• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:07
CEST 22:07
KST 05:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War565.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Repalyzer - replay analysis app for StarCraft: Rem Fantasy returning? TL Sidebar missing streams Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8709 users

[IEM Season IX] Katowice - Day 3 - Page 252

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 250 251 252 253 254 260 Next
Cut down on the balance/design whining please.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28536 Posts
March 14 2015 22:22 GMT
#5021
On March 15 2015 07:21 Phredxor wrote:
I don't know why people can't just band together and enjoy TvT and PvP and hate on the trash that is ZvZ instead.

I don't know why people can't just band together and enjoy TvT and PvP and ZvZ
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
March 14 2015 22:23 GMT
#5022
On March 15 2015 07:21 Phredxor wrote:
I don't know why people can't just band together and enjoy TvT and PvP and hate on the trash that is ZvZ instead.

My only issue with ZvZ is that Zerg units look gross when they die and ZvZ features twice the regular amount of Zerg <.<. Other than that, I actually have no match I dislike to watch, although current meta TvT can get annoying at times.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 14 2015 22:23 GMT
#5023
On March 15 2015 07:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What I like best about PvP is that it's like a magic hat. You can reach in there and get literally anything. Sometimes you draw a wonderful set of flowers, sometimes there's a rat in it that bites your fingers off.

Well i think that quote would work for starcraft as a whole
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
March 14 2015 22:23 GMT
#5024
On March 15 2015 07:22 Rollora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:17 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:16 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:13 Deathstar wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:12 THM wrote:
Great tournament but I'm so disappointed that there's gonna be PvP finals tomorrow. I had invited friends over to watch but I don't think they'll want to come now ;(

PvP is highly action packed with lots of micro, like dota. Stuff will be happening everywhere. Def bring your friends over!

Are you making fun of something?
"lots of micro"
:D Ever played a High-Level Tvs anything?
You wouldn't call "blink somewhere" lots of micro.


You are one of the most delusional people I've ever come across...

Ok. Then tell me what is there so much to micro.
I mean: when I get terran (I play random mostly)->
When I encounter a protoss army, I move the marauders in Front, I marines in the back, medivacs on a different control group or they won't heal, split the army and spread it, stim parts of the army, select another control group (ghosts) and try to emp, focus down colossi with vikings while avoiding stalkers.
During fights I have around 250 APM, which isn't great. But its a hell lot of micro.

Tell me what Protoss has so much to micro here? Select clossi and move it back? Or in a stalker vs stalker battle select the weakened stalker and blink it back. You must be kidding when you say that is a lot of micro.


lol i play zerg so I think I'm uber leet micro when I run one zergling in to trigger a mine.

protoss and terran micro always blows me away/blows me
Zerg for Life
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
March 14 2015 22:24 GMT
#5025
On March 15 2015 07:20 Shellshock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What I like best about PvP is that it's like a magic hat. You can reach in there and get literally anything. Sometimes you draw a wonderful set of flowers, sometimes there's a rat in it that bites your fingers off.

or maybe it's like magic because you're trying to get us to buy into an illusion

This was a damn good comeback. Both clever and in context. 10/10.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
March 14 2015 22:24 GMT
#5026
On March 15 2015 07:21 KelsierSC wrote:
I know it's sort of "weird" but I think high level PvP offers the most potential for a total fucking stomp. Like one guy just get's in his opponents head and just totally obliterates him and makes him look silly.

Like the GSL final between Seed and MC. That whole series was totally surreal as Seed just got inside MC's brain and started dicking around with the wires.


I don't think that was about PvP though. That was something that Seed did to people. You can see it throughout his entire GSL run. Symbol, Byun, etc. all could have beaten him. But he got in their head somehow and messed with their wires.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Spinoza
Profile Joined October 2010
667 Posts
March 14 2015 22:24 GMT
#5027
On March 15 2015 07:12 Rollora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:07 Deathstar wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:06 Lexender wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:02 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:02 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 06:56 Solar424 wrote:
Remember when everyone hated Terran

TvT was never that boring.
Yeah there were LOTS AND LOTS of TvTs but they were often exciting and back and forth.
I also remember Taeja vs Flash as one of the best TvTs 2-3 years back, Flash still being new but it was a great Macro TvT on... Whirlwhind IIRC


watching tanks siege, unsiege then siege again is boring as fuck.

tvt used to be terrible


I understand the hate for mirrors, but you have to agree siege+unsiege its somewhat better than colossus vs colossus


PvP is most skilled, entertaining, and fun match up

Yeah, A-Move vs A-Move and the only advantage is the better army composition.
Not even storms or something is casted, although they would deal a lot of damage to that (opponents) ball.


This is however not true, PvP is a cloak and dagger game. I have seen some amazing PvPs but if it goes beyond midgame you kind of start reading random shit on the net instead. Even though I am disappointed by these results, we may get a fairly entertaining finals. Not ever finals can be or should be a ZvT.
FanTaSy | Flash | Movie | Leta | Stork | Map:Destination[BW]
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
March 14 2015 22:24 GMT
#5028
On March 15 2015 07:21 Phredxor wrote:
I don't know why people can't just band together and enjoy TvT and PvP and hate on the trash that is ZvZ instead.

I like ZvZ more than TvT :X
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Rollora
Profile Joined February 2012
2450 Posts
March 14 2015 22:24 GMT
#5029
On March 15 2015 07:20 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:17 Penev wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:16 Ammanas wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:13 johnbongham wrote:
Are people seriously trying to argue that two players vying for position with meticulous micro is more boring than watching two deathballs slam into each other after after a complete turtlefest? If it even makes it that far.

Now I am c onfused, which of these is PvP and which is TvT? (but yeah, current TvT is much much better then TvT in WoL).

Really, with the doom drops bs? :-S

still better then lines of tanks sitting at one spot constantly scanning all over the opponents army and once someone moves couple of centimetres, it's over. Actually, roach vs roach is better then old TvT for me. I just hate that matchup from WoL, so boring and unnecessarily long.~~

WoL was a pain for a lot of ppl, I understand that :D
Like: PvP.
Either someone cheesed or it whent on till everyone was maxed out having 20 colossi and made the a-move.
So skil, much wow! LAZRS!!
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
March 14 2015 22:24 GMT
#5030
On March 15 2015 07:22 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:21 Phredxor wrote:
I don't know why people can't just band together and enjoy TvT and PvP and hate on the trash that is ZvZ instead.

I don't know why people can't just band together and enjoy TvT and PvP and ZvZ


That could also work
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
March 14 2015 22:26 GMT
#5031
On March 15 2015 07:24 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:21 KelsierSC wrote:
I know it's sort of "weird" but I think high level PvP offers the most potential for a total fucking stomp. Like one guy just get's in his opponents head and just totally obliterates him and makes him look silly.

Like the GSL final between Seed and MC. That whole series was totally surreal as Seed just got inside MC's brain and started dicking around with the wires.


I don't think that was about PvP though. That was something that Seed did to people. You can see it throughout his entire GSL run. Symbol, Byun, etc. all could have beaten him. But he got in their head somehow and messed with their wires.

It's what Protosses can do in general over the course of a series/tournament. It's how Trap got the better of Flash, for example. On Expedition Lost, he got him so afraid of an early all-in that Flash basically got himself behind.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 14 2015 22:26 GMT
#5032
On March 15 2015 07:24 royalroadweed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:20 Shellshock wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What I like best about PvP is that it's like a magic hat. You can reach in there and get literally anything. Sometimes you draw a wonderful set of flowers, sometimes there's a rat in it that bites your fingers off.

or maybe it's like magic because you're trying to get us to buy into an illusion

This was a damn good comeback. Both clever and in context. 10/10.

Yeah shellshock is really witty
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
March 14 2015 22:26 GMT
#5033
On March 15 2015 07:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:24 royalroadweed wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:20 Shellshock wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What I like best about PvP is that it's like a magic hat. You can reach in there and get literally anything. Sometimes you draw a wonderful set of flowers, sometimes there's a rat in it that bites your fingers off.

or maybe it's like magic because you're trying to get us to buy into an illusion

This was a damn good comeback. Both clever and in context. 10/10.

Yeah shellshock is really witty


haha

no

<3
Zerg for Life
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5034
On March 15 2015 07:22 Rollora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:17 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:16 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:13 Deathstar wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:12 THM wrote:
Great tournament but I'm so disappointed that there's gonna be PvP finals tomorrow. I had invited friends over to watch but I don't think they'll want to come now ;(

PvP is highly action packed with lots of micro, like dota. Stuff will be happening everywhere. Def bring your friends over!

Are you making fun of something?
"lots of micro"
:D Ever played a High-Level Tvs anything?
You wouldn't call "blink somewhere" lots of micro.


You are one of the most delusional people I've ever come across...

Ok. Then tell me what is there so much to micro.
I mean: when I get terran (I play random mostly)->
When I encounter a protoss army, I move the marauders in Front, I marines in the back, medivacs on a different control group or they won't heal, split the army and spread it, stim parts of the army, select another control group (ghosts) and try to emp, focus down colossi with vikings while avoiding stalkers.
During fights I have around 250 APM, which isn't great. But its a hell lot of micro.

Tell me what Protoss has so much to micro here? Select clossi and move it back? Or in a stalker vs stalker battle select the weakened stalker and blink it back. You must be kidding when you say that is a lot of micro.

bring zealots to front, dodge emps and snipes, focus fire vikings with stalkers, pull weaken colossus back, storm....
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5035
On March 15 2015 07:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What I like best about PvP is that it's like a magic hat. You can reach in there and get literally anything. Sometimes you draw a wonderful set of flowers, sometimes there's a rat in it that bites your fingers off.


And if you're herO, you ignroe the 2 gates building next to the magic hat and die wondering where those zealots came from.
Moderator
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5036
no ban plox
Zerg for Life
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5037
On March 15 2015 07:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:22 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:17 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:16 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:13 Deathstar wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:12 THM wrote:
Great tournament but I'm so disappointed that there's gonna be PvP finals tomorrow. I had invited friends over to watch but I don't think they'll want to come now ;(

PvP is highly action packed with lots of micro, like dota. Stuff will be happening everywhere. Def bring your friends over!

Are you making fun of something?
"lots of micro"
:D Ever played a High-Level Tvs anything?
You wouldn't call "blink somewhere" lots of micro.


You are one of the most delusional people I've ever come across...

Ok. Then tell me what is there so much to micro.
I mean: when I get terran (I play random mostly)->
When I encounter a protoss army, I move the marauders in Front, I marines in the back, medivacs on a different control group or they won't heal, split the army and spread it, stim parts of the army, select another control group (ghosts) and try to emp, focus down colossi with vikings while avoiding stalkers.
During fights I have around 250 APM, which isn't great. But its a hell lot of micro.

Tell me what Protoss has so much to micro here? Select clossi and move it back? Or in a stalker vs stalker battle select the weakened stalker and blink it back. You must be kidding when you say that is a lot of micro.

bring zealots to front, dodge emps and snipes, focus fire vikings with stalkers, pull weaken colossus back, storm....

Don't bother anymore, he won't listen.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5038
On March 15 2015 07:26 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:24 royalroadweed wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:20 Shellshock wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:19 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What I like best about PvP is that it's like a magic hat. You can reach in there and get literally anything. Sometimes you draw a wonderful set of flowers, sometimes there's a rat in it that bites your fingers off.

or maybe it's like magic because you're trying to get us to buy into an illusion

This was a damn good comeback. Both clever and in context. 10/10.

Yeah shellshock is really witty


haha

no

<3

See, that on the other hand wasn't witty at all </3
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Rollora
Profile Joined February 2012
2450 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5039
On March 15 2015 07:23 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2015 07:22 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:17 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:16 Rollora wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:13 Deathstar wrote:
On March 15 2015 07:12 THM wrote:
Great tournament but I'm so disappointed that there's gonna be PvP finals tomorrow. I had invited friends over to watch but I don't think they'll want to come now ;(

PvP is highly action packed with lots of micro, like dota. Stuff will be happening everywhere. Def bring your friends over!

Are you making fun of something?
"lots of micro"
:D Ever played a High-Level Tvs anything?
You wouldn't call "blink somewhere" lots of micro.


You are one of the most delusional people I've ever come across...

Ok. Then tell me what is there so much to micro.
I mean: when I get terran (I play random mostly)->
When I encounter a protoss army, I move the marauders in Front, I marines in the back, medivacs on a different control group or they won't heal, split the army and spread it, stim parts of the army, select another control group (ghosts) and try to emp, focus down colossi with vikings while avoiding stalkers.
During fights I have around 250 APM, which isn't great. But its a hell lot of micro.

Tell me what Protoss has so much to micro here? Select clossi and move it back? Or in a stalker vs stalker battle select the weakened stalker and blink it back. You must be kidding when you say that is a lot of micro.


lol i play zerg so I think I'm uber leet micro when I run one zergling in to trigger a mine.

protoss and terran micro always blows me away/blows me

I second that. Your micro is over leet. You are better then 1337. Because most Zergs I face on ladder don't even do that. Or protoss that don't cast halluzinations or make an observer and say WM is imba (although I rarely make them, cause I hate the randomness about them).
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
March 14 2015 22:27 GMT
#5040
On March 15 2015 07:27 KelsierSC wrote:
no ban plox

just don't go full swag_bro and it's ok
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Prev 1 250 251 252 253 254 260 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: Ladder Tournament
04:00
#3 - $100
ZZZero.O126
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
02:00
Swiss - Round 5
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Liquid`TLO 681
JuggernautJason89
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 636
Shuttle 511
ZZZero.O 126
Zeus 65
Hyun 42
soO 35
Dota 2
qojqva2394
canceldota55
League of Legends
Doublelift184
Counter-Strike
fl0m5452
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4044
Liquid`Hasu718
Other Games
summit1g4672
FrodaN1084
KnowMe333
420jenkins257
Pyrionflax208
ToD204
Livibee169
QueenE61
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick661
StarCraft 2
angryscii 37
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 89
• Hupsaiya 47
• Adnapsc2 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 38
• FirePhoenix6
• niya90s 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1829
Other Games
• imaqtpie971
• Shiphtur606
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
13h 53m
Patches Events
18h 53m
BSL Open Qualifier
22h 53m
BSL Open Qualifier
22h 53m
OSC
1d 2h
OSC
1d 15h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Online Event
5 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.