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On August 10 2015 20:04 SBGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:02 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 19:53 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 19:25 Topdoller wrote:man i feel sorry for Jjakji, by far the better player in this game imho. Protoss late game...urrggg  That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE Turrets dont defend against DTs well because Terran does not have a static defense which doesnt cost supply. Even a planetary in the lategame would die because dts can snipe turrets really fast. The first two dts already killed 18 workers. TvP lategame is imba mostly because of toss harass options like DTs and warp prisms. Also toss defenders advantage is insane because of instant warp ins. The only advantage that Terran really has in the lategame are the mules You don't play on a very high level, do you? Top 8 Masters , so no, I dont
You're top 8 masters and can't defend DTs who try to snipe the turrets in your bases?
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On August 10 2015 19:51 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 19:25 Topdoller wrote:man i feel sorry for Jjakji, by far the better player in this game imho. Protoss late game...urrggg That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE you miss the point here. with your logic, there can not be imbalances ever. however, it is most probable that there are small imbalances all over the game. if we make zealots for free and quintuple their damage and terrans then post about this, you would still hate these posts...
It's clearly we see this differently....and honestly this is why SC2 is fun.Personaly i'm a random master player and i can beat most late game protoss with terran on ladder, but occasionaly (more than occasionaly actualy...) comes a protoss that kicks my ass so hard...hard meaning absolutely stomps me... in lategame tvp.After that beating , do i think the game is imbalanced?...No....does Maru thinks late game tvp is imba after classic wrecked him ?(no similiraties here between me and Maru  ..i don't think he does... we all like to judge quickly and take the easiest solution : fuck small things here and there...the game is imba and that's it!
IMO imbalances are seen differently from player to player and are actually missing skills in a player arsenal/knowledge/mechanics/know how of the game.
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On August 10 2015 20:06 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:04 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 20:02 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 19:53 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 19:25 Topdoller wrote:man i feel sorry for Jjakji, by far the better player in this game imho. Protoss late game...urrggg That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE Turrets dont defend against DTs well because Terran does not have a static defense which doesnt cost supply. Even a planetary in the lategame would die because dts can snipe turrets really fast. The first two dts already killed 18 workers. TvP lategame is imba mostly because of toss harass options like DTs and warp prisms. Also toss defenders advantage is insane because of instant warp ins. The only advantage that Terran really has in the lategame are the mules You don't play on a very high level, do you? Top 8 Masters , so no, I dont You're top 8 masters and can't defend DTs who try to snipe the turrets in your bases? Yeah, that's normal top master is where people randomly die to 10 mutas every second game.
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On August 10 2015 20:06 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:04 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 20:02 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 19:53 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 19:25 Topdoller wrote:man i feel sorry for Jjakji, by far the better player in this game imho. Protoss late game...urrggg That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE Turrets dont defend against DTs well because Terran does not have a static defense which doesnt cost supply. Even a planetary in the lategame would die because dts can snipe turrets really fast. The first two dts already killed 18 workers. TvP lategame is imba mostly because of toss harass options like DTs and warp prisms. Also toss defenders advantage is insane because of instant warp ins. The only advantage that Terran really has in the lategame are the mules You don't play on a very high level, do you? Top 8 Masters , so no, I dont You're top 8 masters and can't defend DTs who try to snipe the turrets in your bases?
In the early and midgame, they are actually really easy to hold, but once you have around 5 bases, they are really annoying
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On August 10 2015 20:06 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:04 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 20:02 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 19:53 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 19:25 Topdoller wrote:man i feel sorry for Jjakji, by far the better player in this game imho. Protoss late game...urrggg That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE Turrets dont defend against DTs well because Terran does not have a static defense which doesnt cost supply. Even a planetary in the lategame would die because dts can snipe turrets really fast. The first two dts already killed 18 workers. TvP lategame is imba mostly because of toss harass options like DTs and warp prisms. Also toss defenders advantage is insane because of instant warp ins. The only advantage that Terran really has in the lategame are the mules You don't play on a very high level, do you? Top 8 Masters , so no, I dont You're top 8 masters and can't defend DTs who try to snipe the turrets in your bases?
in tvp lategame at this level, warpins are a huge problem because you can no defend them with the reinforcements and because they need all your attention because zealots are too hard to deal with with no micro. and mixed in dts make it even harder.
are you playing at this level?
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Austria24420 Posts
On August 10 2015 20:04 loko822 wrote:
That jakji sniped 2 nexus for almost free also doesnt seem to matter in your guys discussion...
He didn't. The first time he lost a lot of units to kill the natural nexus while at the same time losing units and ~10 SCVs at home to a warpin round of zealots => overall a better trade for sOs.
The second time he lost 18 SCVs at home to DTs because he didn't react to them.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37034 Posts
Guys, did Curious GG too early?
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On August 10 2015 20:15 Seeker wrote:
Guys, did Curious GG too early?
he had 1 drone and 30 mutas vs 6 spores and a fully mining base
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On August 10 2015 20:15 Seeker wrote:
Guys, did Curious GG too early?
which early do you mean between "fantasy early" and "idra early"
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On August 10 2015 20:15 Seeker wrote:
Guys, did Curious GG too early?
No, he was down to 1 drone to Rogue's mining 3rd. He couldn't have defended a new Hatchery.
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On August 10 2015 20:09 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:04 loko822 wrote:
That jakji sniped 2 nexus for almost free also doesnt seem to matter in your guys discussion... He didn't. The first time he lost a lot of units to kill the natural nexus while at the same time losing units and ~10 SCVs at home to a warpin round of zealots => overall a better trade for sOs. The second time he lost 18 SCVs at home to DTs because he didn't react to them.
Terran need more Lategame Ravens.
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On August 10 2015 20:18 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:09 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 20:04 loko822 wrote:
That jakji sniped 2 nexus for almost free also doesnt seem to matter in your guys discussion... He didn't. The first time he lost a lot of units to kill the natural nexus while at the same time losing units and ~10 SCVs at home to a warpin round of zealots => overall a better trade for sOs. The second time he lost 18 SCVs at home to DTs because he didn't react to them. Terran need more Lategame Ravens.
and feedback shouldnt do damage, just burn all the energy. defending a drop with 1 ht is too easy imo
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37034 Posts
I'm saying, he still had mutas right? Just #yolo and fight till he has nothing, then GG out.
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On August 10 2015 20:09 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:06 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 20:04 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 20:02 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 19:53 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 10 2015 19:25 Topdoller wrote:man i feel sorry for Jjakji, by far the better player in this game imho. Protoss late game...urrggg That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE Turrets dont defend against DTs well because Terran does not have a static defense which doesnt cost supply. Even a planetary in the lategame would die because dts can snipe turrets really fast. The first two dts already killed 18 workers. TvP lategame is imba mostly because of toss harass options like DTs and warp prisms. Also toss defenders advantage is insane because of instant warp ins. The only advantage that Terran really has in the lategame are the mules You don't play on a very high level, do you? Top 8 Masters , so no, I dont You're top 8 masters and can't defend DTs who try to snipe the turrets in your bases? in tvp lategame at this level, warpins are a huge problem because you can no defend them with the reinforcements and because they need all your attention because zealots are too hard to deal with with no micro. and mixed in dts make it even harder. are you playing at this level?
Eh, I meet plenty of Terrans on the ladder who are capable of defending themselves vs warpins in their bases. Others die, but that can be said for most decent Starcraft moves.
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On August 10 2015 20:20 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2015 20:09 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 20:06 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 20:04 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 20:02 Heartland wrote:On August 10 2015 19:53 SBGamer wrote:On August 10 2015 19:49 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:37 graNite wrote:On August 10 2015 19:34 x0x0 wrote:On August 10 2015 19:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's just not a fair thing to say about this game at all. sOs was always finding ways to damage Jjakji's economy while building a stronger army. He was the better player this game, even though his engagements were shaky. He was the better player cause he won the game and that's it.Jjakji was the worst player cause he didn't build a turret near his ramp and near that sensor tower. This is the best game for a case study on how to lose a game when you're the dominant player.Sometimes, I think the pro players are way to confident in their skills and don't follow a logic thought : How can i lose this game, considering i'm doint better than my opponent? lets say storms do 100x damage. jjakjji is ahead up until storm, then loses. with your logic, it was his fault he didnt consider storms to be able to beat him. a theory is not really good when it is not possible to falsify. couldnt it be possible that tvp lategame is imbalanced? if you dont give me a way to prove that, your point is invalid. yet again another "wine" about imbalance....MECH vs zerg is imba...lategame tvp is imba......everything is imba on this game... don't look for the root cause just point to the easiest ideea: imbalance. What if Jjakji had better control with his army, what if he had 1 turret near that sensor tower and his ramp...would you agree he would have hade so much better chances at winning?....Small thing like this can determine the outcome of a game played by 2 similar skilled players(just for today...i think sOs overall is more skilled that Jjakji ) not IMBALANCE Turrets dont defend against DTs well because Terran does not have a static defense which doesnt cost supply. Even a planetary in the lategame would die because dts can snipe turrets really fast. The first two dts already killed 18 workers. TvP lategame is imba mostly because of toss harass options like DTs and warp prisms. Also toss defenders advantage is insane because of instant warp ins. The only advantage that Terran really has in the lategame are the mules You don't play on a very high level, do you? Top 8 Masters , so no, I dont You're top 8 masters and can't defend DTs who try to snipe the turrets in your bases? in tvp lategame at this level, warpins are a huge problem because you can no defend them with the reinforcements and because they need all your attention because zealots are too hard to deal with with no micro. and mixed in dts make it even harder. are you playing at this level? Eh, I meet plenty of Terrans on the ladder who are capable of defending themselves vs warpins in their bases. Others die, but that can be said for most decent Starcraft moves.
it is not about dieing or not, it is about the amount of work i have to do to defend this as a terran compared to the protoss who just warps in and amoves zealots
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On August 10 2015 20:26 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Ej making it, I imagine?
nope
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
do I need to revive the LRJL to motivate new LR OPs
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Oh no, Maru was caught by his old Prime vibes... 0-3 so far. Luckily I dont have a FPL-Team this season.
Great, JAGW won it in the end. Yeah!
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EPT
