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People seriously arguing about 2 rax? Reason why players like Marineking and Maru could do the build routinely and pull off championship runs (or silver runs) was because they had literally the best micro of their respective races during those runs. Players like Boxer / MVP / Flash get wins with 2 rax because of mind games and expectations, where it's much less to do with the actual "match up" in theory than with those isolated instances of high pressure situations. Playing a rare strategy also means your opponent is much less likely to practice against it, very few zerg players boot up a lobby with a dedicated training partner just to practice against a 2 rax across the multiple map pools.
People that look at things on paper fail to account for the fact that there are specialists that can make under-represented builds work as well as seasoned veterans that understand how to mind game their opponent. 2 rax has a high win rate BECAUSE it's a rare build, if it ceased to be a rare build it would drop in win rate because more people would prepare against it, that's just the nature of any meta.
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On November 16 2014 23:21 Lorning wrote:
Why is HyuN always allowed to play with these annoying ling skins?
It's Hyunstoppable
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On November 16 2014 23:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 23:18 PappaNappa wrote:
I hope we get games today without Incontrol/Destiny/QXC casting. All of them are sooo annoying -.- Better them than some socially awkward progamer or a korean who doesn't speak much english.
This is HSC. No need to give people with bipolar disorder like those thee mentionend room to shine.
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On November 16 2014 23:21 Lorning wrote:
Why is HyuN always allowed to play with these annoying ling skins?
I just wonder why anyone would ever even use them. So ugly. ;_;
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I say something positive about a player and they die almost immeditely after. It works every time
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If only hyun had some maps on the ling...
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if aggression don't work,
do more aggression until it works.
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Must be tough to be a taeja anti fan.
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On November 16 2014 23:17 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 23:14 SoulmaN__ wrote:On November 16 2014 23:07 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 23:01 Alchemik wrote:On November 16 2014 22:59 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 22:57 Symbioth wrote:
11/11 is just so insanely strong, it's hard for me to understand why nothing has ever been done about this build. It's just way too strong. Care to tell us why it's only played 7-8% of the time in TvZ pro games then? And same question for all the "mech TvZ is broken" folks.  actually those questions aren't very smart like, I'm not saying 2 rax is broken, I don't think it is, but it's just impossible to play it all the time (unless you're Maru, I guess), because Zergs could blind counter it Ah? So there's a blind counter? What is it? On November 16 2014 23:01 SoulmaN__ wrote:On November 16 2014 22:54 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 22:48 KingAlphard wrote:On November 16 2014 22:45 pigmanbear wrote:On November 16 2014 22:45 KingAlphard wrote:On November 16 2014 22:43 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 22:40 KingAlphard wrote:
Really, I keep not understanding why progamers don't do 11/11 every single game since not even 14/14 beats it. Can someone explain? Maybe because it's not a freewin like you think? I never seen it fail in any tournament I watched in the last months. Or could you link a vod if I'm wrong because even though I don't play zerg I'm curious to see how you beat it? You beat it the same way as ever, by pulling enough drones to crush the attack early. Thanks but I would really like a VOD. They told me to do so as a protoss too and the result is always that you lose 10 workers to kill 2 marines and a scv and then you have no economy. Are you seriously complaining about 2 rax TvP? Like... For real? For VODs, why not start by jjakji vs LosirA on Merry from this very tournament? Literally can't remember the last time a 2 rax was beaten in TvZ! Well, it was 2 days ago... You can also watch TaeJa vs soO on Overgrowth from Blizzcon, TY vs Dark on Deadwing from WECG Korea, Journey vs Impact (Merry) from OlimoLeague #9, Center vs Life (Merry) from 32 Boys 1 Cup KR qualifiers, etc., etc. Losira vs. Jjakji is a really bad example, because Jjakji didn't build them proxy, but outside of his natural, so the rush distance was actually insane. Lol. Yeah, welcome to modern 2 rax... soO vs. Taeja, Taeja was ahead after the 2 rax by a lot, soO just entered godmode and dragged the game on for 30 minutes while almost winning. Hilarious description of what actually happened. soO blocked the attack extremely easily (at which point TaeJa is certainly not ahead) until he blundered 2 Queens and 15 lings for no valid reason. After that he was so behind that... he had a macro game despite going for a bane bust that did so little. If soO wouldn't have chase the marines he would have had to build more and more zerglings or a ton of spines to not die to pure marine. And you can't deny that Taeja would have been at least even because he would have gone into double CC yolo swag mode and would have been in a better position than soO. TaeJa would have been in a better position had soO built one Spine ("a ton of Spines" ... lol...) instead of giving 2 Queens and 15 lings. OK. You have seriously no idea what you're talking about.
So if it's so easy to hold it, why don't we see people hold it always, or at least most of the time?
Is it because 2 rax is an autowin against hatch first or what?
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On November 16 2014 23:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I say something positive about a player and they die almost immeditely after. It works every time
Artosis curse has a contender.
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On November 16 2014 23:23 Tanzklaue wrote:
if aggression don't work,
do more aggression until it works.
If hellbats don´t work. Add more hellbats. Early hots taught that to us :D
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1:0 Taeja. But nothing lost yet, gogogo Hyun!
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unfortunatelly HyuN is so dead.
Lets do the comeback in the next games HyuN! I #believe
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your Country52798 Posts
On November 16 2014 23:24 PappaNappa wrote:
1:0 Taeja. But nothing lost yet, gogogo Hyun!
How far ahead is your stream compared to mine? O.o
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On November 16 2014 23:24 SoulmaN__ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 23:17 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 23:14 SoulmaN__ wrote:On November 16 2014 23:07 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 23:01 Alchemik wrote:On November 16 2014 22:59 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 22:57 Symbioth wrote:
11/11 is just so insanely strong, it's hard for me to understand why nothing has ever been done about this build. It's just way too strong. Care to tell us why it's only played 7-8% of the time in TvZ pro games then? And same question for all the "mech TvZ is broken" folks. actually those questions aren't very smart like, I'm not saying 2 rax is broken, I don't think it is, but it's just impossible to play it all the time (unless you're Maru, I guess), because Zergs could blind counter it Ah? So there's a blind counter? What is it? On November 16 2014 23:01 SoulmaN__ wrote:On November 16 2014 22:54 TheDwf wrote:On November 16 2014 22:48 KingAlphard wrote:On November 16 2014 22:45 pigmanbear wrote:On November 16 2014 22:45 KingAlphard wrote:On November 16 2014 22:43 TheDwf wrote:
[quote]
Maybe because it's not a freewin like you think? I never seen it fail in any tournament I watched in the last months. Or could you link a vod if I'm wrong because even though I don't play zerg I'm curious to see how you beat it? You beat it the same way as ever, by pulling enough drones to crush the attack early. Thanks but I would really like a VOD. They told me to do so as a protoss too and the result is always that you lose 10 workers to kill 2 marines and a scv and then you have no economy. Are you seriously complaining about 2 rax TvP? Like... For real? For VODs, why not start by jjakji vs LosirA on Merry from this very tournament? Literally can't remember the last time a 2 rax was beaten in TvZ! Well, it was 2 days ago... You can also watch TaeJa vs soO on Overgrowth from Blizzcon, TY vs Dark on Deadwing from WECG Korea, Journey vs Impact (Merry) from OlimoLeague #9, Center vs Life (Merry) from 32 Boys 1 Cup KR qualifiers, etc., etc. Losira vs. Jjakji is a really bad example, because Jjakji didn't build them proxy, but outside of his natural, so the rush distance was actually insane. Lol. Yeah, welcome to modern 2 rax... soO vs. Taeja, Taeja was ahead after the 2 rax by a lot, soO just entered godmode and dragged the game on for 30 minutes while almost winning. Hilarious description of what actually happened. soO blocked the attack extremely easily (at which point TaeJa is certainly not ahead) until he blundered 2 Queens and 15 lings for no valid reason. After that he was so behind that... he had a macro game despite going for a bane bust that did so little. If soO wouldn't have chase the marines he would have had to build more and more zerglings or a ton of spines to not die to pure marine. And you can't deny that Taeja would have been at least even because he would have gone into double CC yolo swag mode and would have been in a better position than soO. TaeJa would have been in a better position had soO built one Spine ("a ton of Spines" ... lol...) instead of giving 2 Queens and 15 lings. OK. You have seriously no idea what you're talking about. So if it's so easy to hold it, why don't we see people hold it always, or at least most of the time?
Unless you have actual stats/data about the winrate of 2 rax vs hatch first, your complaints are just hot air
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Well thankfully Flash beat Snute, we still have the dream Flash vs Jaedong final possible.
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On November 16 2014 23:25 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 23:24 PappaNappa wrote:
1:0 Taeja. But nothing lost yet, gogogo Hyun! How far ahead is your stream compared to mine? O.o
He's extrapolating.
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On November 16 2014 23:25 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 23:24 PappaNappa wrote:
1:0 Taeja. But nothing lost yet, gogogo Hyun! How far ahead is your stream compared to mine? O.o
It's 30 supply ahead for Taeja. I'm no caster who's trying to hype games that are already over. Zerg never comes back from this.
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EPT
