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On April 09 2017 21:23 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:20 Fango wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2017 21:16 c0sm0naut wrote:On April 09 2017 21:15 Elentos wrote:
Ironic that after all the praise aLive got for his great multitasking and fast reactions throughout the tournament, what loses him the final game of the tournament is the slowest reaction ever. he had already used medivac boost. those units were going to catch the medivac no matter what Medivacs have enough vision that he could have seen that and turned around much faster. Medivacs still slower than stalkers though. He'd have had to be looking at it at that moment, and even then herO would have had to be on move command If he reacts perfectly on time, he most likely gets away, the stalker count wasn't that high and there was no blink. Could have even dropped out like one marine to buy an extra second.
the vod is up i recommend rewatching it
theres no way that medivac gets away. it seems like u are looking for something aLive could have done. he took a risk and assumed it was macro robotics cause its Proxima Station, tried to boost across to get in there before stalkers/obs in all mineral lines
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On April 09 2017 21:20 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:17 raff100 wrote:On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D I play both races,I hate Adepts ,but I admit that it's the only way in which Protoss can win vs Terran. Protoss race seems to rely 100% around adepts harass to keep things even with other races yeah i dont know about "the only way" there are plenty of ways to fuck a terran up man hero won pvts earlier in this very same tournament with 2 oracles into blink + robotics
Have you seen how PvT was like before Lib/mine nerfs?Protoss winrate was around <40%
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On April 09 2017 21:22 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:19 Fango wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 raff100 wrote:On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D I play both races,I hate Adepts ,but I admit that it's the only way in which Protoss can win vs Terran. Protoss race seems to rely 100% around adepts harass to keep things even with other races Can protoss not still win with heavy AoE? The problem is that you have to get there.
And the problem with terran is that you have to kill them before they get there.
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OK. I agree Adepts are super annoying in any matchups and combo with Phoenixes vs T is deadly... But at top level, not everyone is winning vs T with that strategy. If Adepts + Phoenixes are such a winning combo then Protoss players would play it every game and win every tournament. Why bother using another strategy then? The control is everything. Bad shade or phoenix movement is a game losing move. Look at herO as he is so good at that strategy but when he did wrong, he lost the game too (AKA Game 4).
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37024 Posts
On April 09 2017 21:15 Elentos wrote:
Ironic that after all the praise aLive got for his great multitasking and fast reactions throughout the tournament, what loses him the final game of the tournament is the slowest reaction ever.
Let's be honest here. aLive was probably exhausted as fuck... 5 games against Solar, and 6 games against herO... Terran is the most demanding race in terms of multitasking and reactions... I don't blame him for being too tired to maneuver his medivac in that final set.
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On April 09 2017 21:17 raff100 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D I play both races,I hate Adepts ,but I admit that it's the only way in which Protoss can win vs Terran. Protoss race seems to rely 100% around adepts harass to keep things even with other races
This is a big part of it and I don't think people should accept that LOTV is perfectly balanced / designed perfectly. In WOL or HOTS, it was readily accepted that the game was designed VERY well, that all of the races were balanced in a very good way, and one could harrass to gain a LEAD.
In LOTV, Protoss is so bad that they HAVE to play with adepts and do extreme damage to be even with the other races. Protoss isn't designed properly for LOTV. Their units are too expensive and do too little for their cost. With the nerf to Collo, they aren't a 300/200 unit worth of value anymore. Protoss was balanced around that unit being worth its cost, and it's not. On the opposite end of the spectrum for protoss, their gateway units were shit because one could proxy a 100 mineral pylon and be very aggressive. This isn't really possible anymore (excluding adepts, here, because adepts can do whatever they want) due to the nerf to warp ins.
I really don't think we should accept that Protoss is fine as a race. It shouldn't be balanced around the fact that you HAVE to do insane damage to workers to be competitive. Any worker kill should be a bonus to give you a lead, not a requirement to have a chance. Protoss needs to have adepts nerfed, other gateway units buffed to compensate, and their tier 3 needs to be worth investing in. Nerf warpgate even further if you have to. I want an army that feels strong, not gimmicky relying on shading everywhere and killing workers.
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On April 09 2017 21:24 raff100 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:20 c0sm0naut wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 raff100 wrote:On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D I play both races,I hate Adepts ,but I admit that it's the only way in which Protoss can win vs Terran. Protoss race seems to rely 100% around adepts harass to keep things even with other races yeah i dont know about "the only way" there are plenty of ways to fuck a terran up man hero won pvts earlier in this very same tournament with 2 oracles into blink + robotics Have you seen how PvT was like before Lib/mine nerfs?Protoss winrate was around <40%
jan 5th - 18th : http://aligulac.com/periods/180/
PvT 213–319 (40.04%)
Jan 19th -feb 1st: http://aligulac.com/periods/181/
PvT 265–361 (42.33%)
liberator is nerfed
feb 1st - feb 15th : http://aligulac.com/periods/182/
PvT 223–281 (44.25%)
feb 16-march 1st : http://aligulac.com/periods/183/
PvT 136–130 (51.13%)
march 7th mine nerf
yeah PvT was 40% until liberator nerfs, then cmae back up to 45-50% and blizzard was like fuck it lets just go for it
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On April 09 2017 21:23 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:20 Fango wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2017 21:16 c0sm0naut wrote:On April 09 2017 21:15 Elentos wrote:
Ironic that after all the praise aLive got for his great multitasking and fast reactions throughout the tournament, what loses him the final game of the tournament is the slowest reaction ever. he had already used medivac boost. those units were going to catch the medivac no matter what Medivacs have enough vision that he could have seen that and turned around much faster. Medivacs still slower than stalkers though. He'd have had to be looking at it at that moment, and even then herO would have had to be on move command If he reacts perfectly on time, he most likely gets away, the stalker count wasn't that high and there was no blink. Could have even dropped out like one marine to buy an extra second.
Nah no way, the only time he gets away is if herO is on move command and isn't looking
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They need to tone down adepts because this unit is OP as hell, but they need to buff something in the P arsenal or they would have no chance to win anything.
Imho the only possible buff would be about Colossus thermal lance
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On April 09 2017 21:27 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:23 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2017 21:20 Fango wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2017 21:16 c0sm0naut wrote:On April 09 2017 21:15 Elentos wrote:
Ironic that after all the praise aLive got for his great multitasking and fast reactions throughout the tournament, what loses him the final game of the tournament is the slowest reaction ever. he had already used medivac boost. those units were going to catch the medivac no matter what Medivacs have enough vision that he could have seen that and turned around much faster. Medivacs still slower than stalkers though. He'd have had to be looking at it at that moment, and even then herO would have had to be on move command If he reacts perfectly on time, he most likely gets away, the stalker count wasn't that high and there was no blink. Could have even dropped out like one marine to buy an extra second. Nah no way, the only time he gets away is if herO is on move command and isn't looking
It's 5 stalkers and 1 sentry. You're telling me that if aLive uses the medivac's superior vision range to get a head start, changes direction the right (towards terrain the ground units can't chase it through if herO wants to do his attack) and drops out one marine to soak some shots before the stalkers are in shooting range, there's no way the medivac gets away?
Bold.
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I wanted to bitch about always seeing 30+ adepts at a time and then I realized we've been regularly seeing 30+ marines / marauders for 7 years now.
Perhaps we should take a step back from the balance whine and consider that terrans have been getting away with MMM for most of the game's lifecycle.
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On April 09 2017 21:32 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:27 Fango wrote:On April 09 2017 21:23 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2017 21:20 Fango wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2017 21:16 c0sm0naut wrote:On April 09 2017 21:15 Elentos wrote:
Ironic that after all the praise aLive got for his great multitasking and fast reactions throughout the tournament, what loses him the final game of the tournament is the slowest reaction ever. he had already used medivac boost. those units were going to catch the medivac no matter what Medivacs have enough vision that he could have seen that and turned around much faster. Medivacs still slower than stalkers though. He'd have had to be looking at it at that moment, and even then herO would have had to be on move command If he reacts perfectly on time, he most likely gets away, the stalker count wasn't that high and there was no blink. Could have even dropped out like one marine to buy an extra second. Nah no way, the only time he gets away is if herO is on move command and isn't looking It's 5 stalkers and 1 sentry. You're telling me that if aLive uses the medivac's superior vision range to get a head start, changes direction the right (towards terrain the ground units can't chase it through if herO wants to do his attack) and drops out one marine to soak some shots before the stalkers are in shooting range, there's no way the medivac gets away? Bold.
i honestly think ur argument is so much bolder
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On April 09 2017 21:26 LHK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:17 raff100 wrote:On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D I play both races,I hate Adepts ,but I admit that it's the only way in which Protoss can win vs Terran. Protoss race seems to rely 100% around adepts harass to keep things even with other races This is a big part of it and I don't think people should accept that LOTV is perfectly balanced / designed perfectly. In WOL or HOTS, it was readily accepted that the game was designed VERY well, that all of the races were balanced in a very good way, and one could harrass to gain a LEAD. In LOTV, Protoss is so bad that they HAVE to play with adepts and do extreme damage to be even with the other races. Protoss isn't designed properly for LOTV. Their units are too expensive and do too little for their cost. With the nerf to Collo, they aren't a 300/200 unit worth of value anymore. Protoss was balanced around that unit being worth its cost, and it's not. On the opposite end of the spectrum for protoss, their gateway units were shit because one could proxy a 100 mineral pylon and be very aggressive. This isn't really possible anymore (excluding adepts, here, because adepts can do whatever they want) due to the nerf to warp ins. I really don't think we should accept that Protoss is fine as a race. It shouldn't be balanced around the fact that you HAVE to do insane damage to workers to be competitive. Any worker kill should be a bonus to give you a lead, not a requirement to have a chance. Protoss needs to have adepts nerfed, other gateway units buffed to compensate, and their tier 3 needs to be worth investing in. Nerf warpgate even further if you have to. I want an army that feels strong, not gimmicky relying on shading everywhere and killing workers.
That's it,however people prefer to whine about balance in order to get buffs to their own race and win some pointless ladder games.
LotV design should be the main focus of our speeches because it really sucks,no matter how perfectly balanced winrates would be.
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On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D
Worst end possible to a very close series, yes. A medivac running into a 4 gate to conclude the game is extremely anti-hype.
That latter half, nobody is saying it. Stop trying to spark a fire that isn;t there.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 09 2017 19:31 Lorning wrote:wow youre aLive
Only a little while aLive is good
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On April 09 2017 21:38 raff100 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 21:26 LHK wrote:On April 09 2017 21:17 raff100 wrote:On April 09 2017 21:14 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Read the comment and see clearly for biased opinions lol
"The worst end possible", "adept/phoenix/msc/warp prism/etc imba!". The salt is real, I can't even imagine how many times u got owned by the big book of protoss bull***t to be that whiny :D I play both races,I hate Adepts ,but I admit that it's the only way in which Protoss can win vs Terran. Protoss race seems to rely 100% around adepts harass to keep things even with other races This is a big part of it and I don't think people should accept that LOTV is perfectly balanced / designed perfectly. In WOL or HOTS, it was readily accepted that the game was designed VERY well, that all of the races were balanced in a very good way, and one could harrass to gain a LEAD. In LOTV, Protoss is so bad that they HAVE to play with adepts and do extreme damage to be even with the other races. Protoss isn't designed properly for LOTV. Their units are too expensive and do too little for their cost. With the nerf to Collo, they aren't a 300/200 unit worth of value anymore. Protoss was balanced around that unit being worth its cost, and it's not. On the opposite end of the spectrum for protoss, their gateway units were shit because one could proxy a 100 mineral pylon and be very aggressive. This isn't really possible anymore (excluding adepts, here, because adepts can do whatever they want) due to the nerf to warp ins. I really don't think we should accept that Protoss is fine as a race. It shouldn't be balanced around the fact that you HAVE to do insane damage to workers to be competitive. Any worker kill should be a bonus to give you a lead, not a requirement to have a chance. Protoss needs to have adepts nerfed, other gateway units buffed to compensate, and their tier 3 needs to be worth investing in. Nerf warpgate even further if you have to. I want an army that feels strong, not gimmicky relying on shading everywhere and killing workers. That's it,however people prefer to whine about balance in order to get buffs to their own race and win some pointless ladder games. LotV design should be the main focus of our speeches because it really sucks,no matter how perfectly balanced winrates would be.
And in the end this discussion always comes down to warpgate being a stupid mechanic...
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United States23455 Posts
Bummer but still wp by aLive through the tournament as a whole.
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On April 09 2017 22:14 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2017 19:31 Lorning wrote:On April 09 2017 19:28 Darkhorse wrote:
Yaaaaaaaaayyyy aLive! wow youre aLive Only a little while aLive is good
rip Darkhoarse.
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They should change adept , because the <40% winrate was due to the lack of innovative play, protoss played same as previous patch.
With this meta , if they reverse the nerf it would be near of 50% winrate
herO played well, he deserves it, but some move was ridiculous.
Example when he shaded into 5 WM 2 liberators and won easily the fight .
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On April 09 2017 21:33 DickMcFanny wrote:
I wanted to bitch about always seeing 30+ adepts at a time and then I realized we've been regularly seeing 30+ marines / marauders for 7 years now.
Perhaps we should take a step back from the balance whine and consider that terrans have been getting away with MMM for most of the game's lifecycle.
Exactly, when you can regularly beat Protoss armies that consist of tier 2 and 3 units with tier 1.5 (and 2) Terran units, and you say Protoss is OP, I don't know man but seems like you're the one who'd wrong
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EPT
