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On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good  I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good?
Be able to load them up into Overlords and have them shoot locusts into our opponents base, would give some love to Ventril Sacs!
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On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good?
thx god you guys don't have David Kim's job
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Oh right. Loser's game first.
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On June 26 2014 09:13 RatzBarcode wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 08:58 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So did Nesteas mechanics just get worse or did everyone use to be that bad? Both. Watch some games from 2011/early 2012, keep bleach available for rinsing of eyes. People were just bad. Serious question, why does everyone say early SC2 was bad? No one went macro? Everyone did SCV pulls and one base raven plays? No splits?
Generally poor mechanics(Boxer floating 1k+ minerals on 2 bases constantly), primitive meta, no one knew how to engage properly(zerg would a-move banes into marauders, which would still work because no one spread their bio anyway). Tons of cheese, some fairly broken stuff had yet to be fixed(void ray speed comes to mind). Also the maps were beyond horrific. Blizzard maps are generally shit but the early map pools were in a league of their own.
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On June 26 2014 09:13 RatzBarcode wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 08:58 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So did Nesteas mechanics just get worse or did everyone use to be that bad? Both. Watch some games from 2011/early 2012, keep bleach available for rinsing of eyes. People were just bad. Serious question, why does everyone say early SC2 was bad? No one went macro? Everyone did SCV pulls and one base raven plays? No splits?
Generally less macro, poorer mechanics, super basic strats, Terran was crazy OP, just lesser play in general. Imagine everyone was diamond and the game had no balance.
edit: oh, and maps. the maps were the worst thing ever. go take a look at Xelnaga Caverns and keep in mind it was pretty much the best map of it's day
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On June 26 2014 09:16 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good? thx god you guys don't have David Kim's job
Dude if you put me in charge of balance I would burn down the game pretty hard. Tanks that can seige on top of medivacs, Broodlords that fire zerglings, and Colossi that can Breakdance to shoot air units.
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On June 26 2014 09:16 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good? Be able to load them up into Overlords and have them shoot locusts into our opponents base, would give some love to Ventril Sacs!
So the zerg equivalent of dogs with bees in their mouths?
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On June 26 2014 09:18 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:16 Undead1993 wrote:On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good? thx god you guys don't have David Kim's job Dude if you put me in charge of balance I would burn down the game pretty hard. Tanks that can seige on top of medivacs, Broodlords that fire zerglings, and Colossi that can Breakdance to shoot air units.
Or you could go truely mad and make carriers viable.
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I'd just put the Reaver back in and make it do 200 damage.
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On June 26 2014 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:18 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On June 26 2014 09:16 Undead1993 wrote:On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good? thx god you guys don't have David Kim's job Dude if you put me in charge of balance I would burn down the game pretty hard. Tanks that can seige on top of medivacs, Broodlords that fire zerglings, and Colossi that can Breakdance to shoot air units. Or you could go truely mad and make carriers viable.
Even I'm not that crazy.
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"In the game of drones, you either win or you play protoss" -Clutch.
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On June 26 2014 09:20 Squat wrote:
I'd just out the Reaver back in and make it do 200 damage.
How about letting the Mothership core build scarabs and activate as an ability.
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On June 26 2014 09:20 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On June 26 2014 09:18 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On June 26 2014 09:16 Undead1993 wrote:On June 26 2014 09:14 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:11 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:08 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 09:03 Mozdk wrote:On June 26 2014 09:02 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:59 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Fourty. Four. Mutas. And to think he could have built more had he not been supply blocked. Muta switches are so overhyped. It should never work against a protoss who is ahead on eco and isn't an idiot. Mass muta switches is a great way to look kind of cool before dying. Well if Z does it all the time, it wont work. But if you don't start phoenix as he starts mutas, you are pretty dead in most situations. Even when ahead. So it depends on meta... And if the specific player does it a lot. Mutas are great if you can manipulate the game to where they can be effective, i.e. keep toss on three bases, make them commit huge amounts to phoenix while you expand everywhere. In the position he was in this game, even if Nestea gets 50 mutas before Alicia has a single phoenix out, it still shouldn't work. Just stay alive, get phoenix, win by default. Yeah the game was over. No more mining bases for Nestea and the muta switch made him broke. So ofc he cannot win at that point. Even if P does a basetrade, there is no way for Nestea to get back. I was just saying in general. I dislike mutas. Which must mean they are good I like lings... Stay on lings, and I'll be fine... Hiding behind my high walls like King Priam of Troy :D Well since the two zerg styles that work in the late game against P are mass muta and hosts, I guess we could nerf mutas if we buffed hosts, maybe we could make the locusts flying units. Sound good? thx god you guys don't have David Kim's job Dude if you put me in charge of balance I would burn down the game pretty hard. Tanks that can seige on top of medivacs, Broodlords that fire zerglings, and Colossi that can Breakdance to shoot air units. Or you could go truely mad and make carriers viable. Even I'm not that crazy.
Of course, it's probably better to not even think of such horrible things
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On June 26 2014 09:21 Dimagus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:20 Squat wrote:
I'd just out the Reaver back in and make it do 200 damage. How about letting the Mothership core build scarabs and activate as an ability.
Still less game breaking than Photon Overcharge
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On June 26 2014 09:21 Dimagus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:20 Squat wrote:
I'd just out the Reaver back in and make it do 200 damage. How about letting the Mothership core build scarabs and activate as an ability.
Only if you give back Lurkers and Terrans can get better Siege Tanks.
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On June 26 2014 09:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:21 Dimagus wrote:On June 26 2014 09:20 Squat wrote:
I'd just out the Reaver back in and make it do 200 damage. How about letting the Mothership core build scarabs and activate as an ability. Still less game breaking than Photon Overcharge
Shots fired. From the Nexus.
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On June 26 2014 09:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On June 26 2014 09:21 Dimagus wrote:On June 26 2014 09:20 Squat wrote:
I'd just out the Reaver back in and make it do 200 damage. How about letting the Mothership core build scarabs and activate as an ability. Still less game breaking than Photon Overcharge Shots fired. From the Nexus.
For a whole 30 seconds longer than it should
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On June 26 2014 09:18 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 09:13 RatzBarcode wrote:On June 26 2014 08:58 Squat wrote:On June 26 2014 08:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So did Nesteas mechanics just get worse or did everyone use to be that bad? Both. Watch some games from 2011/early 2012, keep bleach available for rinsing of eyes. People were just bad. Serious question, why does everyone say early SC2 was bad? No one went macro? Everyone did SCV pulls and one base raven plays? No splits? Generally poor mechanics(Boxer floating 1k+ minerals on 2 bases constantly), primitive meta, no one knew how to engage properly(zerg would a-move banes into marauders, which would still work because no one spread their bio anyway). Tons of cheese, some fairly broken stuff had yet to be fixed(void ray speed comes to mind). Also the maps were beyond horrific. Blizzard maps are generally shit but the early map pools were in a league of their own.
I actually played on XNC as my first map ever. I thought it was ok, although the gold third PF was bogus. I'm also pretty sure the natural was horrifically open.
So you say that people ran banes into 'rauders. I understand if splitting was bad because people didn't think it was important or didn't practice it, but... since banes do splash. Why wouldn't you split? Banes do bonus damage to light. Why would you waste them on non-light units?
I only started watching SC2 seriously in 2013 S2, I want to emphasize I'm not being a tool on purpose but, did people really not read unit abilities and damage?
Didn't Boxer have good mechanics in BW? I suppose he was creative more than anything. You'd think that with multiple building selection, the BW pros would master the macro. Isn't that why Flash's macro is so good, it carried over from BW, while his game sense etc didn't port quite so well?
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I still don't like losers match first
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5q0kaTu.png)
