or Serral who can beat him as well. I guess Nerchio's hope is that after he loses in the quarters Maru will lose to Serral as well, but will win of Showtime vs Elazer, so that Nerchio will face Maru in Nerchio's best match up, but in a Nerchio vs Maru on EU I think its 50 50 (though if Maru loses to Serral earlier, then may be Nerchio's chances will be a bit higher).
I think it will be Elazer, and the 2 of the following 3 (Showtime, Serral, Maru). If I have to bet then its Elazer, Serral and Maru.
On January 20 2018 03:20 Fango wrote: Elazer, Serral, and Nerchio have this easily. I don't see any way they don't make it
With Elazer I can agree. But Serral can have Maru in the quarters, ZvT is Serral's worst match-up, so Maru can beat him even though it will be played on EU.
Nerchio is going to have a hard time, not only he has Harstem in the first round, which is doable for him but way not granted. He also have Showtime and Ealzer later who are his nemesis for the past year and even more. If Nerchio falls to the losers bracket he will still have to play Elazer or Showtime (as they are most likely to meet in the qualifiers match of the upper side of the bracket and the loser will fall to the losers bracket will wait in there), as well as Maru or Serral who can beat him as well. I guess Nerchio's hope is that after he loses in the quarters Maru will lose to Serral as well, but will win of Showtime vs Elazer, so that Nerchio will face Maru in Nerchio's best match up, but in a Nerchio vs Maru on EU I think its 50 50 (though if Maru loses to Serral earlier, then may be Nerchio's chances will be a bit higher).
I think it will be Elazer, and the 2 of the following 3 (Showtime, Serral, Maru). If I have to bet then its Elazer, Serral and Maru.
Maru forfeited KR qualifier #2 due to illness, so I doubt that he's in top form currently.
On January 20 2018 03:20 Fango wrote: Elazer, Serral, and Nerchio have this easily. I don't see any way they don't make it
With Elazer I can agree. But Serral can have Maru in the quarters, ZvT is Serral's worst match-up, so Maru can beat him even though it will be played on EU.
In a normal match Maru is the clear favourate. But the ping difference from KR to EU is ridiculous. No chance playing bio against lingbane (and Maru isn't a big proponent of mech right now)
On January 23 2018 03:20 DieuCure wrote: People made fun of Cure because he lost 3-1 to Bly with 450 ping, but nothing about Snute losing to Bly without ping
Because Cure is Korean, lost 3 games and wasn't playing a coinflip matchup... also people like Snute too much. :^)
Now that I've heard that Rail found a good proxy to Korea, it makes me wonder why more players haven't (though ofc Rail is better placed than anyone else). If Jin Air had a good proxy and played under 150 ping rather than 300 it would help their chances to qualify.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
Still a mass Ultra + X composition loses to tier 2 toss unless the X is broodlords.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
An army of T3 for zerg isn't viable, none of them even shoot air outside Parabomb, so you have to use T2.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
Still a mass Ultra + X composition loses to tier 2 toss unless the X is broodlords.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
An army of T3 for zerg isn't viable, none of them even shoot air outside Parabomb, so you have to use T2.
Right... and a Tier 3 army for Protoss would be an autoloss versus cloaked units because they lack detection... so there is no reason to ever build T3 units right? That is the train of logic you're currently on.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
Then give zerg a T3 anti air unit, thanks.
All of the zergs anti air is T2 and can't do shit vs Carrier/Storm/Archon.
So you have to kill them with your T2 army before that or hit a Brood Lord timing.
The way Nerchio outmaneuvered Showtime all game long, I understand his frustration.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
Still a mass Ultra + X composition loses to tier 2 toss unless the X is broodlords.
You're cherry picking unit compositions.
The rule stands.
Yes I am. You said a composition of tier 3 units should always beat a composition of tier 2 units so I provided an example where that isn't true.
On January 23 2018 04:19 BronzeKnee wrote: I think Tier 3 units should beat Tier 2 units.
Ultras should beat Immortals?
There are always exceptions to the rule.
But what I meant was that a composition of Tier 3 units should defeat a composition of Tier 2 units in general, hence the plural. That much should be obvious.
Still a mass Ultra + X composition loses to tier 2 toss unless the X is broodlords.
You're cherry picking unit compositions.
The rule stands.
Yes I am. You said a composition of tier 3 units should always beat a composition of tier 2 units so I provided an example where that isn't true.
Read what I said. I never said always, except that there were always exceptions to the rule. I can win any argument too if I misrepresent what my opponent says.
On January 23 2018 04:34 pvsnp wrote: Higher tier > lower tier is semi-reductive argument since there isn't even a universally accepted definition of what exactly constitutes a Tier
Let's redefine it then if tier confuses you... higher tech level units should defeat lower tech units in general.Otherwise they'd have a no role in the game.
Because they have a role in the game, it is obvious they do. Now of course in a 1vs1, a Zealot beats a High Templar or an Immortal beats an Ultralisk or Thor, but that situation isn't realistic for a competitive 1vs1 game of SC2. Nor is a situation of just building an army of tier 3 units...
I understand Zergs might be frustrated, but Protoss is winning 42% of their games at a high level versus Zerg right now... so... http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
On January 23 2018 04:42 pvsnp wrote: uthermal needs ghosts and he doesn't have any
he needs liberators. Ghosts suck unless they are protected by a huge liberator/tank siege line.
Nah, you just need gosu ghost micro. Inno and Byun have been going ghost before libs and it works quite well against Ultras. Bio/Tank/Ghost works in the lategame, you add Liberators and Vikings as the game goes super late and Zerg adds BL and Infestors.
Also a ghostball takes awhile to build up, while libs can be reactored out so starting ghosts before libs helps that way.
On January 23 2018 04:42 pvsnp wrote: uthermal needs ghosts and he doesn't have any
he needs liberators. Ghosts suck unless they are protected by a huge liberator/tank siege line.
Nah, you just need gosu ghost micro. Inno and Byun have been going ghost right after tank and it works quite well against Ultras. Bio/Tank/Ghost works in the lategame, you add Liberators and Vikings as the game goes super late and Zerg adds BL and Infestors.
Also ghostball takes awhile to build up, while libs can be reactored out so starting ghosts before libs helps that way.
I have never seen Inno getting early ghosts early and I watch his stream a lot and of course all his tournament matches.
On January 23 2018 04:42 pvsnp wrote: uthermal needs ghosts and he doesn't have any
he needs liberators. Ghosts suck unless they are protected by a huge liberator/tank siege line.
Nah, you just need gosu ghost micro. Inno and Byun have been going ghost right after tank and it works quite well against Ultras. Bio/Tank/Ghost works in the lategame, you add Liberators and Vikings as the game goes super late and Zerg adds BL and Infestors.
Also ghostball takes awhile to build up, while libs can be reactored out so starting ghosts before libs helps that way.
I have never seen Inno getting early ghosts early and I watch his stream a lot and of course all his tournament matches.
There was one day about a week ago where I watched him do it on stream like five times in a row. Also, if you watch Inno vs Leenock game 2 in GSL, he starts ghost production near the end (though he never needs it).
"Early" is a bit of a misnomer since it's not like the 3-ghost push or anything, just earlier than Terrans got them pre-4.0
I know it shouldn't surprise me at this point, but boy do most EU players play the game incredibly similarly to each other (much more than any other region).
On January 23 2018 07:09 bartus88 wrote: Why is Maru in the EU qualifier? I haven't kept up with SC2 that much lately, did I miss something?
Anyone can play in the qualifiers, the only difference is the server that it's played on. Most koreans didn't bother with the EU qualifier becuase the ping from KR>EU is too much. Expect to see the NA qualifier be full of koreans
On January 23 2018 09:14 Fango wrote: Maru vs Solar, Patience vs soO, herO vs Zest, Bunny vs Stats, and TY vs Leenock are all qualifying matches for stage 2
Elazer's handling of a proxy 2-rax seems light year's ahead of RagnaroK's even weighing for the fact that Bunny's presumably better than avilo.
On January 23 2018 10:19 TheSkunk wrote: Am I missing something or is Neeb not participating in the qualifier? Does Katowice conflict with another tournament he's in?
On January 23 2018 10:19 TheSkunk wrote: Am I missing something or is Neeb not participating in the qualifier? Does Katowice conflict with another tournament he's in?
Checked Liquipedia. Apparently he's already in the second stage of the qualifier? Might have been an invite or something.
On January 23 2018 10:19 TheSkunk wrote: Am I missing something or is Neeb not participating in the qualifier? Does Katowice conflict with another tournament he's in?
Checked Liquipedia. Apparently he's already in the second stage of the qualifier? Might have been an invite or something.
They've seeded the top 8 players from the region ('region' in this case being everyone not KR or EU) using the rather bizarre criterion of Blizzcon performance first, followed by WCS points (which incidentally means that Neeb is seed 2 behind MajOr).
edit: Also Bunny vs Cure is the second proxy 2-rax reaper mirror I've seen on Odyssey recently.
Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Solar supposed to be in really good form right now, a shame he got ZvZ'd out of GSL in the Ro32
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
In ZvZ maybe. But Solar's ZvT has been some of the best in korea for a long time. Even last year he was held back purely by his ZvP
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
In ZvZ maybe. But Solar's ZvT has been some of the best in korea for a long time. Even last year he was held back purely by his ZvP
Ah okay I haven't seen his other match-ups lately.
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
In ZvZ maybe. But Solar's ZvT has been some of the best in korea for a long time. Even last year he was held back purely by his ZvP
Solar's ZvT is really good but definitely not the best in Korea. That title goes to either Dark or Rogue.
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
In ZvZ maybe. But Solar's ZvT has been some of the best in korea for a long time. Even last year he was held back purely by his ZvP
Solar's ZvT is really good but definitely not the best in Korea. That title goes to either Dark or Rogue.
Rogue ZvT is at 45% post-patch and it looked quite weird against aLive.
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
In ZvZ maybe. But Solar's ZvT has been some of the best in korea for a long time. Even last year he was held back purely by his ZvP
Solar's ZvT is really good but definitely not the best in Korea. That title goes to either Dark or Rogue.
He's up there. Last GSL season he played only ZvT until the playoffs and didn't lose a map. I would say Dark may be better but Rogue hasn't proved anything. His run last year was carried by ZvP/Z
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
Really? Solar's form has been shaky too dropping out of the GSL in quite unimpressive fashion.
In ZvZ maybe. But Solar's ZvT has been some of the best in korea for a long time. Even last year he was held back purely by his ZvP
Solar's ZvT is really good but definitely not the best in Korea. That title goes to either Dark or Rogue.
Rogue ZvT is at 45% post-patch and it looked quite weird against aLive.
I was talking about 2017 since everyone's results post-4.0 are pretty limited. Rogue in particular seems to have slumped pretty hard after Blizzcon (understandable).
On January 23 2018 11:21 Fango wrote: Maru has no chance beating Solar in their current forms. Shame becuase Solar would probably play in the open bracket if he doesn't qualify whereas Maru won't
So......either Maru was underrated or Solar was overrated.
All's well that ends well I suppose.
EDIT: Oh wait stupid me this is a Bo5 not a Bo3. Hopefully Maru can close it out.
That push from Maru was insane. I didn't think attacking into that position would every work. Not sure what happened with Solar's counterattacks though they didn't seem to do much
On January 23 2018 11:51 Fango wrote: That push from Maru was insane. I didn't think attacking into that position would every work. Not sure what happened with Solar's counterattacks though they didn't seem to do much
He lost like 50 supply when he charged into the siege line. Dunno where his blinding clouds were but they didn't seem very effective.
On January 23 2018 11:51 Fango wrote: That push from Maru was insane. I didn't think attacking into that position would every work. Not sure what happened with Solar's counterattacks though they didn't seem to do much
He lost like 50 supply when he charged into the siege line. Dunno where his blinding clouds were but they didn't seem very effective.
That position on BotB is pretty broken. Zerg has to be incredibly patient to win out.
Wow KR players trashed this qualifier. I tried to sign up for fun but I couldn't, would have been fun playing against KR pro :/. I couldn't find my America account URL to prove to ESL I have an account, I clicked on my American portrait / nickname on blizzard sc2 site and then there was an error. Does anyone know why ?
Even though Elazer didn't do that good on EU, he has a shoot. His side of the bracket can do good for him. ZvZ and ZvP are match-ups where he can beat good KR players as well. On his side of the bracket he can meet TY in the qualifiers match, but its more likely to be Zest. And while I don't think Elazer has a shoot vs TY, he can beat Zest.
I doubt if Scarlett has more chance then Major, but given the current state of TvP then perhaps Scarlett has a bit more chance, as Special is most likely to meet Stats if he gets to the qualifying match. But if Scarlett does him a favor then it can be Scarlett or Maru, and then Maru has the better chance of the 3 of these, but the second one is probably Special, even though we don't know his current state at the moment (he didn't compete for a while, apart for the WCS qualification and GSL qualifiers that he didn't pass).
On January 24 2018 00:01 sneakyfox wrote: Sorry if I missed it elsewhere, but does anyone understand how Gumiho is an invited player for stage 2 of the NA qualifier?
Kelazhur dropped out and Gumiho replaced him, not sure why
On January 24 2018 00:01 sneakyfox wrote: Sorry if I missed it elsewhere, but does anyone understand how Gumiho is an invited player for stage 2 of the NA qualifier?
Kelazhur dropped out and Gumiho replaced him, not sure why
I would surmise GuMiho was the player with the highest 2017 WCS finish who attempted to qualify but didn't.
On January 24 2018 01:10 TheSkunk wrote: Jesse from Ting confirmed Neeb didn't play due to already traveling to Leipzig, he will still be playing in the Katowice open bracket.
Presuming that's the same case for Kelazhur, but I don't know for sure
Nice, knowing that he will play in the open qualifier is enough!
On January 24 2018 01:16 ShoCkeyy wrote: Are the brackets correct in the OP? I'm clicking the link for the EU one, and it shows me different results? Or am I missing something?
The OP links to the stage 1 brackets but the players listed are the ones who won in stage 2.
On January 24 2018 01:10 TheSkunk wrote: Jesse from Ting confirmed Neeb didn't play due to already traveling to Leipzig, he will still be playing in the Katowice open bracket.
Presuming that's the same case for Kelazhur, but I don't know for sure
Upper bracket has Gumiho, TY, soO, Maru, and Dear compared to Zest and Stats in the lower bracket. Also foreigners like Major and Scarlett compared to lower bracket foreigners like Probe and Cham.
This is the kind of insanely unequal bracket that makes rigging look really good by comparison.
i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
You got the wrong end of bracket luck this time.
Good luck man.
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
You got the wrong end of bracket luck this time.
Good luck man.
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
True, but wouldn't GuMiho have gone in just as uninformed? That makes it kind of fair at least
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
You got the wrong end of bracket luck this time.
Good luck man.
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
True, but wouldn't GuMiho have gone in just as uninformed? That makes it kind of fair at least
no because gumiho is a replacement also this mentallity of it makes it fair needs to stop. its not about making it fair. is about what is right and wrong
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
You got the wrong end of bracket luck this time.
Good luck man.
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
True, but wouldn't GuMiho have gone in just as uninformed? That makes it kind of fair at least
no because gumiho is a replacement also this mentallity of it makes it fair needs to stop. its not about making it fair. is about what is right and wrong
What are you expecting apart from an earlier heads up? If people drop out and they have to reseed the bracket, they have to reseed the bracket.
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
You got the wrong end of bracket luck this time.
Good luck man.
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
True, but wouldn't GuMiho have gone in just as uninformed? That makes it kind of fair at least
no because gumiho is a replacement also this mentallity of it makes it fair needs to stop. its not about making it fair. is about what is right and wrong
What are you expecting apart from an earlier heads up? If people drop out and they have to reseed the bracket, they have to reseed the bracket.
what about seed it right? that would be a start besides alteast a little message saying hey we had to do bracket again here is ur new oponent
On January 24 2018 09:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Cham 2-0 Zest
didn't expect that one
Yeah, especially considering how superior Neeb looked at Cheesadelphia against Cham (the first game was the only close game of that series). Cham's roach/hydra playstyle is a bit unusual, so maybe Zest go caught off guard.
On January 24 2018 09:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Cham 2-0 Zest
didn't expect that one
Yeah, especially considering how superior Neeb looked at Cheesadelphia against Cham (the first game was the only close game of that series). Cham's roach/hydra playstyle is a bit unusual, so maybe Zest go caught off guard.
Some salty Zerg insulted me in twitch chat by telling me to stay in Masters. I was like ok, thanks I'm proud of that?
Then again he also insisted that soO was the best Zerg in the world and that TY was a scrub. Also that Dark was washed-up and worse than soO at ZvT. So probably best not to pay him much attention.
On January 24 2018 10:19 Fango wrote: Lol I just started watching Maru vs Dear because I thought Cham vs Stats was over. How the hell did Cham lose that?!
Stats feedbacked and stormed all of Cham's overseers then Cham tried to retreat and lost most of his army
On January 24 2018 08:57 Major wrote: i really despise how theres always a problem. i was supposed to play losira into soo. so i mostly practiced vs zerg, than i wake up seeing that now i have to play gumiho instead? and all seeding is wrong anyway its so diserspectfull atleast i coulda got a message saying hey you gotta play gumiho instead because some poeple drop out. but no they dont tell me shit instead i gotta find out 30mins before play without much practice of match up.
now into seeding Seed is supposed to be inviited played 1-8 seed and qualified players 9-16 with blizzcon > wcs taking priority thats why im seed 1
Why the fuck is ty vs soo being played and me vs gumiho? losira still lower seed by this standards.
i dont undestearnd how can they always have problems with stuf like this. its every single time is getting really annoying man.
if neeb and kelazhur drop out and got replaced by gumiho and probe. why i play gumiho instead of probe in what world is gumiho a lower seed than probe? lol
You got the wrong end of bracket luck this time.
Good luck man.
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.Besides, why would he expect to play ZZerg if the open qualifier was only played yesterday?
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.
Really? 12 hours is about as much warning as anyone can expect for a replacement.
I am somewhat less sympathetic towards Major than before.
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.
Really? 12 hours is about as much warning as anyone can expect for a replacement.
I am somewhat less sympathetic towards Major than before.
Email never said bracket changed it just linked it again
Also they seeded new invites (gumiho probe) as bottom seed in whole tournament, changing soo vs ty (1 and 2 seed) into 8 and 1 seed so they play eachother first round etc
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.
Really? 12 hours is about as much warning as anyone can expect for a replacement.
I am somewhat less sympathetic towards Major than before.
Email never said bracket changed it just linked it again
Also they seeded new invites (gumiho probe) as bottom seed in whole tournament, changing soo vs ty (1 and 2 seed) into 8 and 1 seed so they play eachother first round etc
I see. Seems like there's some communications issues between tournament organizers and players. ESL jumping on the bandwagon with Dreamhack and Blizzard now.
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.Besides, why would he expect to play ZZerg if the open qualifier was only played yesterday?
dont assume things? i got no email or skype message or anything
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.
Really? 12 hours is about as much warning as anyone can expect for a replacement.
I am somewhat less sympathetic towards Major than before.
Email never said bracket changed it just linked it again
Also they seeded new invites (gumiho probe) as bottom seed in whole tournament, changing soo vs ty (1 and 2 seed) into 8 and 1 seed so they play eachother first round etc
I see. Seems like there's some communications issues between tournament organizers and players. ESL jumping on the bandwagon with Dreamhack and Blizzard now.
ESL started that bandwagon with the Pyeongchang qualifiers lol
Did anybody ever think the bracket play is kind of like League of Legends? I mean, you have top, bottom, and mid, with some snipers (see Gumiho v. TY) and random junk like bracket position changes happening in realtime.
Seeding in GuMiho was kinda weird too. I'd have expected MaSa (as the next non-European non-Korean by 2017 WCS points), since Probe was seeded in for that reason.
dont assume things? i got no email or skype message or anything
I know mails were sent to players (would you be an exception?) , Scarlett's post appears to confirm that and brackets were really up early on official site. Liquipedia site had wrong brackets.
dont assume things? i got no email or skype message or anything
I know mails were sent to players (would you be an exception?) , Scarlett's post appears to confirm that and brackets were really up early on official site. Liquipedia site had wrong brackets.
Not sure what you're trying to prove here... Put yourself in his shoes.
As much as I like Stats and Elazer, both of them will probably play in the open bracket if they don't qualify. It's a shame to see spots go to them. Feels like a waste
On January 24 2018 10:26 Jonas wrote: Special forfeited! Anyone know what the deal is here? :/
On January 24 2018 09:16 Major wrote: Show nested quote +
nah its not cool. i practiced 2-3 days only vs zerg and some protoss literally no game vs terran cause i tho was not gonna be needed. instead i wake up 30mins before qualfier to see i gotta play someone different. so im not playing this qualifier im so sad i changed my flight from leipzeig just so i could play. whats the point of preparation if all can be trowned out the window without atleast a message of prior notice.
its insanely disrespectfull
Players were informed directly by esl and brackets were up at least 12 hours before start. Its Specials fault if he only checked liquipedia instead of offical site and email.
Really? 12 hours is about as much warning as anyone can expect for a replacement.
I am somewhat less sympathetic towards Major than before.
Email never said bracket changed it just linked it again
Also they seeded new invites (gumiho probe) as bottom seed in whole tournament, changing soo vs ty (1 and 2 seed) into 8 and 1 seed so they play eachother first round etc
I see. Seems like there's some communications issues between tournament organizers and players. ESL jumping on the bandwagon with Dreamhack and Blizzard now.
ESL started that bandwagon with the Pyeongchang qualifiers lol
But Apollo implemented that fix so Pyeongchang is all good.
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
Those loses to Serral and TRUE were on EU server. When he played Solar yesterday he looked in really good shape
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
Those loses to Serral and TRUE were on EU server. When he played Solar yesterday he looked in really good shape
A good enough player shouldn't have to use the "on another server excuse." Maru is good enough that he should be able to beat Serral and TRUE even at the early morning + lag.
But yes, I do agree that he actually looked quite good against Solar.
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
Those loses to Serral and TRUE were on EU server. When he played Solar yesterday he looked in really good shape
A good enough player shouldn't have to use the "on another server excuse." Maru is good enough that he should be able to beat Serral and TRUE even at the early morning + lag.
But yes, I do agree that he actually looked quite good against Solar.
I don't think you realise how much ping there is from KR>EU. Even Zest said on stream there's no point trying to play EU qualifier because you can't win. And I'd imagine TvZ is much worse
edit: even if you look at big mismatches high ping can make the difference. Innovation lost 0-2 to snute then 0-2 to ptitdrogo on the last EU qualifier
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
Those loses to Serral and TRUE were on EU server. When he played Solar yesterday he looked in really good shape
A good enough player shouldn't have to use the "on another server excuse." Maru is good enough that he should be able to beat Serral and TRUE even at the early morning + lag.
But yes, I do agree that he actually looked quite good against Solar.
EU-KR (without a good proxy) is awful enough (especially in TvZ) that I'd consider Serral significantly favoured against Maru.
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
Those loses to Serral and TRUE were on EU server. When he played Solar yesterday he looked in really good shape
A good enough player shouldn't have to use the "on another server excuse." Maru is good enough that he should be able to beat Serral and TRUE even at the early morning + lag.
But yes, I do agree that he actually looked quite good against Solar.
I don't think you realise how much ping there is from KR>EU. Even Zest said on stream there's no point trying to play EU qualifier because you can't win. And I'd imagine TvZ is much worse
edit: even if you look at big mismatches high ping can make the difference. Innovation lost 0-2 to snute then 0-2 to ptitdrogo on the last EU qualifier
I mean...to be fair, Zest hasn't exactly been doing amazing lately. But yes, I will say that I don't know how bad it truly is with regards to lag.
This series is so frustrating from Maru. He can clearly beat Gumiho in a normal game but keeps going for coinflips. Imagine how those game's would have gone if Maru wasn't behind from the start...smh
On January 24 2018 12:55 Fango wrote: If maru loses here he has to beat Scarlett, then Dear. Not sure how I favour his chances there
he 2-0'd Dear already though
Rematch curse + he's probably fatigued
Also, he won 2-1 against iA....and normally I'd expect him to beat iA 2-0. Also, Maru hasn't really been doing all that well. He lost 0-2 to Serral and then 0-2 to TRUE. Though to be fair, it was like early morning during the European qualifiers, and it's like afternoonish in Korea.
Those loses to Serral and TRUE were on EU server. When he played Solar yesterday he looked in really good shape
A good enough player shouldn't have to use the "on another server excuse." Maru is good enough that he should be able to beat Serral and TRUE even at the early morning + lag.
But yes, I do agree that he actually looked quite good against Solar.
I don't think you realise how much ping there is from KR>EU. Even Zest said on stream there's no point trying to play EU qualifier because you can't win. And I'd imagine TvZ is much worse
edit: even if you look at big mismatches high ping can make the difference. Innovation lost 0-2 to snute then 0-2 to ptitdrogo on the last EU qualifier
I mean...to be fair, Zest hasn't exactly been doing amazing lately. But yes, I will say that I don't know how bad it truly is with regards to lag.
If playing from EU>KR was doable, then more koreans would attempt it. Only JinAir players tried here because their coach signs them up for everything
Damn, Maru should be awared the series for his courageous and c r e a t i v e usage of the raven. Almost feels like he got bribes from the balance team.
On January 24 2018 15:27 yht9657 wrote: It's pretty funny while both Maru and Dear have won two premier championships, twitch chat sounds like Maru is a god and Dear is some no-name scrub.
That's because Dear won when his race was favoured not the other way around. Also Maru clearly deserved to win here
On January 24 2018 15:20 Fango wrote: Dear did not deserve to qualify here at all :/
I hate him as much as everyone else for taking Maru's spot, and I didn't see many games, but I feel like beating Zest-TY-Stats-Maru is a respectable run
On January 24 2018 15:27 yht9657 wrote: It's pretty funny while both Maru and Dear have won two premier championships, twitch chat sounds like Maru is a god and Dear is some no-name scrub.
That's because Dear won when his race was favoured not the other way around. Also Maru clearly deserved to win here
Even if terran was overwhelmingly favoured in the match-up people would cheer for Maru over Dear.
Maru is way more popular than Dear, I think that's a well-established fact by this point. Not a surprise that people are upset he lost and Dear won. The fact that Protoss is favored in PvT just adds fuel to that fire.
Maru is one of the most popular players in the scene, isn't he? Who has a bigger fanbase? Byun, I guess. Maybe Zest? Anyone else?
Dear on the other hand, has kind of lurked about the edges of greatness ever since his one magnificent peak, and has the (small) fanbase to match.
On January 24 2018 15:20 Fango wrote: Dear did not deserve to qualify here at all :/
I hate him as much as everyone else for taking Maru's spot, and I didn't see many games, but I feel like beating Zest-TY-Stats-Maru is a respectable run
It's more that Maru went 4-3 against him, but Dear is the one to go to Katowice. Plus Maru had to play 12 games with no break at the end when Dear had an hour of downtime. And terran is a week away from being buffed as well.
On January 24 2018 15:27 yht9657 wrote: It's pretty funny while both Maru and Dear have won two premier championships, twitch chat sounds like Maru is a god and Dear is some no-name scrub.
That's because Dear won when his race was favoured not the other way around. Also Maru clearly deserved to win here
Even if terran was overwhelmingly favoured in the match-up people would cheer for Maru over Dear.
I'm talking historically. People support Maru because he rose to fame by winning when his race was underpowered. Dear's peak was still in a period of protoss dominance, so he never built the same fanbase
On January 24 2018 15:20 Fango wrote: Dear did not deserve to qualify here at all :/
I hate him as much as everyone else for taking Maru's spot, and I didn't see many games, but I feel like beating Zest-TY-Stats-Maru is a respectable run
It's more that Maru went 4-3 against him, but Dear is the one to go to Katowice. Plus Maru had to play 12 games with no break at the end when Dear had an hour of downtime. And terran is a week away from being buffed as well.
How do you not deserve to win, when you actually won? If we took away the names of the players, making them just two barcode players, would the terran deserve to win, even though he lost?
On January 24 2018 15:50 Zephyp wrote: How do you not deserve to win, when you actually won? If we took away the names of the players, making them just two barcode players, would the terran deserve to win, even though he lost?
Like I said above, the terran was the better player here. He went 4-3 against the protoss. And this is on a patch that blizzard have already deemed imbalanced in protoss favour. Plus the terran had to play 12 games in a row without a break, protoss had an hour between the last series
On January 24 2018 15:50 Zephyp wrote: How do you not deserve to win, when you actually won? If we took away the names of the players, making them just two barcode players, would the terran deserve to win, even though he lost?
Like I said above, the terran was the better player here. He went 4-3 against the protoss. And this is on a patch that blizzard have already deemed imbalanced in protoss favour. Plus the terran had to play 12 games in a row without a break, protoss had an hour between the last series
In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
In the past couple of weeks, Protoss really only had a 52/53% winrate over Terran. It's been the last couple of days that the winrate has spiked to 59%, though it's only been 5 days. I do expect the winrate to even out somewhat over the next week or so.
What the fuck happened? I sent to bed after Maru 2-1Dear and Elazer 1-1 Stats and the results are this ? Is Stats shit now or Elazer good? Altho it confirms that Elazer>LosirA as I Saïd in some GSL thread.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being stronger gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
If you beat someone in a bo3 beforehand, you deserve a 1 game lead. Otherwise we get situations where you can go 3-2 against someone but lose. That's wrong if you ask me.
I don't see how you can look at such a close series and say that serious balance changes wouldn't effect the result. The stalker change is much bigger than you think. Right now their utility is just too high. Hopefully after the patch terran won't be forced into 2 base allin every game
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
I disagree. TvP balance is quite rubbish currently, and while Dear and Maru both showed pretty big weaknesses (namely poor macroing for Dear, and predictability from Maru stubbornly going for that 2-base all-in), post-patch I think Maru will be the strong favourite in any encounter between them. Claiming that Maru (or anyone one else who loses) "deserves to win" because of circumstance is just being butthurt though.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
If you beat someone in a bo3 beforehand, you deserve a 1 game lead. Otherwise we get situations where you can go 3-2 against someone but lose. That's wrong if you ask me.
I don't see how you can look at such a close series and say that serious balance changes wouldn't effect the result. The stalker change is much bigger than you think. Right now their utility is just too high. Hopefully after the patch terran won't be forced into 2 base allin every game
Having a one game lead is dumb. If both players are playing each other again it means that they're both in the loser's bracket due to having lost to someone. Who they lost to initially is irrelevant--they're in the loser's bracket and should be on equal footing.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
I disagree. TvP balance is quite rubbish currently, and while Dear and Maru both showed pretty big weaknesses (namely poor macroing for Dear, and predictability from Maru stubbornly going for that 2-base all-in), post-patch I think Maru will be the strong favourite in any encounter between them. Claiming that Maru (or anyone one else who loses) "deserves to win" because of circumstance is just being butthurt though.
I admit I'm being salty that my favourate players didn't make it, but I do think going 4-3 whilst having so many factors against you is deserving of a win.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
I disagree. TvP balance is quite rubbish currently, and while Dear and Maru both showed pretty big weaknesses (namely poor macroing for Dear, and predictability from Maru stubbornly going for that 2-base all-in), post-patch I think Maru will be the strong favourite in any encounter between them. Claiming that Maru (or anyone one else who loses) "deserves to win" because of circumstance is just being butthurt though.
Predictability? Of course it's predictable but what else is he supposed to do in the current state? However, stalker nerf has also a buff to it, so while they are gonna need 4 shots against scv / marines, they'll shoot faster.
On January 24 2018 17:56 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Having a one game lead is dumb. If both players are playing each other again it means that they're both in the loser's bracket due to having lost to someone. Who they lost to initially is irrelevant--they're in the loser's bracket and should be on equal footing.
Who they lost to should be relevent because it can be players from a vastly different skill range. Example, you beat someone 2-0 then lose to a god-tier player in the winners match, the player you beat initially then beats a low level player in the losers match. In the final match they win 2-1. Your performance in this case would be objectively superior, yet you'd lose to a player you went 3-2 against.
On January 24 2018 18:03 Poopi wrote: However, stalker nerf has also a buff to it, so while they are gonna need 4 shots against scv / marines, they'll shoot faster.
It's not a buff in most situations. Stalkers aren't a DPS unit, they're a "shoot and run" unit. Having them do less damage but shoot faster makes them worse in their role. The only exception is if they're target-firing down things like broodlords or battlecrusiers maybe.
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
I disagree. TvP balance is quite rubbish currently, and while Dear and Maru both showed pretty big weaknesses (namely poor macroing for Dear, and predictability from Maru stubbornly going for that 2-base all-in), post-patch I think Maru will be the strong favourite in any encounter between them. Claiming that Maru (or anyone one else who loses) "deserves to win" because of circumstance is just being butthurt though.
Predictability? Of course it's predictable but what else is he supposed to do in the current state? However, stalker nerf has also a buff to it, so while they are gonna need 4 shots against scv / marines, they'll shoot faster.
He should've mixed up his builds more. There's more than one all-in he could have gone for, and going for a macro games isn't an awful idea against Dear of all people. Game 5 Dear was completely expecting that build, which is why he went for that composition and took the gold base. Maru can get too stubborn and tunnel vision on builds I think (like in his series against TIME he should've switched it up earlier).
And the stalker nerf is just a nerf. I don't think think the stalker gets better in any situation that can arise in PvT. In PvZ you do kill zerglings faster, but I'm not sure if it's particularly relevant in practice.
On January 24 2018 17:56 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Having a one game lead is dumb. If both players are playing each other again it means that they're both in the loser's bracket due to having lost to someone. Who they lost to initially is irrelevant--they're in the loser's bracket and should be on equal footing.
Who they lost to should be relevent because it can be players from a vastly different skill range. Example, you beat someone 2-0 then lose to a god-tier player in the winners match, the player you beat initially then beats a low level player in the losers match. In the final match they win 2-1. Your performance in this case would be objectively superior, yet you'd lose to a player you went 3-2 against.
The system isn't perfect, but giving the upper bracket winner an advantage in the rematch would be worse. Because while you can construct theoretical examples where the "reward" of winning and getting a shorter path to qualify is worth nothing, this isn't the case in practice. And everyone hated MLG extended series...
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote:In GSL, people have often lost 0-2 and then won 2-1 versus the same player in the loser's final. The fact that Maru won more games is not particularly relevant.
Which is still one of the stupidest parts of group stages. My opinion has never changed on this. If someone has already won the inital match, they should have at least a bonus map score going into the final match. You shouldn't be able to beat someone in maps but still technically lose
On January 24 2018 17:11 FrkFrJss wrote: Also, the nerfs that Protoss is getting along with the buffs Terran is getting wouldn't really have made much of a difference given that the games Dear won went past the early game, and stalkers get worse as time goes on. Also, the disruption matrix lasting a couple seconds longer would not have made Maru win.
Are you serious? The stalker nerf is huge. It means they can no longer 3 shot marines/scvs. They will also take an extra shot to kill medivacs I belive. These things may sound small but they make a huge difference in game, when you consider how much damage is typically done with early stalker aggression, along with picking off medivacs and units moving across the map. Even the threat of stalkers in their current state forces terrans to play more conservatively.
The buff to interference matrix would also have made a difference given how much emphasis maru put on using it. He was trying to use it to snipe warp prisms iirc. The ghost change also allows terran to react to templar and archons much faster.
Just because Dear didn't win with blink stalker allins every game doesn't mean the balance had no effect on the outcome. Protoss gateway units being so strong gives them such an easy route to the lategame that terrans are forced to 2 base allin or die.
In a bo3, having a 1 game lead is massive.
Given what we've seen from Korean TvP, which hasn't been extensive, I don't believe that the balance is as bad as people make it out to be.
I agree that Protoss is favoured over Terran, but in a bo5, I don't think that Dear won due to balance. Balance helped, but it didn't make him win. I watched Maru, and he was fine in the mid game. In fact, game 4 highlighted just how bad stalkers are in a midgame context.
I disagree. TvP balance is quite rubbish currently, and while Dear and Maru both showed pretty big weaknesses (namely poor macroing for Dear, and predictability from Maru stubbornly going for that 2-base all-in), post-patch I think Maru will be the strong favourite in any encounter between them. Claiming that Maru (or anyone one else who loses) "deserves to win" because of circumstance is just being butthurt though.
Predictability? Of course it's predictable but what else is he supposed to do in the current state? However, stalker nerf has also a buff to it, so while they are gonna need 4 shots against scv / marines, they'll shoot faster.
He should've mixed up his builds more. There's more than one all-in he could have gone for, and going for a macro games isn't an awful idea against Dear of all people. Game 5 Dear was completely expecting that build, which is why he went for that composition and took the gold base. Maru can get too stubborn and tunnel vision on builds I think (like in his series against TIME he should've switched it up earlier).
And the stalker nerf is just a nerf. I don't think think the stalker gets better in any situation that can arise in PvT. In PvZ you do kill zerglings faster, but I'm not sure if it's particularly relevant in practice.
On January 24 2018 17:56 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Having a one game lead is dumb. If both players are playing each other again it means that they're both in the loser's bracket due to having lost to someone. Who they lost to initially is irrelevant--they're in the loser's bracket and should be on equal footing.
Who they lost to should be relevent because it can be players from a vastly different skill range. Example, you beat someone 2-0 then lose to a god-tier player in the winners match, the player you beat initially then beats a low level player in the losers match. In the final match they win 2-1. Your performance in this case would be objectively superior, yet you'd lose to a player you went 3-2 against.
The system isn't perfect, but giving the upper bracket winner an advantage in the rematch would be worse. Because while you can construct theoretical examples where the "reward" of winning and getting a shorter path to qualify is worth nothing, this isn't the case in practice. And everyone hated MLG extended series...
So change the match into BO5 and give a map advantage. The worst case scenario is 1 game more than in bo3. The favored player has to win 2 to win while the "loser" has to win 3. I know they won't do it, but there are multiple solutions available(I just picked one).
On January 24 2018 18:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:The system isn't perfect, but giving the upper bracket winner an advantage in the rematch would be worse. Because while you can construct theoretical examples where the "reward" of winning and getting a shorter path to qualify is worth nothing, this isn't the case in practice. And everyone hated MLG extended series...
Other than everyone hating it, what reasons are there against it? Being able to beat someone 3-2 yet technically lose is a massive flaw if you ask me.
Take this example from Maru at Shangai last year. He went 3-2 against ByuN and 1-2 against Inno. Byun went 2-3 against Maru and 2-0 against Trust. In terms of results, Maru's performance was better. Losing 1-2 to Inno is no worse than beating Trust 2-0. Did ByuN really deserve to move on here?
On January 24 2018 18:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:The system isn't perfect, but giving the upper bracket winner an advantage in the rematch would be worse. Because while you can construct theoretical examples where the "reward" of winning and getting a shorter path to qualify is worth nothing, this isn't the case in practice. And everyone hated MLG extended series...
Other than everyone hating it, what reasons are there against it? Being able to beat someone 3-2 yet technically lose is a massive flaw if you ask me.
Take this example from Maru at Shangai last year. He went 3-2 against ByuN and 1-2 against Inno. Byun went 2-3 against Maru and 2-0 against Trust. In terms of results, Maru's performance was better. Losing 1-2 to Inno is no worse than beating Trust 2-0. Did ByuN really deserve to move on here?
It penalizes those who the bracket system already penalizes. For beating Dear in the upper bracket, Maru got the reward of being able to try to qualify by beating GuMiho. For losing to Maru, Dear had to beat Zest, TY, and Stats to get to the same place as Maru again.
On January 24 2018 18:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:The system isn't perfect, but giving the upper bracket winner an advantage in the rematch would be worse. Because while you can construct theoretical examples where the "reward" of winning and getting a shorter path to qualify is worth nothing, this isn't the case in practice. And everyone hated MLG extended series...
Other than everyone hating it, what reasons are there against it? Being able to beat someone 3-2 yet technically lose is a massive flaw if you ask me.
Take this example from Maru at Shangai last year. He went 3-2 against ByuN and 1-2 against Inno. Byun went 2-3 against Maru and 2-0 against Trust. In terms of results, Maru's performance was better. Losing 1-2 to Inno is no worse than beating Trust 2-0. Did ByuN really deserve to move on here?
It penalizes those who the bracket system already penalizes. For beating Dear in the upper bracket, Maru got the reward of being able to try to qualify by beating GuMiho. For losing to Maru, Dear had to beat Zest, TY, and Stats to get to the same place as Maru again.
If you model things mathematically I'm pretty sure that giving some sort of advantage to the person who won the initial encounter reduces the chance of the best players advancing, but I'd have to run through the numbers to make sure.
The purpose of the upper/lower bracket is to ensure that the best players gets out of each group, not making easier/harder routes for players.
Every scenario is different. It could be very easy for a player to win the matches in the lower bracket, and harder to win in the upper bracket. Seeing how they play different opponent in the upper/lower brackets, the scores there should be irrelevent, in which case the best way to judge h2h score is to combine results from the first and final matches?
You don't think it's at all wrong to have a 3-2 map score always be a win in the ro8, but potentially a loss in the ro16?
So it's the tournament setup that's wrong. That's why Maru didn't qualify. And people are complaining because it's fan favorite Maru who lost to a protoss. Like that's never happened before. You can say what you want about Dear, but he's got a pretty good history as a progamer. It's always about terran being underpowered. Except everytime Innovation wins something.
Losers brackets are used in many situations and I don't see a problem with it. In GSL Ro32 a player can beat another player 2-0 in the first match, lose the winners match, end up playing the first player again in the last decider match, lose 2-1 and be out of the tournament. The map score vs that player would be 3-2 in favor of the one who ended up not qualifying for Ro16.
Dear beat Scarlett, Zest, TY and Stats before meeting Maru again. Maru beat iAsonu, Scarlett and Dear. I fail to see why Dear doesn't deserve it, just because he lost to Maru initially.
Did I understand it correctly.. Special forfeited because he prepared to play against zerg and he had to play against terran with like 2h notice from ESL?
If thats the sole reason then its a big disappointment.. What kind of sportsmanship is that?? Of course he has all the rights to complain about the sudden change but he should have played the games first. Probably Gumiho had just as much preparation as Special..
In starcraft you have to play against all the races.. not just one that you pick.. If you prepare for only 1 matchup then you have NO rights to complain that you have to play someone else. You dont play to be the Champion of TvZ or ZvZ.. You play to win and if you win such big tournament as IEM then that means you are currently the best starcraft player.
On January 24 2018 17:17 Poopi wrote: What the fuck happened? I sent to bed after Maru 2-1Dear and Elazer 1-1 Stats and the results are this ? Is Stats shit now or Elazer good? Altho it confirms that Elazer>LosirA as I Saïd in some GSL thread.
On January 24 2018 21:57 Vanillatoss wrote: Did I understand it correctly.. Special forfeited because he prepared to play against zerg and he had to play against terran with like 2h notice from ESL?
If thats the sole reason then its a big disappointment.. What kind of sportsmanship is that?? Of course he has all the rights to complain about the sudden change but he should have played the games first. Probably Gumiho had just as much preparation as Special..
In starcraft you have to play against all the races.. not just one that you pick.. If you prepare for only 1 matchup then you have NO rights to complain that you have to play someone else. You dont play to be the Champion of TvZ or ZvZ.. You play to win and if you win such big tournament as IEM then that means you are currently the best starcraft player.
It seems like he was really unhappy with how the bracket was reseeded. I.e. the replacements were seeded at the bottom, so he felt got a raw deal as the #1 seed. Finding out late compounded it.
On January 24 2018 21:57 Vanillatoss wrote: Did I understand it correctly.. Special forfeited because he prepared to play against zerg and he had to play against terran with like 2h notice from ESL?
If thats the sole reason then its a big disappointment.. What kind of sportsmanship is that?? Of course he has all the rights to complain about the sudden change but he should have played the games first. Probably Gumiho had just as much preparation as Special..
In starcraft you have to play against all the races.. not just one that you pick.. If you prepare for only 1 matchup then you have NO rights to complain that you have to play someone else. You dont play to be the Champion of TvZ or ZvZ.. You play to win and if you win such big tournament as IEM then that means you are currently the best starcraft player.
It seems like he was really unhappy with how the bracket was reseeded. I.e. the replacements were seeded at the bottom, so he felt got a raw deal as the #1 seed. Finding out late compounded it.
So I guess it would be better to remake whole bracket and screw everybody else right? Or maybe give him free win over Neeb or Kelazhur?
On January 24 2018 21:57 Vanillatoss wrote: Did I understand it correctly.. Special forfeited because he prepared to play against zerg and he had to play against terran with like 2h notice from ESL?
If thats the sole reason then its a big disappointment.. What kind of sportsmanship is that?? Of course he has all the rights to complain about the sudden change but he should have played the games first. Probably Gumiho had just as much preparation as Special..
In starcraft you have to play against all the races.. not just one that you pick.. If you prepare for only 1 matchup then you have NO rights to complain that you have to play someone else. You dont play to be the Champion of TvZ or ZvZ.. You play to win and if you win such big tournament as IEM then that means you are currently the best starcraft player.
It seems like he was really unhappy with how the bracket was reseeded. I.e. the replacements were seeded at the bottom, so he felt got a raw deal as the #1 seed. Finding out late compounded it.
So I guess it would be better to remake whole bracket and screw everybody else right? Or maybe give him free win over Neeb or Kelazhur?
why you assume stuff without information?. i got told 7pm day on official website of iem i didnt look at liquidpedia before i would play losira into mostlikely soo into someone else that was most likely zerg. its my right to prepare the way i want? im progamer ur not i didnt see need to play any terran since if i played one i mostlilkely would play in loser bracket anyway. so yes if i only played vs zerg its my right. you can aee with way i prepare my tournament or not but it dosent matter? im the one playing
so yes i wake up and 30min before tournament starts not even told by admind that all bracket was changed me and scarlett were so surprised. i look at it and i had to play gumiho into like ty into maru. i prepared 0 tvt so yes im allowed to get upset i wasnt noticed that all bracket was changed?
not to mention all seedings is completly fucked up invited players are seed 1-8 and qualified from stage 1 are 9-16 being based in blizzcon into WCS for priority so i was seed #1
first of all soo vs ty cannot even be played cause its always supposed to be stage 1 vs invited always. and seed wise this woulda been seed 1 vs seed 2 from stage 1 comming into stage 2. aka seed 9 and 10. so its wrong than neeb and kelazhur got replaced by gumiho and probe. somehow probe had a higher seed than gumiho for what ever reason.
i didnt expect anyone to forfeit. i just didnt see reason to play i wake up all bracket gets changed without noticing to me i practiced 0 tvt. u can agree or disagree all you want im the one that plays and its messed up. that at the very least i didnt get a message about it.
apparently some people got emails. i never did. i did saw scarlett email the next morming(30mins before playing qualifier) and all the email contained was a link to bracket saying here is bracket. no where it even mentioned being a new bracket. why would she ever click that anyway if she already got linked before by admind the bracket? least email can contain is. hey here is new bracket please check it out old one is obsolete or something like that but nope.
dosent matter anyway since i didnt get that supposed email
On January 24 2018 21:57 Vanillatoss wrote: Did I understand it correctly.. Special forfeited because he prepared to play against zerg and he had to play against terran with like 2h notice from ESL?
If thats the sole reason then its a big disappointment.. What kind of sportsmanship is that?? Of course he has all the rights to complain about the sudden change but he should have played the games first. Probably Gumiho had just as much preparation as Special..
In starcraft you have to play against all the races.. not just one that you pick.. If you prepare for only 1 matchup then you have NO rights to complain that you have to play someone else. You dont play to be the Champion of TvZ or ZvZ.. You play to win and if you win such big tournament as IEM then that means you are currently the best starcraft player.
It seems like he was really unhappy with how the bracket was reseeded. I.e. the replacements were seeded at the bottom, so he felt got a raw deal as the #1 seed. Finding out late compounded it.
So I guess it would be better to remake whole bracket and screw everybody else right? Or maybe give him free win over Neeb or Kelazhur?
why you assume stuff without information?. i got told 7pm day on official website of iem i didnt look at liquidpedia before i would play losira into mostlikely soo into someone else that was most likely zerg. its my right to prepare the way i want? im progamer ur not i didnt see need to play any terran since if i played one i mostlilkely would play in loser bracket anyway. so yes if i only played vs zerg its my right. you can aee with way i prepare my tournament or not but it dosent matter? im the one playing
so yes i wake up and 30min before tournament starts not even told by admind that all bracket was changed me and scarlett were so surprised. i look at it and i had to play gumiho into like ty into maru. i prepared 0 tvt so yes im allowed to get upset i wasnt noticed that all bracket was changed?
not to mention all seedings is completly fucked up invited players are seed 1-8 and qualified from stage 1 are 9-16 being based in blizzcon into WCS for priority so i was seed #1
first of all soo vs ty cannot even be played cause its always supposed to be stage 1 vs invited always. and seed wise this woulda been seed 1 vs seed 2 from stage 1 comming into stage 2. aka seed 9 and 10. so its wrong than neeb and kelazhur got replaced by gumiho and probe. somehow probe had a higher seed than gumiho for what ever reason.
i didnt expect anyone to forfeit. i just didnt see reason to play i wake up all bracket gets changed without noticing to me i practiced 0 tvt. u can agree or disagree all you want im the one that plays and its messed up. that at the very least i didnt get a message about it.
apparently some people got emails. i never did. i did saw scarlett email the next morming(30mins before playing qualifier) and all the email contained was a link to bracket saying here is bracket. no where it even mentioned being a new bracket. why would she ever click that anyway if she already got linked before by admind the bracket? least email can contain is. hey here is new bracket please check it out old one is obsolete or something like that but nope.
dosent matter anyway since i didnt get that supposed email
than i wake up and
So you didn't use the LP bracket? Because Apollos is saying that the official bracket was never wrong to begin with. The email went out because they noticed the LP bracket was wrong. They never changed anything, according to Apollo.
On January 24 2018 22:38 AzAlexZ wrote: 1 race each Overall from all qualifiers 4P 3T 4Z #BALANCED
And so far in GSL it's 4P, 4T, 4Z, with the possibility of the last two groups skewing it a bit.
Why the fuk are people complaining about terran being weak then? It's FUKING balanced, across the board (except for WCS Leipzig WITH SO MANY ZERGS and TERRANS)
On January 24 2018 21:57 Vanillatoss wrote: Did I understand it correctly.. Special forfeited because he prepared to play against zerg and he had to play against terran with like 2h notice from ESL?
If thats the sole reason then its a big disappointment.. What kind of sportsmanship is that?? Of course he has all the rights to complain about the sudden change but he should have played the games first. Probably Gumiho had just as much preparation as Special..
In starcraft you have to play against all the races.. not just one that you pick.. If you prepare for only 1 matchup then you have NO rights to complain that you have to play someone else. You dont play to be the Champion of TvZ or ZvZ.. You play to win and if you win such big tournament as IEM then that means you are currently the best starcraft player.
It seems like he was really unhappy with how the bracket was reseeded. I.e. the replacements were seeded at the bottom, so he felt got a raw deal as the #1 seed. Finding out late compounded it.
So I guess it would be better to remake whole bracket and screw everybody else right? Or maybe give him free win over Neeb or Kelazhur?
why you assume stuff without information?. i got told 7pm day on official website of iem i didnt look at liquidpedia before i would play losira into mostlikely soo into someone else that was most likely zerg. its my right to prepare the way i want? im progamer ur not i didnt see need to play any terran since if i played one i mostlilkely would play in loser bracket anyway. so yes if i only played vs zerg its my right. you can aee with way i prepare my tournament or not but it dosent matter? im the one playing
so yes i wake up and 30min before tournament starts not even told by admind that all bracket was changed me and scarlett were so surprised. i look at it and i had to play gumiho into like ty into maru. i prepared 0 tvt so yes im allowed to get upset i wasnt noticed that all bracket was changed?
not to mention all seedings is completly fucked up invited players are seed 1-8 and qualified from stage 1 are 9-16 being based in blizzcon into WCS for priority so i was seed #1
first of all soo vs ty cannot even be played cause its always supposed to be stage 1 vs invited always. and seed wise this woulda been seed 1 vs seed 2 from stage 1 comming into stage 2. aka seed 9 and 10. so its wrong than neeb and kelazhur got replaced by gumiho and probe. somehow probe had a higher seed than gumiho for what ever reason.
i didnt expect anyone to forfeit. i just didnt see reason to play i wake up all bracket gets changed without noticing to me i practiced 0 tvt. u can agree or disagree all you want im the one that plays and its messed up. that at the very least i didnt get a message about it.
apparently some people got emails. i never did. i did saw scarlett email the next morming(30mins before playing qualifier) and all the email contained was a link to bracket saying here is bracket. no where it even mentioned being a new bracket. why would she ever click that anyway if she already got linked before by admind the bracket? least email can contain is. hey here is new bracket please check it out old one is obsolete or something like that but nope.
dosent matter anyway since i didnt get that supposed email
than i wake up and
So you didn't use the LP bracket? Because Apollos is saying that the official bracket was never wrong to begin with. The email went out because they noticed the LP bracket was wrong. They never changed anything, according to Apollo.
Can someone from liquipedia comment on that? I just find it hard to believe tbh, while errors are obviously possible in the end updating a bracket like that is really straight forward and the usual people updating it seem to do a good job. Sounds fishy to me
On January 24 2018 22:38 AzAlexZ wrote: 1 race each Overall from all qualifiers 4P 3T 4Z #BALANCED
And so far in GSL it's 4P, 4T, 4Z, with the possibility of the last two groups skewing it a bit.
Why the fuk are people complaining about terran being weak then? It's FUKING balanced, across the board (except for WCS Leipzig WITH SO MANY ZERGS and TERRANS)
I'm not sure if this is trolling or not? The distribution of races with 11/12 players is not indicative of balance, and probably won't ever be, except if one race is sufficiently overpowered to allow inferior players win almost everytime. Firstly because that's not enough players to have statistical value.
Secondly, because balance affects matches that are otherwise 50-50, or even 60-40, not 70+. For example, terrans struggle in TvP at the moment, but champions such as TY and Gumiho still managed to beat Hurricane who is a league below them. However TY lost a bunch of protoss closer to his skill level (Zest, Classic, etc...)
It doesn't matter much atm because the game will be soon patched and there are new maps, but we are indeed lucky that the bracket allowed for an even distribution of races so the tournament will be interesting to watch for everyone.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/05hw83S.jpg)
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IEM Season XII - World Championship
