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On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:20 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:16 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
they would never admit they are only looking good now because the skill level went down even if they'd think that.
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think. let's all just agree to disagree then it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion. this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality" is a fact. This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for. Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea. I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now.
Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood.
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On October 30 2016 06:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:46 Phredxor wrote:
Wtf is this thread. I assume there were no good games since everyone is back to arguing about other shit. its an interesting convo ... with some interesting perspective and info if u r willing to dig through the needless ad hominems
Time spent arguing is, oddly enough, almost never wasted
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55566 Posts
On October 30 2016 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Alright now i know what i need to watch. Thanks people.
Back to your arguments!
Dark vs Stats game 1 was really good.
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On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:20 Musicus wrote:
[quote]
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think.
let's all just agree to disagree then it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion. this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality" is a fact. This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for. Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea. I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood.
the foreigners who retired weren't high level except Stephano, Naniwa
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Showtime vs Byun and Dark vs Stats would be my picks. Top play in these two. TY vs Elazer was entertaining in the 'I just witnessed a car crash' entertaining way.
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On October 30 2016 06:52 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Alright now i know what i need to watch. Thanks people.
Back to your arguments! Dark vs Stats game 1 was really good.
Meh. It might have been high lvl gameplay but it wasn't really entertaining at all imo
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New Zealand15076 Posts
On October 30 2016 06:52 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Alright now i know what i need to watch. Thanks people.
Back to your arguments! Dark vs Stats game 1 was really good.
Yeah honestly I'll probably watch all the (ex)KT boys anyway and watch Byun get stomped for the luls.
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On October 30 2016 06:53 Biscuittzz wrote:
Showtime vs Byun and Dark vs Stats would be my picks. Top play in these two. TY vs Elazer was entertaining in the 'I just witnessed a car crash' entertaining way.
What did you not like in Zest vs Neeb? Sick PvP imo.
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Elazer - TY was my favourite series. Zest vs Neeb game 1 and 3 were good too.
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On October 30 2016 06:49 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:46 Phredxor wrote:
Wtf is this thread. I assume there were no good games since everyone is back to arguing about other shit. TLO started some controversy by tweeting that the skill level hasn't gone down and foreigners just magically got better.
Well technically Thorin tweeted about foreigners winning Bo3 isn't anything new and isn't that impressive to which Smix replied that ByuN is the rank 1 player in the world and skill level has gone up to which Stuchiu replied that wasn't true and 2013 Innovation was better than 2016 Byun is. That's when TLO jumped in and said skill level has gone up but didn't specify that magic was the cause
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On October 30 2016 06:55 Charoisaur wrote:
Elazer - TY was my favourite series. Zest vs Neeb game 1 and 3 were good too.
Sometimes you meme just too hard man
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55566 Posts
On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:20 Musicus wrote:
[quote]
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think.
let's all just agree to disagree then it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion. this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality" is a fact. This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for. Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea. I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood.
It lacks new blood, but it's not as desperate yet. You have prospects for the future like Reynor or Clem. O'gaming is fostering the French scene very well.
Meanwhile, I don't think there's anyone doing well in the Korean scene who wasn't already a progamer after the KeSPA switch was completed.
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On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:20 Musicus wrote:
[quote]
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think.
let's all just agree to disagree then it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion. this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality" is a fact. This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for. Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea. I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood.
I'm not denying your point that both scenes need new blood, they both do. What I'm saying is that the game suffered from the loss of the Korean players more than from the aforementioned foreigners.
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On October 30 2016 06:55 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:53 Biscuittzz wrote:
Showtime vs Byun and Dark vs Stats would be my picks. Top play in these two. TY vs Elazer was entertaining in the 'I just witnessed a car crash' entertaining way. What did you not like in Zest vs Neeb? Sick PvP imo.
Actually an oversight sorry. That was also a sick series yep. Especially game 3.
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On October 30 2016 06:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:21 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion.
this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality"
is a fact.
This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for. Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea. I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood. It lacks new blood, but it's not as desperate yet. You have prospects for the future like Reynor or Clem. O'gaming is fostering the French scene very well. Meanwhile, I don't think there's anyone doing well in the Korean scene who wasn't already a progamer after the KeSPA switch was completed.
Even Reynor has been playing for 4 years or so already. They are super young sure, but I think we can also find 2 players in korea who have started playing and joined a team during the last 4 years.
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On October 30 2016 06:53 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:21 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion.
this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality"
is a fact.
This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for. Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea. I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood. the foreigners who retired weren't high level except Stephano, Naniwa
Lucifron, Vortix,QXC, HuK, Grubby, Hasuobs, Lilbow, Firecake
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55566 Posts
On October 30 2016 06:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:52 Elentos wrote:On October 30 2016 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Alright now i know what i need to watch. Thanks people.
Back to your arguments! Dark vs Stats game 1 was really good. Meh. It might have been high lvl gameplay but it wasn't really entertaining at all imo
Depends on what entertains you. In many Starcraft games I find great entertainment in watching someone trying to crack a seemingly unbreakable wall for a prolonged amount of time, whether they succeed or fail.
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France12907 Posts
On October 30 2016 06:55 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:49 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:46 Phredxor wrote:
Wtf is this thread. I assume there were no good games since everyone is back to arguing about other shit. TLO started some controversy by tweeting that the skill level hasn't gone down and foreigners just magically got better. Well technically Thorin tweeted about foreigners winning Bo3 isn't anything new and isn't that impressive to which Smix replied that ByuN is the rank 1 player in the world and skill level has gone up to which Stuchiu replied that wasn't true and 2013 Innovation was better than 2016 Byun is. That's when TLO jumped in and said skill level has gone up but didn't specify that magic was the cause
2013 INno isn't better than 2016 ByuN since otherwise 2016 INno would crush ByuN, it's not like he dropped in skill, he just couldn't keep up x).
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On October 30 2016 06:59 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:53 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:
[quote]
This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for.
Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea.
I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood. the foreigners who retired weren't high level except Stephano, Naniwa Lucifron, Vortix,QXC, HuK, Grubby, Hasuobs, Lilbow, Firecake
When he says high-level I think he means proper Top-tier, as in players who went toe-to-toe with Koreans back in the day.
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On October 30 2016 06:59 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:53 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:51 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:50 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:47 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:44 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:39 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:35 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:29 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 06:27 Musicus wrote:
[quote]
This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for.
Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea.
I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want. there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch. Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc... We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players. Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015. when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now. Well Taeja was also not the best Korean whe he stopped and it doesn't even matter. I am just saying that just as many foreigners stopped playing sc2 as koreans and that they also lack new blood. the foreigners who retired weren't high level except Stephano, Naniwa Lucifron, Vortix,QXC, HuK, Grubby, Hasuobs, Lilbow, Firecake
Lucifron, Vortix, Huk maybe.
qxc , hasu, Lilbow and firecake were never anywhere near the top of the world.
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EPT
