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On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup  Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo.
PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ?
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On March 03 2016 05:54 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:51 Hider wrote:On March 03 2016 05:37 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On March 03 2016 05:36 Hider wrote:
Demuslim needs to shut up about the whole Major copying Koreans down to a teeth. YES he likes to study korean build orders, but his mid/late game is not comparable to any top koreans at all. Also which pro player doesn't study korean builds lol Demuslim I guess lol. Always perceived him as more of an intuitive than analytical player that "studies" the game. He should have studied Byun when Byun played on NA and farmed Demuslim for like 15 straight wins one day
iirc it was 17-0
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On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo.
To be fair, his corruptor style always involved speed roaches. But I think the need for/strength of ravagers in relation to their cost makes roach/ravager/corruptor unappealing in the midgame.
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On March 03 2016 05:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ?
ling/bane is straight up inferior because of the larva nerf
On March 03 2016 05:57 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. To be fair, his corruptor style always involved speed roaches. But I think the need for/strength of ravagers in relation to their cost makes roach/ravager/corruptor unappealing in the midgame.
actually no, you could go ling/bane/corruptor without roaches but it was bad vs 4M and only worked vs thor/hellbat/marauder comps
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On March 03 2016 05:57 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ? ling/bane is straight up inferior because of the larva nerf
ok thanks for all the answers guys
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On March 03 2016 05:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ?
I'd say: the higher the level of play, the worse Ling/Bane/Muta gets. Just generally speaking.
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Canada2764 Posts
Ling/Bane in silver-plat is free win.
Source : 90% winrate over like 60 games in ZvT over the last few months of HotS.
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hahahahhahaha Snute played him
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Haha that fake nydus lmao
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Snute you dirty bastard
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Austria16289 Posts
On March 03 2016 05:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ?
I know, PiG is a big fan of ling/bling/muta (and I think corruptors are fine too for that style). I feel like you can pull it off, but it's gotten a lot harder in my opinion. Also openings like 1-2 liberator harass from Terran kind of force you into ravagers early, so it's less of an investment to stay on that techpath in those situations imo. Dunno, I personally also prefer ling/bling based play but it feels like you are 10-20 supply lower in relation to the Terran than previously.
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On March 03 2016 05:57 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ? ling/bane is straight up inferior because of the larva nerf Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:57 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:41 Heartland wrote:
what do you use Vipers for in ZvT? Parasitic bomb? yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. To be fair, his corruptor style always involved speed roaches. But I think the need for/strength of ravagers in relation to their cost makes roach/ravager/corruptor unappealing in the midgame. actually no, you could go ling/bane/corruptor without roaches but it was bad vs 4M and only worked vs thor/hellbat/marauder comps
I'm pretty sure Dark always had speed roaches when he went for the corruptor style, slowly replacing them as they died. Might remember that wrong though.
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Well, MajOr fails the map awareness test. Liberation zone on top of the dead nydus ._.
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On March 03 2016 05:56 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:53 Grizvok wrote:
Major has no idea what he is doing. It's disgusting to watch. He's literally just letting Snute build this crazy strong army when he can be and should be attacking yet he gives Snute all the time in the world to make a perfect composition.
Although that's always been the big difference between Europeans/other players and Koreans. The killer instinct. I guarantee any top tier Terran after denying that fourth for so long and having a fourth then even fifth yourself go into crazy aggro-mode.
Despite Liberators being good units Terran will never be the sit back and build the ultimate army race...that died with mech really. Give me that mid game advantage and even I would've had a better shot at taking that game with an endless rally push.
So bad. It's not a matter of killer instinct lol. You can't always take frontal fights. The real problem Major has is that he doesn't know how to deal with Snute's army cost effectively. It's not even a perfect composition yet from Snute... Sad indeed tho
That's the point you are missing though. Instead of attacking with a huge economic lead he sits back and let's Snute get more Broodlords. His initial Broodlord count was like 5 or 6 yet the lead Major had was ridiculous. You sit back they make more of an extremely expensive unit instead of something they need RIGHT NOW because of your attack. He was light years ahead economically. Attacking forces out suboptimal units because you need them now. Not attacking allows the building of the army you are talking about.
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I like going for corruptor vs terran. You may have trouble with drops tho, so its a bit map dependent.
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Are they doing all the ro32 today?
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On March 03 2016 06:00 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 05:57 Ej_ wrote:On March 03 2016 05:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:
[quote]
yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. PiG on stream said you could go roach ravager OR ling bane muta in the midgame, so I guess you could try ling bane corruptor ? ling/bane is straight up inferior because of the larva nerf On March 03 2016 05:57 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:56 Big J wrote:On March 03 2016 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:On March 03 2016 05:53 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2016 05:52 Swisslink wrote:On March 03 2016 05:48 opisska wrote:On March 03 2016 05:46 Heartland wrote:On March 03 2016 05:45 opisska wrote:
[quote]
yes, particularly against someone who stubbornly refuses to split thanks, I've seen lots of Vipers... but almost always they get a-moved into the fight and die I have actually never seen this in a pro game before this series in ZvT, I think. But the first game made it really clear that Major has probably neither and he doesn't really have the training in splitting out the green ones. On the other hand, on ladder, I build vipers every single game the opponent has any air, in any matchup Haven't seen too many pro games lately: What do the Zerg normally build against this amount of Liberators? In my games, I'm just totally fucked against Liberators without Vipers. Well, either they make vipers in addition to infestors, corruptors, queens and maybe ravagers, or they suicide into the liberators and everything goes pop. Dark played with corruptors instead of mutas in ZvT sometimes in HotS, wouldn't that style do great in the current meta ? -even though Dark was like the only one to manage to make that composition work... It was a ling/bling style though, not roach/ravager. I find them very hard to pull off straight up in LotV because of the 12 worker + larva nerf combo. To be fair, his corruptor style always involved speed roaches. But I think the need for/strength of ravagers in relation to their cost makes roach/ravager/corruptor unappealing in the midgame. actually no, you could go ling/bane/corruptor without roaches but it was bad vs 4M and only worked vs thor/hellbat/marauder comps I'm pretty sure Dark always had speed roaches when he went for the corruptor style, slowly replacing them as they died. Might remember that wrong though.
there were 2 ways to open:
speed roach/speed bane opening into corruptors (which was 90% of corruptor games)
or standard ling/bane with corruptors (which had weaker midgame than LBM but your hive transition was stronger) (HyuN for example beat Heart at this mad TvZ peak with this)
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It won't be enough but MajOr microed that quite well actually
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Canada2764 Posts
On March 03 2016 06:01 BretZ wrote:
Are they doing all the ro32 today?
They're doing one more set of matches, the last two are tomorrow
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MAJOR SO UNDERRATE WORST PR
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EPT
