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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
 SSL 2017http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_StarCraft_II_StarLeague_Season_2/Premier StreamsFormat
MatchesResults | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Poll: Dear vs Dark Dark Wins (17) Dear Wins (10) 27 total votes Your vote: Dear vs Dark | ||
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
i wanna see a double GSL+SSL stats - dark final! would be epic | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12426 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:07 Phredxor wrote: Just hoping Dear does some Dear stuff today. Like that was ever up for debate. | ||
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Elentos
55570 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Sure there are players who crack fast but by and large I think getting this level of success as a pro-gamer requires being able to play past those game 1 losses. Also GO DARK! EDIT: Oracles :'( | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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314159271828
16 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:21 Pandemona wrote: Is mass oracle normal? I haven't watched PvZ in a while but what? xD Sadly yes. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:21 Pandemona wrote: Is mass oracle normal? I haven't watched PvZ in a while but what? xD Oracles shred every Zerg unit that doesn't fly so yes. | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:21 Noonius wrote: blessed with only one b05? It'll be over in 35 min It's a bo7 | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:21 Pandemona wrote: Is mass oracle normal? I haven't watched PvZ in a while but what? xD Disgustingly, yes. It's pretty common now. | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Penev
28524 Posts
I say increase queen vs air range | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:21 Ej_ wrote: Oracles shred every Zerg unit that doesn't fly so yes. more proof that zerglings should evolve actual wings. | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
45 min then  but overall b07 is more acceptable | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:26 Ansibled wrote: more proof that zerglings should evolve actual wings. evolution is not there yet | ||
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Colouss
United States501 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:26 Ansibled wrote: more proof that zerglings should evolve actual wings. And then let them morph into banelings while flying. Then we'd have something to deal with air! | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Penev
28524 Posts
there | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Dark :'( | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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10bulgares
352 Posts
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
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Penev
28524 Posts
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agsub
Singapore368 Posts
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
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Penev
28524 Posts
I need moar laz0rs | ||
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Colouss
United States501 Posts
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MrWayne
219 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
(a list containing a couple of mentions of soO >.>) | ||
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:36 MrWayne wrote: Hi Rapid #BigFan! Enjoy the show | ||
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
"worker friendly" "anti death ball" "something to be used alone" | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:28 Ej_ wrote: I tried rewatching that PartinG vs Life series last year, but couldn't. Protoss killed the Zerg 3rd and then tried attacking into mass spine/fungal/+1 ling instead of teching to collo. Highest skill era alright. This morning I rewatched PartinG vs Life of IEM tappei 2015, mass swarmhosts gave me cancer again. Dark wtf... | ||
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darklycid
3541 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:38 Musicus wrote: Never forget :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5e5LqavC1M "worker friendly" "anti death ball" "something to be used alone" I liked entomb but they had to make it the beam of death | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:40 RKC wrote: Guess this is why soO tried out for ASL >< Hopefully his vT is better in BW. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:38 Musicus wrote: Never forget :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5e5LqavC1M "worker friendly" "anti death ball" "something to be used alone" Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. | ||
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Elentos
55570 Posts
Well he got eliminated by no-name amateurs so it's hardly to be taken serious. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
His ZvT winrate in SC2 is close to the overall ZvT winrate in BW so. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:44 Elentos wrote: Well he got eliminated by no-name amateurs so it's hardly to be taken serious. Just goes to show the superiority of BW players. | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
LLL... L | ||
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:44 RKC wrote: Another Dear map? Dafuq? How does the map picks even work? >< This map is actually Dark's highest pick. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
6 oracles vs 10 queens with energy | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:56 darklycid wrote: The one time dark doesnt loose 20 workers in the early but plays defensively he very much wins. The first time they play a map that is Zerg and not Protoss favored, you mean | ||
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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darklycid
3541 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:57 Ej_ wrote: make lurkers plz The first time they play a map that is Zerg and not Protoss favored, you mean Also matters :D | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
thanks | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On September 04 2017 19:56 darklycid wrote: The one time dark doesnt loose 20 workers in the early but plays defensively he very much wins. Dear: -Ran oracles into many more queens with energy -Lost many probes to runbys and banes -Cancelled storm It's like there are other factors to consider there. | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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darklycid
3541 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:00 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Dear: -Ran oracles into many more queens with energy -Lost many probes to runbys and banes -Cancelled storm It's like there are other factors to consider there. He flew into the queens once in the earlygame (and once when the game was over). He lost probes but always had a healthy count. He cancelled storm to hold the push but was pretty dead there anyways. So i dare to say if you dont fuck up the early like that mass oracle isnt that imba. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:04 darklycid wrote: He flew into the queens once in the earlygame (and once when the game was over). He lost probes but always had a healthy count. He cancelled storm to hold the push but was pretty dead there anyways. So i dare to say if you dont fuck up the early like that mass oracle isnt that imba. Yeah it definitely isn't imba on the Zerg's strongest map if the Protoss can't control their units versus the best Zerg in the world | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
this guy won the first 2 games | ||
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darklycid
3541 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:05 Ej_ wrote: Yeah it definitely isn't imba on the Zerg's strongest map if the Protoss can't control their units versus the best Zerg in the world He lost 2 oracles when he flew into the queens and in the big fight he controlled the oracles quite well so nah. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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Penev
28524 Posts
next up: little choke | ||
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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agsub
Singapore368 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:08 AzAlexZ wrote: gg 2-2 | ||
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Quineotio
Australia128 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:21 agsub wrote: I am not sure if any of the games so far qualifies as really good games... They're good in that they illustrate a potential problem with the game. I guess. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
GG WP DARK! | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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agsub
Singapore368 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
THE MOST COST EFFICIENT UNIT IN THE GAME | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
The thing missing was a mass Adept game. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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10bulgares
352 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:44 10bulgares wrote: Disruptor barely not killing the swarmhost hurts (Dear would have lost anyway but still). Not reliable enough. | ||
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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314159271828
16 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
Anyway, gg wp Dark! | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:45 Musicus wrote: No idea why Dear didn't build more voidrays and went for disruptors to clean up locusts instead. Because Dear. | ||
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:45 Phredxor wrote: Dark better be ready for Classics oracles. Mentally, Classic is already eliminated 0-4 because Zerg. | ||
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10bulgares
352 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:45 Musicus wrote: No idea why Dear didn't build more voidrays and went for disruptors to clean up locusts instead. Anyway, gg wp Dark! Against the mobility of the swarmhosts, void rays are too slow? Phoenix not effective. There's only the Oracle once more. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 04 2017 20:46 10bulgares wrote: Against the mobility of the swarmhosts, void rays are too slow? Phoenix not effective. There's only the Oracle once more. Archon/overcharge deals with locusts just fine | ||
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darklycid
3541 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
By the way I'm 2nd place in liquibets, so I have some bragging to do  | ||
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zakadar
Germany409 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
I'd say there's a 50% chance of Stats being in both finals, and maybe 30% chance of Dark being in both. That's 15% overall | ||
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zakadar
Germany409 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 05 2017 02:19 zakadar wrote: I would see stats in both finals at 80% or more and dark at 40% I would agree that Stats has a very high chance to be in at least one starleague final. | ||
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On September 05 2017 01:10 Fango wrote: I don't think a Stats vs Dark final in both leagues will happen tbh. Dark needs 100% of his time to practice ZvT if he wants to beat Inno. I'd say there's a 50% chance of Stats being in both finals, and maybe 30% chance of Dark being in both. That's 15% overall Given that he's already in the SSL finals and the favorite in the GSL semis I'd say 50% is a bit low. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Though I would prefer to see Inno vs sOs, personally, so there isn't overlap. Stats will probably win one of the two, but likely not both. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Dark vs Stats in both finals could definitely happen though it's obviously not extremely likely. But it's a decent chance tbh. If i had to guess i would say it's Inno vs Stats in GSL and Dark vs Stats in SSL. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 05 2017 03:44 Elentos wrote: Given that he's already in the SSL finals and the favorite in the GSL semis I'd say 50% is a bit low. Nah, I'd put Stats' chance at 50%. All depends on if sOs shows up or not, he's one of the best PvPers of all time when he's in good form. Especially in a bo7 As for Dark, I'd give him like a 40% to beat Inno, and maybe 60% to beat Classic | ||
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
He just took down Dear, who proves more problematic for him than Classic ever has. He beat INnoVation 3-0 a few weeks ago and just stomped TY 3-0. Dark is definitely making it to both finals, and probably winning both. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 05 2017 06:59 Myrddrael wrote: Really? Dark has a superb chance to make it both finals. He just took down Dear, who proves more problematic for him than Classic ever has. He beat INnoVation 3-0 a few weeks ago and just stomped TY 3-0. Dark is definitely making it to both finals, and probably winning both. This is one of those comments that simply must be reposted after Dark gets knocked out in both semis, for the dramatic irony. Tempting fate. Counting your chickens. Pride goeth before a fall. Karma. There's a million names for the same flaw of arrogance. Seriously though, while Dark is in great form, claiming that players like Classic and INnoVation will just roll over and die is waaaaay too bold. Dark has a decent chance. Maybe he will make both finals, maybe he will win both Starleagues. Maybe not. | ||
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
On September 05 2017 07:20 pvsnp wrote: This is one of those comments that simply must be reposted after Dark gets knocked out in both semis, for the dramatic irony. Tempting fate. Counting your chickens. Pride goeth before a fall. Karma. There's a million names for the same flaw of arrogance. Seriously though, while Dark is in great form, claiming that players like Classic and INnoVation will just roll over and die is waaaaay too bold. Dark has a decent chance. Maybe he will make both finals, maybe he will win both Starleagues. Maybe not. I will quote it myself in this very thread when he does. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 05 2017 06:59 Myrddrael wrote: Really? Dark has a superb chance to make it both finals. He just took down Dear, who proves more problematic for him than Classic ever has. He beat INnoVation 3-0 a few weeks ago and just stomped TY 3-0. Dark is definitely making it to both finals, and probably winning both. No one has a superb chance to beat Inno in a bo7. Let alone beat Inno and Classic in bo7s within 2 days of eachother. Even if he had a 70% to beat Inno (which he doesn't), and 70% to beat Classic, that's less than 50% to beat both. Can it be done? Yes. Is it likely? Nope. Is Dark the only zerg on a level that could do it? Probably. But still, there's a reason that we almost never get dual finalists | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 05 2017 09:15 Fango wrote: No one has a superb chance to beat Inno in a bo7. Let alone beat Inno and Classic in bo7s within 2 days of eachother. Even if he had a 70% to beat Inno (which he doesn't), and 70% to beat Classic, that's less than 50% to beat both. Can it be done? Yes. Is it likely? Nope. Is Dark the only zerg on a level that could do it? Probably. But still, there's a reason that we almost never get dual finalists This. As strong as Dark is--and he's very strong indeed, the best Zerg around right now--both Inno and Classic are old teammates of his who are very familiar with his playstyle, as well as being top-tier players in their own right. Artosis was just calling Inno the best player in the world on the same day Dark beat TY. Both of them have just been treated to a great example of Dark's ZvT and ZvP against TY and Dear, respectively, two more top-tier players, so their insight into Dark's playstyle and form couldn't be better. Both of them have at least a week to prepare for one match, while Dark must prepare for two in a handful of days. Both of them are Dark's usual practice partners for ZvP and ZvT, and both of them have more on the line than Dark does. Going into the GSL and SSL semifinals, both INnoVation and Classic have just about every advantage possible over Dark. The one thing Dark has going for him is also his biggest weakness--he's amply demonstrated his own form on the big stage while neither of them have played a top Zerg in weeks. Dark is a great player, and he has a reasonable chance to win one series, or even both series. It is completely possible. It is also completely possible that Inno and Classic beat the ever-loving shit out of him, or that they just barely manage to defeat Dark in grueling 7-game series. Or anything in between. Regardless, we'll find out soon enough. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 05 2017 09:15 Fango wrote: No one has a superb chance to beat Inno in a bo7. Let alone beat Inno and Classic in bo7s within 2 days of eachother. Even if he had a 70% to beat Inno (which he doesn't), and 70% to beat Classic, that's less than 50% to beat both. Can it be done? Yes. Is it likely? Nope. Is Dark the only zerg on a level that could do it? Probably. But still, there's a reason that we almost never get dual finalists People just don't think in probabilities But yeah you are right ofc, even if Dark had the edge against Inno and Classic with 70%, the one scenario where he is in both finals would be the most likely scenario with 49%, but overall all otehr scenarios combined would still outweigh it making it "unlikely" (though tbf in that example it's basically 50-50 and thus fairly likely :D) In reality Dark is the slight underdog vs Inno though, so at max 50% so his overall chances to reach both are way below 50%. Stats already is in one final and he is the favorite vs sOs so his chances are above 50%. You disagree with him being a favorite apparently though, silly you | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 05 2017 09:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: People just don't think in probabilities But yeah you are right ofc, even if Dark had the edge against Inno and Classic with 70%, the one scenario where he is in both finals would be the most likely scenario with 49%, but overall all otehr scenarios combined would still outweigh it making it "unlikely" (though tbf in that example it's basically 50-50 and thus fairly likely :D) In reality Dark is the slight underdog vs Inno though, so at max 50% so his overall chances to reach both are way below 50%. Stats already is in one final and he is the favorite vs sOs so his chances are above 50%. You disagree with him being a favorite apparently though, silly you To be honest, I think Dark might be better for Inno than TY would be. As I've mentioned before, INnoVation has a tendency to get arrogant and complacent when he's facing an opponent he knows he is superior to (Soulkey, Maru, Life, Stats, etc). And then it bites him in the ass. Even in his last series against ByuN, he boasted about not having practiced and then nearly got reverse-swept. But when he respects his opponent, when he really decides to prepare and bring his A-game....well that's when we get the laughably onesided stomps that Inno is so famous for. It's not a coincidence that his most brutal beatdowns were in the finals. Obviously, I would prefer that Dark put up one hell of a fight against Inno and show us some amazing TvZ games that will go down in history. But if some seer told me that this series would be a complete stomp and I had to put money on who the stomper was, I wouldn't be betting on Dark. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
A single map could be about 45-55 or 40-60, something along those lines. So for the whole match around 30-40% for Dark. To get away from these boring probabilities though, yeah i hope we will get a sick match. Your point about Inno being arrogant here and there, yeah maybe but i feel that's kinda a narrative explanation even when Inno likes to imply it. Though i agree with the conclusion, if Inno is fully prepared he should win it. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Dark v Classic will likely be a train wreck stomp that can swing either way. Kinda like Classic v soO. Team mind games abound! | ||
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 05 2017 16:41 Sakat wrote: Remember when ByuL was the greates vs. mech Z that we've ever had and stomped all terrans on his way to the finals (of both starleagues) and then just kinda rolled over and died to Inno? He stomped Inno on his way to the SSL finals and then got rekt by him in the GSL final. ByuL is one of those underrated players than managed to dominate during times of serious imbalance | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 05 2017 08:00 Myrddrael wrote: I will quote it myself in this very thread when he does. So yeah.....Inno did not, in fact, just roll over and die. I guess Dark still has SSL. Best of luck to him there. | ||
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