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On May 25 2016 03:49 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i tried a strategy that i thought in good faith would work, it was awful so i'm sorry, i LOST A MAP because of it. isn't that enough? the last thing i want when playing this is additional pressure like this or some sort of moral police. i won games in the past on maps like steppes of war and waystation close positions including online tournaments as well using drone pulls. yes i could have played more custom games on this map before going for this strategy and obviously scrapped it since it did not turn out to be a powerful build but please just let the players play in good faith trying to win, i already paid my penalty with a MINUS POINT mapscore. i don't want to have to compete while feeling anxious about higher ups or administrators calling disrespect in the MIDDLE of the series. sorry for my bad play and showing ONE terrible cheese in a bunch of attempted macro games.
seriously ruined my evening to even think that i need to consider this. maybe put up disclaimers next time or maybe invite higher lever players that you can maybe expect more from? sorry, just really infuriating to get messaged in the middle of a tournament, i'm playing so much worse now and can't get this type of anger out of my system very quickly. really, really sad day for me in starcraft honestly.
and now i lost, you will not have to see similar bad builds again. i will try to do better next time, if there is an appropriate occasion.
You're taking it a little too personally . I think most everyone knows the quality of your character, you shouldn't be worrying about that. If people are messaging you during the tournament about it that's clearly inappropriate.
I like you and wasn't trying to offend you, but my opinion still stands about actually testing the map properly in some form. It would suck really bad to be the guy who made the map and have people automatically discount your map and have people not try to play some form of a real game on it. I'm not saying you're an asshole or something.
If you actually thought drone rushing was like a legitimate strategy that was likely to win you the game, then my bad. But... I mean.. that doesn't seem likely. It seems more like a hail mary.
I wasn't even targetting you, really. I thought uthermals hellbats into seeing a couple roaches - instant gg was way worse.
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On May 25 2016 03:49 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i tried a strategy that i thought in good faith would work, it was awful so i'm sorry, i LOST A MAP because of it. isn't that enough? the last thing i want when playing this is additional pressure like this or some sort of moral police. i won games in the past on maps like steppes of war and waystation close positions including online tournaments as well using drone pulls. yes i could have played more custom games on this map before going for this strategy and obviously scrapped it since it did not turn out to be a powerful build but please just let the players play in good faith trying to win, i already paid my penalty with a MINUS POINT mapscore. i don't want to have to compete while feeling anxious about higher ups or administrators calling disrespect in the MIDDLE of the series. sorry for my bad play and showing ONE terrible cheese in a bunch of attempted macro games.
seriously ruined my evening to even think that i need to consider this. maybe put up disclaimers next time or maybe invite higher lever players that you can maybe expect more from? sorry, just really infuriating to get messaged in the middle of a tournament, i'm playing so much worse now and can't get this type of anger out of my system very quickly. really, really sad day for me in starcraft honestly.
and now i lost, you will not have to see similar bad builds again. i will try to do better next time, if there is an appropriate occasion.
People can be dicks and any pro player in SC2 experienced this one way or another. I got messages yesterday and forum posts that i'm abuser and won only because of the map abuse and would lose on normal maps.
Don't let idiots get to you, try to play for yourself, not for others and always remember that people that post stuff like this will never be even close as good as you are, all they can do is talk trash.
EDIT: not to mention people on forums/reddit always know better than progamers /s
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On May 25 2016 04:09 Beastyqt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 03:49 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i tried a strategy that i thought in good faith would work, it was awful so i'm sorry, i LOST A MAP because of it. isn't that enough? the last thing i want when playing this is additional pressure like this or some sort of moral police. i won games in the past on maps like steppes of war and waystation close positions including online tournaments as well using drone pulls. yes i could have played more custom games on this map before going for this strategy and obviously scrapped it since it did not turn out to be a powerful build but please just let the players play in good faith trying to win, i already paid my penalty with a MINUS POINT mapscore. i don't want to have to compete while feeling anxious about higher ups or administrators calling disrespect in the MIDDLE of the series. sorry for my bad play and showing ONE terrible cheese in a bunch of attempted macro games.
seriously ruined my evening to even think that i need to consider this. maybe put up disclaimers next time or maybe invite higher lever players that you can maybe expect more from? sorry, just really infuriating to get messaged in the middle of a tournament, i'm playing so much worse now and can't get this type of anger out of my system very quickly. really, really sad day for me in starcraft honestly.
and now i lost, you will not have to see similar bad builds again. i will try to do better next time, if there is an appropriate occasion. People can be dicks and any pro player in SC2 experienced this one way or another. I got messages yesterday and forum posts that i'm abuser and won only because of the map abuse and would lose on normal maps. Don't let idiots get to you, try to play for yourself, not for others and always remember that people that post stuff like this will never be even close as good as you are, all they can do is talk trash.
Being called a "map abuser" can probably be considered the highest form of praise when participating in a map test tournament.
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Norway839 Posts
i didn't get messaged by strangers i was indirectly notified through the casters that what happened was somewhat sketchy and then i made the mistake of opening this thread reading about that the map should be replayed or whatever, just went on full tilt from there. i will inform all casters i know to not to make comments on the flow of a series in the future and this should be taken note of - please let players do their thing and ask politely about their intentions or reasons for questionable play some time AFTER the conclusion of a series, some times players can play experimental builds and it's not necessarily a naniwa drone pull level of disrespect just because it looks silly ... sigh :'(
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Well you're one of my favorite players and e-sports people in general. It's probably healthier to remain aloof from what is being posted by people who aren't directly involved in the tournaments. I don't like feeling like I offended you when that's not my intention, because I also want to be able to post my thoughts about the tournament when stuff like this happens. Remember that the random people in this thread have a certain level of distance from the actual events. They should be able to use the space to discuss the events without worrying that their opinions are being taken as a personal attack. I know that that's difficult, though (really I do know, I've been publicly scrutinized before, it's annoying).
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Norway839 Posts
yes it's never my intention to witch hunt anyone for speaking their mind especially when discussing games because that's part of what's good about watching esports, i probably should just message the TO's/casters directly about mid-series issues instead of ranting here so apologies for that... GL to everyone involved and thx for the opportunity & fresh maps
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On May 25 2016 04:15 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i didn't get messaged by strangers i was indirectly notified through the casters that what happened was somewhat sketchy
I didn't watch the game in question, but that's not okay. From what I gather there was a worker rush and it didn't work? That's all that happened, right?
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On May 25 2016 03:26 Antares777 wrote:
I wasn't expecting to see so many different glitches and problems on the maps. Caldeum Plateau has a blocked geyser and floating corpses, Frozen Zone had doodads without proper pathing and got those two units got stuck on it, etc.
Test yo maps people.
Agreed, this is really basic stuff that you should learn when you first start mapping. It's not the end of the world, as the maps got there on their overall merit and some bugs shouldn't prevent that, but it is puzzling to see people spend countless hours on aesthetics but then not be able to spend the very short amount of time it takes to bugproof everything. Checking minerals, geysers, unbuildable plates, pathing, etc. everything can literally be done in 20 or 30 min.
My map hasn't been played yet so inevitably after I make this post it will have some bug :-P
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On May 25 2016 04:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 04:09 Beastyqt wrote:On May 25 2016 03:49 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i tried a strategy that i thought in good faith would work, it was awful so i'm sorry, i LOST A MAP because of it. isn't that enough? the last thing i want when playing this is additional pressure like this or some sort of moral police. i won games in the past on maps like steppes of war and waystation close positions including online tournaments as well using drone pulls. yes i could have played more custom games on this map before going for this strategy and obviously scrapped it since it did not turn out to be a powerful build but please just let the players play in good faith trying to win, i already paid my penalty with a MINUS POINT mapscore. i don't want to have to compete while feeling anxious about higher ups or administrators calling disrespect in the MIDDLE of the series. sorry for my bad play and showing ONE terrible cheese in a bunch of attempted macro games.
seriously ruined my evening to even think that i need to consider this. maybe put up disclaimers next time or maybe invite higher lever players that you can maybe expect more from? sorry, just really infuriating to get messaged in the middle of a tournament, i'm playing so much worse now and can't get this type of anger out of my system very quickly. really, really sad day for me in starcraft honestly.
and now i lost, you will not have to see similar bad builds again. i will try to do better next time, if there is an appropriate occasion. People can be dicks and any pro player in SC2 experienced this one way or another. I got messages yesterday and forum posts that i'm abuser and won only because of the map abuse and would lose on normal maps. Don't let idiots get to you, try to play for yourself, not for others and always remember that people that post stuff like this will never be even close as good as you are, all they can do is talk trash. Being called a "map abuser" can probably be considered the highest form of praise when participating in a map test tournament.
Not if people say "the only" reason he's winning is abusing maps. I get your point though.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 25 2016 04:25 Fatam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 03:26 Antares777 wrote:
I wasn't expecting to see so many different glitches and problems on the maps. Caldeum Plateau has a blocked geyser and floating corpses, Frozen Zone had doodads without proper pathing and got those two units got stuck on it, etc.
Test yo maps people. Agreed, this is really basic stuff that you should learn when you first start mapping. It's not the end of the world, as the maps got there on their overall merit and some bugs shouldn't prevent that, but it is puzzling to see people spend countless hours on aesthetics but then not be able to spend the very short amount of time it takes to bugproof everything. Checking minerals, geysers, unbuildable plates, pathing, etc. everything can literally be done in 20 or 30 min. My map hasn't been played yet so inevitably after I make this post it will have some bug :-P
With the volume of maps created by some of these people eventually mistakes happen. Stuff like this helps get the flaws identified. Although it would be great if we had systems in place to ensure this doesn't happen in future. Food for thought.
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United States97277 Posts
I'm with you Snute. It's a build that has straight up won games in the past and the rush distance was so small I even posted in here that maybe the drone rush could be making a come back. I don't have any issue with what you did and think the strategy was perfectly reasonable to attempt in a test tournament.
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On May 25 2016 04:15 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i didn't get messaged by strangers i was indirectly notified through the casters that what happened was somewhat sketchy and then i made the mistake of opening this thread reading about that the map should be replayed or whatever, just went on full tilt from there. i will inform all casters i know to not to make comments on the flow of a series in the future and this should be taken note of - please let players do their thing and ask politely about their intentions or reasons for questionable play some time AFTER the conclusion of a series, some times players can play experimental builds and it's not necessarily a naniwa drone pull level of disrespect just because it looks silly ... sigh :'(
Snute I was watching stream during that game and casters were actually pretty reasonable about your strat, they even mentioned previous incident with worker rush from another progamer that was a big thing on reddit for like 5 minutes.
But they mentioned that your attempt was nothing like that, you actually tried it as legit strat.
Remark from Rifkin about having "talk" with players was IMO unneccesary but not ill intended. He was probably frustrated that uThermal game earlier GGd out of game after seeing 1 roach and then came drone rush.
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I think any in-game strategy used in a genuine attempt to win the game is always fine. Worker rush on a crazy short rush distance map seems worth an attempt at least.
@ plexa maybe next TLMC once the finalists are already determined, you guys could get a seasoned mapmaker or two to scan the maps for obvious bugs like these. Since the judging would have already happened it means you shouldn't have to worry about whether or not they submitted something.
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Pretty pathetic to be honest, in my opinion some well rounded build order with drone pull could be a viable way to play on that map. Blaming someone for playing 1 map in a series like this is just sad, especially since if you play standard all games people are going to cry that you didn't try anything new.
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which map did he drone rush on?
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United States97277 Posts
On May 25 2016 08:11 -NegativeZero- wrote:
which map did he drone rush on?
Dasan Station
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Nice try snute and drone pull could totally be legit on such a map. I want to see map abuse in a bo9 on new maps 
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I'm not sure if I recall correctly, but didn't Snute win like 4 games in his BO69 against Bunny with drone rushes? Of course that could work.
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EPT
