EPT[IEM XI] Shanghai Grand Finals - Page 40
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:16 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Apollo is the IEM boss now :o I feel like this should be talked about more | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:21 Cricketer12 wrote: so who else is excited for 40 dank minutes of G Fuel ads? I got my kush ready | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:18 Hider wrote: Sc2 pro games are very rarely lost because of choking. It's not like a game like Counter Strike where your mental stale and and confidence are extremely important to make sure you are gonna hit instant flick shots. No in Sc2, your EAPM and mouseprecision is very constant regardless of circumstances. The only thing that can really change is if you decide to go for some stupid builds/react in stupid ways that you usually wouldn't do. But when calling out someone for choking must be able to specify where the choking can be seen. Like which mistake/error was very unusual for the player? Otherwise it's just lazy "analysis" (read: not analysis. Just explantion from people who cannot actually analyze games). Sure calling it "choking" anytime someone loses somewhat unexpectedly is lazy. But in this case it was quite clear, when even the opponent can tell that the play wasn't up to standard because of weird mistakes nerv issues seem quite likely. Your statement about sc2 in comparison to csgo make also no sense | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:18 Hider wrote: Sc2 pro games are very rarely lost because of choking. It's not like a game like Counter Strike where your mental stale and and confidence are extremely important to make sure you are gonna hit instant flick shots. In Sc2, your EAPM and mouseprecision is very constant regardless of circumstances. The only thing that can really change is if you decide to go for some stupid builds/react in stupid ways that you usually wouldn't do. But when calling out someone for choking must be able to specify where the choking can be seen. Like which mistake/error was very unusual for the player? Otherwise it's just lazy "analysis" (read: not analysis. Just explantion from people who cannot actually analyze games). making many unusual mistakes the player normally doesn't do is definitely choking. I'm not sure how good neebs pvt is in general but a player of his calibre should be able to handle liberator/wm harassment better. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:20 Nerchio wrote: If anything choking is more real in SC2 than CS:GO because there you use muscle memory to do flickshots that you are talking about and if you play a little bit slower or your precision is off then you're just screwed in SC2. Also you play 30 rounds in CS:GO and you have a lot of free time which doesn't really happen in sc2 I'm just assuming Hider is trolling with that post. No way he really believes that. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:21 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like this should be talked about more end of an era? | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:22 blade55555 wrote: I'm just assuming Hider is trolling with that post. No way he really believes that. We need Wolf to weigh in on this. He's the master of recognizing the symptoms | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
No carmac piggyback ride for uTthermal  also no nerdballer shoes | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
I remember Apollo coaching TB back in the day | ||
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Sonics12
14 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:18 Shellshock wrote: I mean haven't we been saying for years to be good just be as good as the best player? Can't believe more people don't just do that. Rofl he made it sound so simple. uThermal was like "Yeah I just copied TY, literally build for build." Of course he added his own flavor but it was just funny he said that so off handedly. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:33 Cricketer12 wrote: fucking insane timing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQaXrIR6Xog beautiful, just beautiful | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:33 Cricketer12 wrote: fucking insane timing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQaXrIR6Xog Magnificent. I don't think it's a matter of timing though. This video would have been relevant basically every week since the release of LotV  . | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9431 Posts
Sure calling it "choking" anytime someone loses somewhat unexpectedly is lazy. But in this case it was quite clear, when even the opponent can tell that the play wasn't up to standard because of weird mistakes nerv issues seem quite likely. Then point out all of the errors that came as a result of choking (and not as a result of being outplayed). Whenever you are incapable of doing that, but still claim that you know the reason the player your lost, it indicates ignorance. Your statement about sc2 in comparison to csgo make also no sense Fantastic argumentation. In CS:GO you cannot really explain missed aims (that you usually would hit otherwise) by anything else than choking. On the other hand, choking is a pointless term in Sc2 analysis as you specifically can point to the actual errors in the game. You should only use the term choking whenever you see errors being made that would never happen online. But going with the default explanation of "choking" to explain everytime a player isn't winning a final is pretty dumb in my opinion. From my experience. People who actually can analyze games would never ever go into a forum and say "player x lost cus he choked". No they would say "Player x made this mistake when he should have done Y instead of Z because he saw...." etc. And if you still don't think the comparison makes sense, do you then imply that your EAPM drops off by 30% when you play offline? Or what other part of the mechanical side of Starcraft deterioates significantly. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:43 Hider wrote: Then point out the errors. Whenever you are incapable of doing that, but still claim that you know the reason the player your lost, it indicates ignorance. Fantastic argumentation. People have pointed out the errors during the game (both in this thread and the commentators as well), uthermal pointed it out after the game. What else do you need? About csgo and sc2: Any real time video game you can play is about muscle memory at the highest lvl. Nerve issues influencing your performance doesn't seem to be a crazy concept tbh. You are stating this isn't the case in sc2, you have to make the arguments. Quod gratis asseritur gratis negatur edit: As i already said before i agree that "choking" as an end all be all explanation is lazy. Pointing out what mistakes were unusual is the way to go for sure, these errors can still be the effect of choking though aka nerve issues and it's legitimate to point that out. Nerve issues also manifest in a lot of ways. Being supply blocked more often, making bad decisions, having worse micro, etc. That's all possible effects of "choking". You implying that nerve issues don't affect sc2 is simply weird | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:33 Cricketer12 wrote: fucking insane timing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQaXrIR6Xog That's amazing. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9431 Posts
On July 31 2016 12:21 Charoisaur wrote: making many unusual mistakes the player normally doesn't do is definitely choking. I'm not sure how good neebs pvt is in general but a player of his calibre should be able to handle liberator/wm harassment better. If Neeb (occationally) losses in a similar fashion on the ladder or in an offline cup to a skilled opponent, would it then also be choking? As I see it, unless you have the sample size/data to know that he would never lose in a similar way under different circumstances, then you cannot conclude that he was choking. Rather, what you could say is that he problems dealing with early game harass. And the next question would be why. E.g was it a unit-control problem? Was it a build-order problem? In my opinion that's real analysis and that's the type of analysis I want to see and hear from people who understand the game at a high level. | ||
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