On August 09 2014 06:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:
un-expected seeing reality advance over trap
100% terran advance rate so far
TY Flash and Bbyong are the last to prove themselves

The terran line up is pretty sick this season, with the exception of Reality and Flash.

Rollora

2450 Posts

August 09 2014 00:06 GMT

#1009

On August 09 2014 00:00 SatedSC2 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 08 2014 23:54 Rollora wrote:

On August 08 2014 23:07 Rollora wrote:

On August 08 2014 22:56 SatedSC2 wrote:

it is still annoying to see like 3 units kept at home being enough to defend a 2-3 medivac drop.

Unless those three units were Dark Templar, I'm pretty sure this has never happened. A three Medivac drop will wreck a Nexus before Photon Overcharge has any significant effect if there are only three Gateway units around to defend. Be serious. Photon Overcharge can deflect a single Medivac drop from doing damage, but nothing more than that. Not with only three units around and certainly not on its own.

"pretty sure it never happened"
Stop being ridiculous, thats happening every day these days:
I am watching too much SC2 lately(Destiny, Dragon, WCS, Code S), so I cannot name any specific games, but this happens almost in any BO3.

What it takes? 1 HT, 2 Chargelots and an observer, the moment the 2-3 Medivacs boost in just warpin zealots, feedback Medivacs and press the overcharge button.

Ofc it doesnt work with 3 stalkers and no warpins behind that. But the warpin mechanics, as well as overcharge, as well as chargelots are extremely strong vs marauders (and cheap) make it extremely easy to defend drops.
I also wished warpin would be removed, so as a protoss I would have to split armies more and also attack at several places at once, not having this army ball.
Since I play toss myself, this is really taking a lot of fun out of it and playing the game I still feel it is the least fun race to play, cause of the lack of control (of units, army, map) that is required to control the game itself.
But that is just my opinion and will ofc change in highere levels.
Problem also is that imbalances in the game design get bigger the more you go down the leagues/ladder (like: constant harassing, dropping and taking the perfect engagements may be balanced at a 400 apm korean player, but below that the difference between how many APM you HAVE to have and how forgiving a race is gets bigger and bigger)

Edit: happened right now at dragon inv, Finals San vs Alive: Alive has 2 Medivacs full of units, sees 1 colossus - has to pull back, gets more units, wants to drop again, moves in - sees colossus now with 2 zealots 1 sentry . moves back

Happened again just now, San had 1 Zealot and 1 HT, Alive was dropping 3 Madivacs full of units, lost everything to some chargelots that got warped in and the overcharge. So pls stop saying the 3 unit vs 3 medivacs defense isn't something that ever happenes.
Just saying, it happens really in EVERY game, overcharge and the combination of warpin mechanics is too strong

If Chargelots were warped in then it's no longer three units is it? You've essentially just moved the goalposts on your original statement =P

what I said is that for defense Toss needs only these 3 units. it wasn't ME who assumed there will be no warpins.
all I said is these 3 units are required at first. I did NEVER say these 3 units alone do the trick, but they do enough so the toss is save, doesn't need to think of walking back the army etc...

Rollora

2450 Posts

August 09 2014 00:12 GMT

#1010

On August 09 2014 00:16 SatedSC2 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 09 2014 00:05 johnbongham wrote:

On August 09 2014 00:00 SatedSC2 wrote:

On August 08 2014 23:54 Rollora wrote:

On August 08 2014 23:07 Rollora wrote:

On August 08 2014 22:56 SatedSC2 wrote:

it is still annoying to see like 3 units kept at home being enough to defend a 2-3 medivac drop.

If Chargelots were warped in then it's no longer three units is it..? =P

The difference is the protoss can use those warpins offensively if no drop actually comes. If a terran moves his entire army out across the map and a warp prism rolls into the main there is basically 0 chance the terran can fight off a warp prism with only freshly spawned bio who often just die the instant they spawn. You have to turn at least part of your army around and run all the way home to defend. Protoss can safely move out and rely on warpins to defend if they even need to, and then if that doesn't work they can always recall.

You don't always have a warp-in. Your Warpgates aren't always off cool-down. They're not some magic thing that you always have available to you when you need them. What happens if you warp-in and then three Medivacs appear under your spotting Observers? Well, shit son, you're about to lose your main. Warp-ins will not reliably defend drops. They're a desperation measure.

Barracks have just as much chance of being ready to spawn units as Warpgates have of being ready to warp-in. The only reliable way to defend drops is to constantly have units/static defence in position, preferably with High Templar for Feedback. Being able to warp-in is nice, but it's not something that prevents drops from happening. Implying that is a total farce.

there is a HUGE Difference:
1. Barracks take way longer to produce units
2. They still need to get over to the place where the drop happens - not the case for warpin right next or even under the drop (pls don't mention the warpin time..., its ridiculous and often takes less time then unloading the dropships)
3. besides producing faster and being able to spawn where you immidiately want to have the units, warpgates are cheaper as well, so you can make some spare ones.
4. there is still something bugging me about modern PvAnything- there is always a lot of nexus energy left in mid/endgame. So its not even necessary to chrono all the time, even though its extremely strong.
5. you cannot accelerate the rate of which a unit is produced by 50% just by a click...

So defending as toss and as terran are simply put, completely different and also require the terran to have more units at home. Same is for TvZ, when a 20+ Muta flock is coming in (although I have to say that that is even hard to defend as toss, with or without warpin, blink and overcharge).

And you may or may not have caught, that I actually play toss and I can really say it is easier to warpin units where you need then then always have the right (and not too much) ammount of army at home for defense (and in good position).

ppdealer

Canada163 Posts

August 09 2014 00:18 GMT

#1011

On August 09 2014 01:03 sm1995 wrote:
Kr progamer always defened drop too easily thats the point.terran's strength is the fast movement. Thats it. But defence is too easy for kr pro. Thats the problem. Two high templar and some zealot prepared. And observer found drop then warp som zealot more. Thats it

That means it's easy for Terran to drop then pick-up and leave when things go wrong. Terran also scan ahead to judge army position of Protoss and where it's best to drop. Other things I agree with you. (I just don't quite buy that Protoss is easier than the other two races..)

Terran has high dps per cost for their bio compared to Gateway units, secondly OC can fly, which sort of balance out the warp-in mechanics.