On October 30 2016 06:33 Biscuittzz wrote: Good to see people making up stuff again, please point out where I said he wasn't a pro?
What I said was that he is nowhere near being a Top-tier foreigner, contrary to what people on here would have you believe. I've looked through his 2016 results and I would conclude by being bold and saying that for all the talk we hear about him he is quite overrated.
No you said
To be honest I'd say there opinion on analysis is equal seeing as they both do the same thing, which is spectate games.
What I said that TLO himself doesn't really have much to say about top-tier gameplay as he isn't involved in it himself.
You didn't say he was overrated, you said he wasn't even involved in high level play.
I only said he was overrated in the post you just quoted, not the one before that.
well senator i'd just like to know what you knew and when you knew it.
On October 30 2016 05:59 Biscuittzz wrote: [quote]
And what part of my post said that? 2/10
What I said that TLO himself doesn't really have much to say about top-tier gameplay as he isn't involved in it himself.
But he still does know more about whether the game has become harder than WoL and HotS than Stuchiu or anybody in this thread. He also knows better if players have gotten better or worse (since he actually plays against them).
Also if Dark, Zest and TY agreed with TLO would you believe him then?
Edit: He will ask them btw.
Yea because geting players to admit that they're worse is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. When this year has TLO played against Koreans? I know he's played a fair few foreigners. I still watch his series vs MVP when he said that he could win. Fine line between optimism and delusion.
It's about the Korean scene in general, not just them. Since you don't believe TLO, since he doesn not compete against Koreans, well TY, Dark and Zest do.
they would never admit they are only looking good now because the skill level went down even if they'd think that.
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think.
let's all just agree to disagree then
I mean, he has point there though, I wouldn't expect a Korean to necessarily honestly answer me if I asked him if all his friends suck now or the game is just too hard. That said, repeatedly in community feedbacks, DK has said Koreans told him the game was too hard now (which nothing really was done about).
I just don't think it's so clear cut. A lot of people improved, a bunch got worse, I'm sure there are some where nothing's changed. But because the mid and low levels of the Korean scene are pretty much dissolving recently, I think long term it's going down at least for Korea.
The problem with this "korean say it's too hard" is that it never was defined what that actually means. Hard in what way? Mechanically? Some things being too impactful (for example worker harass) so it's too hard to be consistent, or whatever else you can come up with. I don't think it is actually clear what the koreans mean at this point tbh. It could mean a lot of things tbh.
lalush spoke about it, they say hard because it's more micro heavy where it's harder to be constant in that area as opposed to being macro heavy
Yeah so basically it's about the game being too unforgiving in that area. Cost effectiveness beign the most important part, etc
too many spells mostly, i would gladly get ride of half of them easily
On October 30 2016 06:33 Biscuittzz wrote: Good to see people making up stuff again, please point out where I said he wasn't a pro?
What I said was that he is nowhere near being a Top-tier foreigner, contrary to what people on here would have you believe. I've looked through his 2016 results and I would conclude by being bold and saying that for all the talk we hear about him he is quite overrated.
No you said
To be honest I'd say there opinion on analysis is equal seeing as they both do the same thing, which is spectate games.
What I said that TLO himself doesn't really have much to say about top-tier gameplay as he isn't involved in it himself.
You didn't say he was overrated, you said he wasn't even involved in high level play.
I only said he was overrated in the post you just quoted, not the one before that.
You called him a "mid-tier GM". So yeah, you said he's not a pro.
Adding 2+2 and getting 5 much? The two things aren't mutually exclusive. He is a mid-tier GM while also being a pro at the same time. Never said he wasn't.
On October 30 2016 06:13 Biscuittzz wrote: [quote]
Yea because geting players to admit that they're worse is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. When this year has TLO played against Koreans? I know he's played a fair few foreigners. I still watch his series vs MVP when he said that he could win. Fine line between optimism and delusion.
It's about the Korean scene in general, not just them. Since you don't believe TLO, since he doesn not compete against Koreans, well TY, Dark and Zest do.
they would never admit they are only looking good now because the skill level went down even if they'd think that.
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think.
let's all just agree to disagree then
it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion. this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality" is a fact.
This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for.
Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea.
I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want.
there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch.
Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc...
We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players.
Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional
Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015.
when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore
On October 30 2016 06:33 Biscuittzz wrote: Good to see people making up stuff again, please point out where I said he wasn't a pro?
What I said was that he is nowhere near being a Top-tier foreigner, contrary to what people on here would have you believe. I've looked through his 2016 results and I would conclude by being bold and saying that for all the talk we hear about him he is quite overrated.
No you said
To be honest I'd say there opinion on analysis is equal seeing as they both do the same thing, which is spectate games.
What I said that TLO himself doesn't really have much to say about top-tier gameplay as he isn't involved in it himself.
You didn't say he was overrated, you said he wasn't even involved in high level play.
I only said he was overrated in the post you just quoted, not the one before that.
well senator i'd just like to know what you knew and when you knew it.
On October 30 2016 06:46 Phredxor wrote: Wtf is this thread. I assume there were no good games since everyone is back to arguing about other shit.
Well I just think it's a shame that as soon as some foreigenrs perform, Koreans are suddenly worse than ever.
When ByuN dominates GSL, he is the best Terran ever.
When ByuN loses to Showtime, Koreans overall suck.
But to answer your question, I think Neeb vs Zest was awesome, Showtime played exceptionally well today and Dark vs Stats was also a very good series. Only Elazer vs TY was a flop.
On October 30 2016 06:14 Musicus wrote: [quote] It's about the Korean scene in general, not just them. Since you don't believe TLO, since he doesn not compete against Koreans, well TY, Dark and Zest do.
they would never admit they are only looking good now because the skill level went down even if they'd think that.
Okay, so if they were to say something that would go against you opinion it would obviously be a lie. Awesome, having a discussion here makes no sense I think.
let's all just agree to disagree then
it's opinions vs facts. what people think is an opinion. this "30 or so korean pros retiring with no new blood coming in and many players losing motivation due to lack of tournaments to play. also korean teams closing being a big hit to their mentality" is a fact.
This is not a fact, since even after GSL, SSL and SPL ended, they still had WESG, KeSPA Cup, HSC, IEM Korea and some even BlizzCon to prepare for.
Also while I agree with the lack of new players being a problem, that's a global problem and does not only affect Korea.
I also absolutely think Korea needs more tournaments spread out over the year, but especially most recently they had a ton to play in and now they are even free to play in as many online cups as they want.
there have been pretty reliable reports that koreans are a lot less motivated this year and are playing a lot of LoL and Overwatch.
Some are and they are switching to other games, some are not and they are playing in BlizzCon, WESG, Olimoleauge, IEM, HSC, KungFu Cup etc...
We had just as many foreigners switching to other games as Heroes, Dota 2 or Overwatch (grubby, lilbow, Hasu, Babyknight...). The list is most likely longer than the one for Korean players.
Because losing Grubby is equatable to losing Taeja? Delusional
Taeja stopped playing, because he wanted to stop playing plus his hands were hurting? He has been thinking about stopping for a long time. Lilbow was the best foreigner of 2015, so for the foreign scene that was probably a bigger loss than Taeja for the koren scene, since he was not the best Korean of 2015.
when Lilbow retired he wasn't a top player anymore
This. Just because Lilbow went to Blizzcon doesn't mean he was the best foreigner of 2015.........luckiest more like it. I've said before many times that the WCS points system isn't the best way to rank players, evidenced by some players who should be at Blizzcon but aren't right now.
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