EPT[WCS] IEM Katowice - Day 2 - Page 64
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Elentos
55585 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:46 HellHound wrote: What violet actually needed was infestors Pushing through chokes is fun vs infestor rav I don't get why you'd ever skip infestors if you're going roach/ravager/ultra ._. | ||
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jubil
United States2602 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16124 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:36 Tenks wrote: After watching games like this from MLord I honestly don't know how people can support removing tankivac Easy. See that last push? The Tanks never got lifted off, they were just positioned well and all of the micromanagement came from the Bio. And it was exciting. Tankivacs aren't needed in this game, they only serve to excuse the stupidity that are Ravagers current power level. Eliminate Tankivacs and you HAVE to tone back Ravagers. If you tone back Ravagers you HAVE to tone back Liberators. The LoTV units are too strong for all 3 races right now, but they all serve to balance each other out. Nerfing one forces you to rebalance the others. When the dust clears, the game will be better off. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 Soularion wrote: are there any terrans right now that are 100% comfortable fighting ultras lategame? I feel like TaeJa's gonna do that in GSL Ro16 ByuN's ghost play is sick. It seems pretty map dependent though. | ||
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CheddarToss
534 Posts
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Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 Vindicare605 wrote: Easy. See that last push? The Tanks never got lifted off, they were just positioned well and all of the micromanagement came from the Bio. And it was exciting. Tankivacs aren't needed in this game, they only serve to excuse the stupidity that are Ravagers current power level. Eliminate Tankivacs and you HAVE to tone back Ravagers. If you tone back Ravagers you HAVE to tone back Liberators. The LoTV units are too strong for all 3 races right now, but they all serve to balance each other out. Nerfing one forces you to rebalance the others. When the dust clears, the game will be better off. I'm just worried that there's gonna be a three month gap before each 'toning back'. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 Soularion wrote: are there any terrans right now that are 100% comfortable fighting ultras lategame? I feel like TaeJa's gonna do that in GSL Ro16 GuMiho does alright with his mass liberators | ||
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sharkie
Austria18679 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 Vindicare605 wrote: Easy. See that last push? The Tanks never got lifted off, they were just positioned well and all of the micromanagement came from the Bio. And it was exciting. Tankivacs aren't needed in this game, they only serve to excuse the stupidity that are Ravagers current power level. Eliminate Tankivacs and you HAVE to tone back Ravagers. If you tone back Ravagers you HAVE to tone back Liberators. The LoTV units are too strong for all 3 races right now, but they all serve to balance each other out. Nerfing one forces you to rebalance the others. When the dust clears, the game will be better off. A third of the tanks were lifted for marinelord to get into this position though. Without tankivacs Marinelord needs more time to push -> violet has ultralisk armor -> gg | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 Tenks wrote: I didn't feel like Nate was balance whining? He was just stating a fact. Marine/Tank is obsolete once plated ultras are out and if MLord allowed Violet to get a few plated ultras out he didn't have the infrastructure ready to handle it. There were like 3 ultras and his response was you need to kill 2 bases to even stand a chance. That's slightly over the top | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:48 Inflicted wrote: GuMiho does alright with his mass liberators I like his speed banshee liberator style. | ||
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Elentos
55585 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 royalroadweed wrote: ByuN's ghost play is sick. It seems pretty map dependent though. It's much more convenient to kill the Zerg pre-hive, but there's some Terrans who're just fine vs ultras, too. And on Dusk Towers you can generally beat Zerg late game pretty well. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:49 chipmonklord17 wrote: There were like 3 ultras and his response was you need to kill 2 bases to even stand a chance. That's slightly over the top Violet also had like no gas. The situation wasn't quite as dire as Nate was making it out to be but MLord had no idea if Violet had 300 gas or 2k gas in the bank. But its also Nate's job to try and create some excitement and tension. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:48 Soularion wrote: I'm just worried that there's gonna be a three month gap before each 'toning back'. march 15 we decided to remove flying tanks july 28 we decided to remove ravagers bile september 12 we decided to nerf adept damage by 12 buff tank damage by 40 increase it's range by 4 so it can deal with tempests with it's new AA attack and now it costs 2 supply to make mech viable Something like this? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16124 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:48 sharkie wrote: A third of the tanks were lifted for marinelord to get into this position though. Without tankivacs Marinelord needs more time to push -> violet has ultralisk armor -> gg Don't misunderstand me. Ravagers are just as stupid as Tankivacs are right now, but Tankivacs are more urgently in need of a nerf because of the mess they have made of TvT. The only reason Terran NEEDS Tankivacs in TvZ is because of Ravagers. If Tankivacs get removed Ravagers are eventually going to HAVE to be nerfed. Tankivacs aren't the only problem I have with LoTV right now, they are just the first of the dominoes that have to fall in my opinion. | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:47 Elentos wrote: I don't get why you'd ever skip infestors if you're going roach/ravager/ultra ._. Yeah, going for ultras right away proved to be a mistake. But Violet probably had an attack in mind with chitinous and no festors. It would be gg but then all those drones died and MLorD moved out. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:49 Elentos wrote: It's much more convenient to kill the Zerg pre-hive, but there's some Terrans who're just fine vs ultras, too. And on Dusk Towers you can generally beat Zerg late game pretty well. That's kind of like my expirience of zvp You can play late game but it's so much easier to just kill them off with drop bullshit | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:51 Tenks wrote: Violet also had like no gas. The situation wasn't quite as dire as Nate was making it out to be but MLord had no idea if Violet had 300 gas or 2k gas in the bank. But its also Nate's job to try and create some excitement and tension. I think it's just sort of a case where a caster starts with one storyline but then doesn't realize it's the other one. It would have been hype if it had been "violet is almost out of gas, he needs to get these three ultras out and get the plating on them before the Terran wins! Can marinelord break him?!" | ||
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Elentos
55585 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 04 2016 04:51 Vindicare605 wrote: Don't misunderstand me. Ravagers are just as stupid as Tankivacs are right now, but Tankivacs are more urgently in need of a nerf because of the mess they have made of TvT. The only reason Terran NEEDS Tankivacs in TvZ is because of Ravagers. If Tankivacs get removed Ravagers are eventually going to HAVE to be nerfed. Tankivacs aren't the only problem I have with LoTV right now, they are just the first of the dominoes that have to fall in my opinion. It works the other way too. If Ravagers are nerfed due to what they do in ZvP it probably means either Tankivacs or Liberators need to be nerfed to compensate. | ||
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