The Team Liquid Map Contest #9 is in full swing with map submissions closed and judging underway to secure the 16 finalists. The map contest is a chance for map makers to submit their best work for a chance of winning a portion of a $1000 prize. The map contest is also used as a way for Blizzard to find new ladder maps for future map pools.
Previous Map Contests have brought forward maps such as Frost, New Gettysburg, Ascension to Aiur and many others into the ladder map pool. One of the important parts of the contest is the tournament phase in which the map makers, judges and the public can see the finalists in action, being played on by some of the best players in the world. It is the tournament phase which allows map makers to see what changes they need to make to really make their map the breakthrough of the tournament.
We're happy to announce that WardiTV will be running the $4000 Blizzard sponsored event "WardiTV Team Liquid Map Contest Tournament" for the tournament phase of the 9th Team Liquid Map Contest. The event will feature 16 of the best players in the world & will run every day from the 16th-22nd September.
The tournament will run Ro16 Round Robin Groups of 4 players, where each player plays 3 maps against every other player, followed by a single elimination bracket including a third place match (BO5/BO7/BO15)
On September 15 2017 03:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote: How are the maps chosen? I hope they are assigned to the players so that they all get even coverage.
I have devised a system which allows the players to veto and have some choice in maps while making sure all maps are played fairly evenly. Will adjust if required during the event.
Really nice job whoever organized this (for starters wardi, but also whoever else involved), best lineup we've ever had by far for a map tourney and also sick casters.
edit: ah blizzard sponsored. Reading comprehension and all that. Still gj whoever else did stuff
Awsome lineup! But how is it possible to have such a lineup while overlapping with the GSL Supertournament qualifier? However, I know what I will do this weekend: GSL final, GSL Supertournament qualifier and WardiTV Teamliquid Map contest! It will be awsome!
Thanks everyone for upping the game from TLMC8 lol
Im also curious about if youre casting solo or with a guest caster Wardi. Youre a very good solo caster, at the same time though, i wouldnt mind seeing zombiegrub or Maynarde!
Either way, this is still exciting
Praying for a Scarlett victory, or else I dont see any zerg in the finals
Will these goes on youtube almost directly after? I'll be able to catch the livecast about 1/2 way through but would love to watch games asap if possible. =)
On September 16 2017 10:13 SidianTheBard wrote: Will these goes on youtube almost directly after? I'll be able to catch the livecast about 1/2 way through but would love to watch games asap if possible. =)
Hey, the YouTube uploads will probably be delayed but our Twitch videos & past broadcasts are not behind a sub wall and will be available immediately (even during the event, if you want to go back and watch a certain series while the event is still going).
We are also aiming to run a rebroadcast later in the day / straight after the event, depending on how the situation seems to be.
On September 16 2017 20:31 LennX wrote: This blackpink map is too freaking bright =/ It reminds me f the discontinued snow maps as the glaze is straining ont he eyes after repeated games
The map is pitch black. You might want to change your monitor's contrast settings.
I think this map is extremely interesting. Reminds me a bit of the bw weirdness where only particular units can bypass certain areas (eggs/assimilators, etc)
On September 16 2017 21:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think this map is extremely interesting. Reminds me a bit of the bw weirdness where only particular units can bypass certain areas (eggs/assimilators, etc)
On September 16 2017 21:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think this map is extremely interesting. Reminds me a bit of the bw weirdness where only particular units can bypass certain areas (eggs/assimilators, etc)
we got a map like that in LRTL
You guys didn't get the actual interesting maps for LRTL, shame!
On September 16 2017 21:56 Elentos wrote: Which brilliant mind allowed Sky Garden to make the finals of TLMC with no spawn restrictions?
Imo you should be able to spawn at any base on that map
Oh yeah I too greatly enjoy queen/ling drop all-ins with an air distance of 10 seconds
Just to be clear, no map is ever allowed to have main bases to be close by air because queen drop allins exist? Again if we only every allow "standard" then most games look similar. I would rather have players adapt for once And if every bit of difference always creates huge problems maybe the game just sucks
On September 16 2017 21:56 Elentos wrote: Which brilliant mind allowed Sky Garden to make the finals of TLMC with no spawn restrictions?
Imo you should be able to spawn at any base on that map
Oh yeah I too greatly enjoy queen/ling drop all-ins with an air distance of 10 seconds
Just to be clear, no map is ever allowed to have main bases to be close by air because queen drop allins exist? Again if we only every allow "standard" then most games look similar. I would rather have players adapt for once And if every bit of difference always creates huge problems maybe the game just sucks
On September 16 2017 21:56 Elentos wrote: Which brilliant mind allowed Sky Garden to make the finals of TLMC with no spawn restrictions?
Imo you should be able to spawn at any base on that map
Oh yeah I too greatly enjoy queen/ling drop all-ins with an air distance of 10 seconds
Just to be clear, no map is ever allowed to have main bases to be close by air because queen drop allins exist? Again if we only every allow "standard" then most games look similar. I would rather have players adapt for once And if every bit of difference always creates huge problems maybe the game just sucks
It was one example. Not that you care.
You made the pretty conclusive statement which implied that it's totally ridiculous to allow these spawns.
On September 16 2017 21:41 Weavel wrote: Is this really called Dogs Garden?
No it's supposed to be God's Garden
It had to be reuploaded and when it was reuploaded the word "God" was being denied ("Janus" was also denied because of the end of the word on a reupload), hence the wonky name
On September 17 2017 03:06 Solar424 wrote: What now? Chaos tiebreakers?
BO1s on Arch of Janus.
Okay but really, we'll play tiebreakers off stream at some point soon (waiting until after GSL Super Tournament Qualifiers to figure it out.) We will cast them from replays one day, depending when they are done. Format will likely just be BO1s though, not sure how maps will be picked yet.
fun game. really wish we could have two map pools, one competitive and one 'wild' or something like in hearthstone. then you could host smaller 'wild' tournaments with map like janus, and not disrupt the wcs pool with experiments. i don't really mind maps like janus or dasan if they can keep to a separate map pool and separate competitions, in fact it'd be hilarious and fun to play in.
it's just mixing the two i'm not a fan of since in the history of starcraft we've consistently failed at least 15 times at having a universally accepted as good and balanced 7map competitive pool.
On September 17 2017 21:58 Liquid`Snute wrote: fun game. really wish we could have two map pools, one competitive and one 'wild' or something like in hearthstone. then you could host wild tournaments with map like janus, and not disrupt the wcs pool with experiments. i don't really mind maps like janus or dasan if they can keep to a separate map pool and separate competitions, in fact it'd be hilarious and fun to play in.
it's just mixing the two i'm not a fan of since in the history of starcraft we've consistently failed at least 15 times at having a universally accepted as good and balanced 7map competitive pool.
I like this idea but it's probably not going to happen...
I remember TB mentioning back during SHOUTCraft Clan Wars that most of the players were loathe to practice on the new/weird maps.
On September 17 2017 21:58 Liquid`Snute wrote: fun game. really wish we could have two map pools, one competitive and one 'wild' or something like in hearthstone. then you could host smaller 'wild' tournaments with map like janus, and not disrupt the wcs pool with experiments. i don't really mind maps like janus or dasan if they can keep to a separate map pool and separate competitions, in fact it'd be hilarious and fun to play in.
it's just mixing the two i'm not a fan of since in the history of starcraft we've consistently failed at least 15 times at having a universally accepted as good and balanced 7map competitive pool.
Who would be willing to play in such a tournament though? The vast majority of players hates playing on weird maps.
On September 17 2017 23:19 Soke wrote: TY was super dead though. That was a complete all-in.
He was up in workers and on 3 CC, basically the only problem was that he had 0 anti-air.
Yeah, he was up in workers, but 30s later he would have no workers left, and even after that, it would take so long to get a thor out, would be too late then.
On September 17 2017 23:19 Soke wrote: TY was super dead though. That was a complete all-in.
He was up in workers and on 3 CC, basically the only problem was that he had 0 anti-air.
Yeah, he was up in workers, but 30s later he would have no workers left, and even after that, it would take so long to get a thor out, would be too late then.
Scarlett had like 5 mutas, let's not exaggerate. If he made an ebay when he saw the mutas he could have had turrets and played from there tbh. He just didn't.
On September 17 2017 23:19 Soke wrote: TY was super dead though. That was a complete all-in.
He was up in workers and on 3 CC, basically the only problem was that he had 0 anti-air.
if he had thrown down an ebay the second he saw mutas I think he would've turrets in time.
Maybe. It was a fairly dedicated all-in. He wouldn't be able to push out until Thors, and he was so far away from Thors. It was a really tough situation to be in. Maybe worth playing out, but he didn't drop an ebay, he tried to micro the attack, and so it was an even tougher situation.
On September 17 2017 23:53 Elentos wrote: This last game was embarrassing as fuck
how about you try and see how easy it is ?
At least I would make a bunker on the high ground if the low ground one will obviously never finish
and then you're stuck on 1 base for 8 minutes and probably lose
That's still more of a chance than I'd have if I didn't have a bunker and lost my first set of units fighting on the low ground.
I don't expect TY to camp on 1 base and take it. But no back-up bunker is just reckless and nothing else. It was beyond obvious your queen would kill the SCV working on the first. He had enough time, he even lost his first cyclone trying to buy more time.
I admit my choice of words is harsh, but you're not convincing me TY couldn't have done better.
That stasis ward was brutal, but she was probably dead even if it didn't hit. Corruptors into voids just would never pan out without infestors, and they were not gonna be there in time.
So if Scarlett wins this game, will TY and Classic play an extra game, or does Classic go through with better score vs Scarlett, or does TY go through because he beat Classic?
On September 18 2017 00:30 Soke wrote: I didn't think she was dead there. Again, maybe she didn't want TY to advance :p
I mean it was going pretty poorly, lings and queens against chargelots and archons? I don't think the spire was any close to done either.
Yeah, but she did have a followup in this case. She was up 20 workers and only down 6 army supply. She could have afforded to take economic damage, and she had been kiting pretty well with the queens, killing quite a few of the zealots.
On September 18 2017 00:30 Soke wrote: I didn't think she was dead there. Again, maybe she didn't want TY to advance :p
I mean it was going pretty poorly, lings and queens against chargelots and archons? I don't think the spire was any close to done either.
Yeah, but she did have a followup in this case. She was up 20 workers and only down 6 army supply. She could have afforded to take economic damage, and she had been kiting pretty well with the queens, killing quite a few of the zealots.
If she'd gotten a chance to snipe the prism maybe she can hold but she didn't get one. No banes left either. Was looking pretty grim. Like, lose 40 workers grim.
On September 18 2017 00:30 Soke wrote: I didn't think she was dead there. Again, maybe she didn't want TY to advance :p
I mean it was going pretty poorly, lings and queens against chargelots and archons? I don't think the spire was any close to done either.
Yeah, but she did have a followup in this case. She was up 20 workers and only down 6 army supply. She could have afforded to take economic damage, and she had been kiting pretty well with the queens, killing quite a few of the zealots.
If she'd gotten a chance to snipe the prism maybe she can hold but she didn't get one. No banes left either. Was looking pretty grim. Like, lose 40 workers grim.
Eh. I'm looking at the replay. There were 7 zealots and 2 archons in her natural. She had 3 queens and like a dozen lings. 2 of the queens were dying, but so were four of the zealots. She had 30 lings, a fourth hatch, and two spines on the way, and Classic didnt have another warp in for a little bit.
On September 17 2017 20:38 IeZaeL wrote: Once the tournament is over will there be a replay pack?
We only send replay packs to subscribers, but can make an exception for the map makers if you send me a message to remind me.
On September 18 2017 00:21 Elentos wrote: So if Scarlett wins this game, will TY and Classic play an extra game, or does Classic go through with better score vs Scarlett, or does TY go through because he beat Classic?
Map score is most important. Tied map score 2-way = series score. Tied map score 3-way then goes to the tied map score of matches exclusively between the 3 players then tiebreakers
it was a slightly early gg but she was probably dead. Rough series for her, maybe was tired cuz it's late over there or maybe the TY series took the energy out of her.
@ the Grime game she pretty much just let Classic get to 3 base unmolested (attempted one 8-ling runby and that was about it) and amass a bunch of voids/oracles so the result wasn't too shocking.
@ the last Arch game (I didnt see the earlier ones so idk what happened on them), I think worker rush isn't viable bc once people have seen the map even once they will always wall and it won't work.
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I do think these map tournaments are particularly brutal on experimental maps because the pro players don't really want to learn the maps so they will just do the lowest effort cheeses to get the game over with. Which to be fair to them is kind of understandable if they have a lot of other stuff going on (needing to train for other higher stake tournaments or whatever), it's just unfortunate
On September 18 2017 01:15 Fatam wrote: it was a slightly early gg but she was probably dead. Rough series for her, maybe was tired cuz it's late over there or maybe the TY series took the energy out of her.
@ the Grime game she pretty much just let Classic get to 3 base unmolested (attempted one 8-ling runby and that was about it) and amass a bunch of voids/oracles so the result wasn't too shocking.
@ the last Arch game (I didnt see the earlier ones so idk what happened on them), I think worker rush isn't viable bc once people have seen the map even once they will always wall and it won't work.
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I do think these map tournaments are particularly brutal on experimental maps because the pro players don't really want to learn the maps so they will just do the lowest effort cheeses to get the game over with. Which to be fair to them is kind of understandable if they have a lot of other stuff going on (needing to train for other higher stake tournaments or whatever), it's just unfortunate
It's not like they had time to learn the maps either.
On September 18 2017 01:15 Fatam wrote: it was a slightly early gg but she was probably dead. Rough series for her, maybe was tired cuz it's late over there or maybe the TY series took the energy out of her.
@ the Grime game she pretty much just let Classic get to 3 base unmolested (attempted one 8-ling runby and that was about it) and amass a bunch of voids/oracles so the result wasn't too shocking.
@ the last Arch game (I didnt see the earlier ones so idk what happened on them), I think worker rush isn't viable bc once people have seen the map even once they will always wall and it won't work.
---------------------------------------------
I do think these map tournaments are particularly brutal on experimental maps because the pro players don't really want to learn the maps so they will just do the lowest effort cheeses to get the game over with. Which to be fair to them is kind of understandable if they have a lot of other stuff going on (needing to train for other higher stake tournaments or whatever), it's just unfortunate
It's not like they had time to learn the maps either.
yeah, it's more of just an unfortunate thing than anyone being at fault
Both neon violet and grime have centered mains instead of corner mains which really sucks vs terran. the "in-base" natural on neon violet holds no value to zerg. And from there, I have to just break down rocks up until minute 12 similar to playing Interloper. Not very fun for zerg.
Grime needs a more accessible 4th.
And then to top it off as if having a centered main instead of a corner main wasn't bad enough, I get unlucky with a 1 in 3 chance and get the worst possible spawns vs terran on sky garden. Leaves me with 2 choices: Letting terran expand freely across the map while i desperately try to keep my main intact vs vacs while trying to drag it to a 40 minute hive game, or all-in with an air-related build (this is what i tried).
Mappers really need to take into account that we don't want spawn related coin flips, and zerg doesn't want to spawn into terran all the time. Focus on fair development and balance. Imagine what pro games play out like before designing the map instead of relying on memes like this. We went over this in 2010 and 2011 already with lost temple and metalopolis. The air spawns on Sky Garden don't even have a sensible 4th for zerg outside of the super-remote gold base, which you'll never have creep control over anyway.
Both neon violet and grime have centered mains instead of corner mains which really sucks vs terran. the "in-base" natural on neon violet holds no value to zerg. And from there, I have to just break down rocks up until minute 12 similar to playing Interloper. Not very fun for zerg.
Grime needs a more accessible 4th.
And then to top it off as if having a centered main instead of a corner main wasn't bad enough, I get unlucky with a 1 in 3 chance and get the worst possible spawns vs terran on sky garden. Leaves me with 2 choices: Letting terran expand freely across the map while i desperately try to keep my main intact vs vacs while trying to drag it to a 40 minute hive game, or all-in with an air-related build (this is what i tried).
Mappers really need to take into account that we don't want spawn related coin flips, and zerg doesn't want to spawn into terran all the time. Focus on fair development and balance. Imagine what pro games play out like before designing the map instead of relying on memes like this. We went over this in 2010 and 2011 already with lost temple and metalopolis. The air spawns on God's Garden don't even have a sensible 4th for zerg outside of the super-remote gold base, which you'll never have creep control over anyway.
/rant
Maybe blame the judges for choosing the questionable maps in the first place
Sure, i was a bit busy with montreal this time around so i didn't judge, will do what i can to be judging in the next one. I hope I'm not alone in that having a 1/3 chance of air and 2/3 chance of long distance is fundamentally bad and should be instantly rejected by default. Others might think differently about spawn coinflips tho.
On September 18 2017 22:19 Liquid`Snute wrote: Sure, i was a bit busy with montreal this time around so i didn't judge, will do what i can to be judging in the next one. I hope I'm not alone in that having a 1/3 chance of air and 2/3 chance of long distance is fundamentally bad and should be instantly rejected by default. Others might think differently about spawn coinflips tho.
I don't get why you wouldn't disable close by air spawns on a map like that. Close by air is always gonna be problematic.
Not that I think cross spawns on a map that size would work out amazingly.
Pretty sure that Snute in the last paragraph is referring to Sky Garden (4spawns), not Gods Garden (2spawns). Understandable error, names are similar, but I'd like if it was corrected.
On September 18 2017 22:22 IeZaeL wrote: Pretty sure that Snute in the last paragraph is referring to Sky Garden (4spawns), not Gods Garden (2spawns). Understandable error, names are similar, but I'd like if it was corrected.
corrected it now sorry would rather have played god's garden but inno vetoed it >_<
On September 20 2017 23:38 Azhrak wrote: So did they re-schedule GuMiho vs Scarlett or is it s no-show win for GuMiho?
Walkover for GuMiho, sadly.
Really not much I can do. We're on such a tight schedule, with RO4 tomorrow already. It's late for GuMiho and there is no guarantee I will be around to sort it out if Scarlett shows up suddenly / GuMiho might be asleep etc.
Also not fun to replace someone. IMO unfair to GuMiho and it also only causes complications to prizes etc.
On September 20 2017 23:38 Azhrak wrote: So did they re-schedule GuMiho vs Scarlett or is it s no-show win for GuMiho?
Walkover for GuMiho, sadly.
Really not much I can do. We're on such a tight schedule, with RO4 tomorrow already. It's late for GuMiho and there is no guarantee I will be around to sort it out if Scarlett shows up suddenly / GuMiho might be asleep etc.
Also not fun to replace someone. IMO unfair to GuMiho and it also only causes complications to prizes etc.
Wasn't directed against you at all, by the way, I think it's the 100% correct decision. It's just a sad one to have to make in the first place.
On September 20 2017 23:38 Azhrak wrote: So did they re-schedule GuMiho vs Scarlett or is it s no-show win for GuMiho?
Walkover for GuMiho, sadly.
Really not much I can do. We're on such a tight schedule, with RO4 tomorrow already. It's late for GuMiho and there is no guarantee I will be around to sort it out if Scarlett shows up suddenly / GuMiho might be asleep etc.
Also not fun to replace someone. IMO unfair to GuMiho and it also only causes complications to prizes etc.
No worries, this tournament is great so far and I am very impressed with your organization.
There's a high chance of Gumiho vs Serral being a first round match at Blizzcon. Unless one of herO or Gumi makes the finals at the ST, they'll both be in Group D with True and Inno.
On September 21 2017 21:59 Fango wrote: Lol who have Gumiho a blizzcon spot. I think him and herO lose at blizzcon ro16 tbh. Gumiho lacks against zerg and herO lacks against non terrans
Lol nobody who loses to white people can be any goood xdDDDxxxdd
but dont worry, my friend, online results dont matter when Koreans lose. Anyone with a Korean ID card will smash the white scum at starcraft
On September 21 2017 21:59 Fango wrote: Lol who have Gumiho a blizzcon spot. I think him and herO lose at blizzcon ro16 tbh. Gumiho lacks against zerg and herO lacks against non terrans
Lol nobody who loses to white people can be any goood xdDDDxxxdd
but dont worry, my friend, online results dont matter when Koreans lose. Anyone with a Korean ID card will smash the white scum at starcraft
I don't mind koreans losing to foreigners if they're good enough. I'm just saying Gumiho's TvZ is lagging. Any of the other top terrans wouldn't be down 0-3 to any zerg minus Dark.
Edit: everyone thinks gumi has amazing TvZ because of the GSL win. But people forget soO's ZvT was even worse.Both of them are carried by mirrors and vP
And herO just sucks when he's not performing some PvT bullshit anyway. He's only at blizzcon because of it
On September 21 2017 21:59 Fango wrote: Lol who have Gumiho a blizzcon spot. I think him and herO lose at blizzcon ro16 tbh. Gumiho lacks against zerg and herO lacks against non terrans
Lol nobody who loses to white people can be any goood xdDDDxxxdd
but dont worry, my friend, online results dont matter when Koreans lose. Anyone with a Korean ID card will smash the white scum at starcraft
I don't mind koreans losing to foreigners if they're good enough. I'm just saying Gumiho's TvZ is lagging. Any of the other top terrans wouldn't be down 0-3 to any zerg minus Dark.
Edit: everyone thinks gumi has amazing TvZ because of the GSL win. But people forget soO's ZvT was even worse.Both of them are carried by mirrors and vP
And herO just sucks when he's not performing some PvT bullshit anyway. He's only at blizzcon because of it
Fun fact : herO's PvT is statistically his worst matchup in 2017 (and LotV as a whole)
On September 21 2017 21:59 Fango wrote: Lol who have Gumiho a blizzcon spot. I think him and herO lose at blizzcon ro16 tbh. Gumiho lacks against zerg and herO lacks against non terrans
Lol nobody who loses to white people can be any goood xdDDDxxxdd
but dont worry, my friend, online results dont matter when Koreans lose. Anyone with a Korean ID card will smash the white scum at starcraft
I don't mind koreans losing to foreigners if they're good enough. I'm just saying Gumiho's TvZ is lagging. Any of the other top terrans wouldn't be down 0-3 to any zerg minus Dark.
Edit: everyone thinks gumi has amazing TvZ because of the GSL win. But people forget soO's ZvT was even worse.Both of them are carried by mirrors and vP
And herO just sucks when he's not performing some PvT bullshit anyway. He's only at blizzcon because of it
Fun fact : herO's PvT is statistically his worst matchup in 2017 (and LotV as a whole)
As far as I'm concerned, his only good tournament results are from adept pheonix being broken against terran during ST1, and TY and Inno choking at IEM shangai
Put herO against a real PvPer and he loses most of the time
Not gonna lie, I really enjoyed that game. When I was designing the map, I thought zerg would not perform so well due to the choke ness of the lanes, but it seems I was proven wrong!
Nicely done by Serral. Different play than vs ByuN the other day, so his ZvT is decent to say the least. Bo15 tomorrow against soO is gonna be ZvZ and Serral has been pretty good in that match-up so it's going to be interesting.
On September 21 2017 22:56 Zaros wrote: With Serral and Neeb at blizzcon could a foreigner finally win?
If by win you mean get to the ro8 then absolutely
I'm hoping for at least 1 in the ro4
As of right now the only koreans they could trash are herO and gumiho, so I can't imagine more than 2 foreigners in the ro8. We'd need Neeb vs Serral in the ro8 to have one of them make ro4
Winning the whole event? Very little chance. One of Inno/Stats/Dark/TY/sOs will win. I can't see any other possibility
On September 21 2017 22:56 Zaros wrote: With Serral and Neeb at blizzcon could a foreigner finally win?
If by win you mean get to the ro8 then absolutely
I'm hoping for at least 1 in the ro4
As of right now the only koreans they could trash are herO and gumiho, so I can't imagine more than 2 foreigners in the ro8. We'd need Neeb vs Serral in the ro8 to have one of them make ro4
Winning the whole event? Very little chance. One of Inno/Stats/Dark/TY/sOs will win. I can't see any other possibility
Neebs already beaten sos recently, he nearly beat TY. After another month of korea practice i think they have a chance to do very well.
On September 21 2017 22:56 Zaros wrote: With Serral and Neeb at blizzcon could a foreigner finally win?
If by win you mean get to the ro8 then absolutely
I'm hoping for at least 1 in the ro4
As of right now the only koreans they could trash are herO and gumiho, so I can't imagine more than 2 foreigners in the ro8. We'd need Neeb vs Serral in the ro8 to have one of them make ro4
Winning the whole event? Very little chance. One of Inno/Stats/Dark/TY/sOs will win. I can't see any other possibility
Neebs already beaten sos recently, he nearly beat TY. After another month of korea practice i think they have a chance to do very well.
sOs and TY have a habit of peaking during big $$$ events (think Neeb vs TY at WeSG lol). Neither of them showed their best form at GSLvsTW, for something like blizzcon I'd expect them to be in good shape
(and no i'm not just saying that because Neeb did well against them. I don't care if a player is from korea or not. I just know that TY and sOs are better than the results they showed there)
Especially sOs who doesn't seem to take any event seriously if it's not blizzcon or GSL
On September 21 2017 22:56 Zaros wrote: With Serral and Neeb at blizzcon could a foreigner finally win?
If by win you mean get to the ro8 then absolutely
I'm hoping for at least 1 in the ro4
As of right now the only koreans they could trash are herO and gumiho, so I can't imagine more than 2 foreigners in the ro8. We'd need Neeb vs Serral in the ro8 to have one of them make ro4
Winning the whole event? Very little chance. One of Inno/Stats/Dark/TY/sOs will win. I can't see any other possibility
Neebs already beaten sos recently, he nearly beat TY. After another month of korea practice i think they have a chance to do very well.
sOs and TY have a habit of peaking during big $$$ events (think Neeb vs TY at WeSG lol). Neither of them showed their best form at GSLvsTW, for something like blizzcon I'd expect them to be in good shape
Especially sOs who doesn't seem to take any event seriously if it's not blizzcon or GSL
I mean if we're qualifying how good people are, then it should also be noted that Terran was strong vs Protoss in early 2017, and Neeb was not playing well at that time either. So then neither should be taken as good examples of their true form.
EDIT: However, yes, sOs has been known to do poorly throughout the year and somehow win at Blizzcon.
On September 21 2017 22:56 Zaros wrote: With Serral and Neeb at blizzcon could a foreigner finally win?
If by win you mean get to the ro8 then absolutely
I'm hoping for at least 1 in the ro4
As of right now the only koreans they could trash are herO and gumiho, so I can't imagine more than 2 foreigners in the ro8. We'd need Neeb vs Serral in the ro8 to have one of them make ro4
Winning the whole event? Very little chance. One of Inno/Stats/Dark/TY/sOs will win. I can't see any other possibility
Neebs already beaten sos recently, he nearly beat TY. After another month of korea practice i think they have a chance to do very well.
sOs and TY have a habit of peaking during big $$$ events (think Neeb vs TY at WeSG lol). Neither of them showed their best form at GSLvsTW, for something like blizzcon I'd expect them to be in good shape
Especially sOs who doesn't seem to take any event seriously if it's not blizzcon or GSL
I mean if we're qualifying how good people are, then it should also be noted that Terran was strong vs Protoss in early 2017, and Neeb was not playing well at that time either. So then neither should be taken as good examples of their true form.
Marine tank pushes were OP sure. But it's not like TY was winning every game with them. He was just as dominent in TvT/Z as well.
Was Neeb really playing worse? Or was it just that he had to play in tournaments with koreans before Circuit started. He was still crushing the other foreigners at WeSG iirc
On September 22 2017 04:11 ZigguratOfUr wrote: So many ZvZs is rather unfortunate since ZvZ is probably the worst match-up when it comes to testing maps (okay PvP might be worse I guess).
I think PvP is slightly better than ZvZ. But it depends who is playing the series for sure. When it's the cancerous 5 min ZvZ games then I definitely lean towards PvP. But some ZvZs are awesome so you never know. I guess it was bound to happen when ro8 was 5 Z, 2 T, and 1 P
On September 22 2017 07:45 Ej_ wrote: ZvZ is hugely map dependant. At every stage of the game.
I don't really agree. Sure from a player perspective distances between Nat and third, and how big of a roach concave you can obtain at so or so locations matters a lot, but from a mapmaking perspective ZvZ doesn't impose too many restrictions on a map beyond basic stuff like overlords positions. So you don't learn as much from watching ZvZ as other matchup.
imo it goes PvZ > TvZ >> PvT > TvT >>> ZvZ > PvP when it comes to how much you learn from testing a map. This ordering does change a bit over time ofc. For example I thought TvZ more important than PvZ before 3.8
To be fair, ZvZ and PvZ were two of the matchups I really worried about on Boardwalk so I'm actually a bit excited to see how it plays out on my map.
I wish Gumiho vs Scarlett wasn't a walkover because Boardwalk would have been played I bet. Without that, it wasn't played at all in the Quarters or Semis (cry) it did get the 3rd place match though which is nice!
I don't think all players from both regions played with serious attitude tbh.You cannot just invite them and expect they will instantly figure out how to play those new maps.
On September 22 2017 17:04 seemsgood wrote: I don't think all players from both regions played with serious attitude tbh.You cannot just invite them and expect they will instantly figure out how to play those new maps.
I think the money involved made most of the players be serious. However, there was not much time to study the maps and test them in different match-ups before the tournament began, so players might not have used optimal strategies, and mainly played as usual. But sure, it's not as serious as the WCS Global Playoffs practice most of these players are putting in currently.
I think the map would be really cool with a base each side, at the moment the rush distance is so small that games just end too quickly. But with a base each side I think it would be a cool compromise of where to focus production and multitasking between each side of the map.
Big shout out to Wardi for casting this tournament every day for the past week. Thank you for everything you do for the sc2 community, I know us map makers appreciate it. You took the time to explain details on maps as well as highlight the map makers themselves. So, here's to you! Thank you! =)
Something about the gap closing, something about the koreans not taking this seriously, something about neebs achievements and blizzcon chances for foreigners.
in all seriousness this was an awesome little tournament, appears to be a little z favoured but wouldn't read too much into that at this stage. still early days.
On September 23 2017 10:23 FataLe wrote: Something about the gap closing, something about the koreans not taking this seriously, something about neebs achievements and blizzcon chances for foreigners.
in all seriousness this was an awesome little tournament, appears to be a little z favoured but wouldn't read too much into that at this stage. still early days.
The reason foreigners didn't lose as hard to Koreans in this tournament was primmarily because these are maps that nobody has practiced on before. You should expect it to be more like a coin flip as to who wins.
Also, can sombody tell m what server they played on?
On September 23 2017 10:23 FataLe wrote: Something about the gap closing, something about the koreans not taking this seriously, something about neebs achievements and blizzcon chances for foreigners.
in all seriousness this was an awesome little tournament, appears to be a little z favoured but wouldn't read too much into that at this stage. still early days.
The reason foreigners didn't lose as hard to Koreans in this tournament was primmarily because these are maps that nobody has practiced on before. You should expect it to be more like a coin flip as to who wins.
Also, can sombody tell m what server they played on?
Finals was played on KR, since Serral is in South Korea atm. New maps yes but saying it's a coin flip is a hyperbole come on.
On September 23 2017 10:23 FataLe wrote: Something about the gap closing, something about the koreans not taking this seriously, something about neebs achievements and blizzcon chances for foreigners.
in all seriousness this was an awesome little tournament, appears to be a little z favoured but wouldn't read too much into that at this stage. still early days.
The reason foreigners didn't lose as hard to Koreans in this tournament was primmarily because these are maps that nobody has practiced on before. You should expect it to be more like a coin flip as to who wins.
Also, can sombody tell m what server they played on?
Expect to be like a coin flip?
That's an exaggeration. Yeah, new maps help even the playing field but that's when supposed superior mechanics should come into play as well.
On September 23 2017 10:23 FataLe wrote: Something about the gap closing, something about the koreans not taking this seriously, something about neebs achievements and blizzcon chances for foreigners.
in all seriousness this was an awesome little tournament, appears to be a little z favoured but wouldn't read too much into that at this stage. still early days.
The reason foreigners didn't lose as hard to Koreans in this tournament was primmarily because these are maps that nobody has practiced on before. You should expect it to be more like a coin flip as to who wins.
Also, can sombody tell m what server they played on?
Expect to be like a coin flip?
That's an exaggeration. Yeah, new maps help even the playing field but that's when supposed superior mechanics should come into play as well.
One could also argue that better decision making / innovation / game knowledge come into play on new maps.
wow I was really impressed that serral went 7-8 against soO but then I saw that soO already clinched it and Serral just won a bunch of maps after the fact
EPT![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/QHluZ7e.png)
soO, 
GuMiho, 
herO & 
WardiTV | 
TakeTV | 
O'Gaming | 
Crank | 
Emil 
![[image loading]](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/08/fe/b9/08feb9123756ed30e3e698c55d72de0b.jpg)
would rather have played god's garden but inno vetoed it >_<
So far all 3 games has been pretty solid - but I might be biased.
thank you for mapmaking support 
