On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
My criticism is constructive, to the point where video game companies are willing to pay me to criticize their product so they can make it better
His criticism was not and is as such useless.
That's the difference. My criticism is good, his sucks
TB, not criticism but a small suggestion... when you and Artosis were talking (not in game) it would be nice to have some background music. Not for the music per se, but I think it will be a nice finishing touch. Oh! and the in-game sounds could be a liiiiitle more loud too
Again, gratz on the amazing tournament you put off, it exceeded all my expectations even considering I was hyped as hell!
On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
My criticism is constructive, to the point where video game companies are willing to pay me to criticize their product so they can make it better
His criticism was not and is as such useless.
That's the difference. My criticism is good, his sucks
TB, not criticism but a small suggestion... when you and Artosis were talking (not in game) it would be nice to have some background music. Not for the music per se, but I think it will be a nice finishing touch. Oh! and the in-game sounds could be a liiiiitle more loud too
Again, gratz on the amazing tournament you put off, it exceeded all my expectations even considering I was hyped as hell!
There was background music outside of the game all the time, what are you talking about.
On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
My criticism is constructive, to the point where video game companies are willing to pay me to criticize their product so they can make it better
His criticism was not and is as such useless.
That's the difference. My criticism is good, his sucks
That you get paid doesn't immediately invalidate the criticisms of those who don't get paid for their criticisms. In this case I agree that "casting is obnoxious" is worthless feedback that serves no purpose beyond complaining, but you're rarely willing to accept criticism, constructive or not.
With that said, I think this was a brilliantly run tournament. Aside from Bbyong and Life losing, I don't see how it could have been made much better in any particular way.
Flash winning would have made it much better. It would have put the SanDisk Invitational in the history books and been spoken of for all time to come. A stacked online tournament won by herO is cool, but one being Flash's first sc2 win is something else.
On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
My criticism is constructive, to the point where video game companies are willing to pay me to criticize their product so they can make it better
His criticism was not and is as such useless.
That's the difference. My criticism is good, his sucks
TB, not criticism but a small suggestion... when you and Artosis were talking (not in game) it would be nice to have some background music. Not for the music per se, but I think it will be a nice finishing touch. Oh! and the in-game sounds could be a liiiiitle more loud too
Again, gratz on the amazing tournament you put off, it exceeded all my expectations even considering I was hyped as hell!
There was background music outside of the game all the time, what are you talking about.
I remember hearing you both talk without background, maybe it was there but the volume was too low? I checked one VOD (too lazy to check all) and the silent background seems to be mostly in-between games -during game recap, analysis-, although I could barely hear the victory screen sounds and in-game clicks.
Dunno, just adding my 2 cents. As I said, it was an amazing tourney, 10/10 would and will watch again.
On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
My criticism is constructive, to the point where video game companies are willing to pay me to criticize their product so they can make it better
His criticism was not and is as such useless.
That's the difference. My criticism is good, his sucks
That you get paid doesn't immediately invalidate the criticisms of those who don't get paid for their criticisms. In this case I agree that "casting is obnoxious" is worthless feedback that serves no purpose beyond complaining, but you're rarely willing to accept criticism, constructive or not.
TL barely ever posts constructive criticism and worse still, most people seem unable to tell the difference. While you are correct that not being paid for your opinion does not make your opinion worthless, that's also not my point, my point is that comparing that "criticism" to the kind of criticism I do and then saying it's silly that I can dish it out but I can't take it is ridiculous. The criticism I receive is 99% bullshit, the criticism I give out is important enough to make my living from it. Forgive me if I don't have respect for people who think "the casting was obnoxious" is in any way a useful remark. Nobody gets praised for taking a shit on their keyboard and calling it "critique". You'll have to forgive me btw if I have completely had it with the bullshit caster criticism. January 2010, that's when it started. I've paid my dues and I'm really good at what I do, whether or not the vocal minority don't like what I do isn't pertinent to anything.
I remember hearing you both talk without background, maybe it was there but the volume was too low? I checked one VOD (too lazy to check all) and the silent background seems to be mostly in-between games -during game recap, analysis-, although I could barely hear the victory screen sounds and in-game clicks.
Nope, I can hear it all fine. The only silence that exists is in the few seconds it took me to update the lower third between games. In-game menu music was running otherwise everytime, or the "vs" loading theme. There was no point in the cast where bg music wasn't there under our commentary for anything longer than a few seconds. Volume levels were also fine, but then again I'm used to listening through good quality equipment, so I don't get the average experience.
TB, regarding sound levels, the in game sound does seem a bit quiet relative to caster voices. Compare, for example:
Your video:
GOM Code S:
Although the GOM volume levels are louder in general, if you turn down their volume (or turn up your volume) so the caster voices are roughly the same level, you can hear the reaper shots more clearly in the GOM video than yours.
When watching the games, I found myself choosing between having too quiet game sounds and comfortable caster voices, or audible game sounds and too loud caster voices. (I ended up choosing the former.) FYI, I'm using Sennheiser HD595 headphones.
On June 10 2014 02:41 kagamin wrote: TB, regarding sound levels, the in game sound does seem a bit quiet relative to caster voices. Compare, for example:
Although the GOM volume levels are louder in general, if you turn down their volume (or turn up your volume) so the caster voices are roughly the same level, you can hear the reaper shots more clearly in the GOM video than yours.
When watching the games, I found myself choosing between having too quiet game sounds and comfortable caster voices, or audible game sounds and too loud caster voices. (I ended up choosing the former.) FYI, I'm using Sennhesier HD595 headphones.
Studio level Compression and EQ vs no compression and EQ. Unfortunate but the reality. I don't have the equipment to replicate GOMs level of production yet, but I will look into proper hardware audio compression and EQ for future events to prevent that from happening.
How is calling anything as you see it "obnoxious"? If he means "Don't pull the SCV's Flash" he was only basically saying what everyone else was thinking at the time.
I can't ever understand why expert opinion from watching and casting years of SC is ever considered obnoxious. Is it just another "elitism" thing or is there just some deep running envy or something? It genuinely boggles my mind sometimes
On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
If myt had anything constructive to offer, I'm sure that wouldn't have been his response.
First, TB's response wasn't directed at me but imo casting is mostly a matter of style, if a caster has a certain level of beeing able to speak in public and has some game-knowledge there is not that much "constructive" to offer - it comes down to personal taste. I made only the observation, that TB is very outspoken about others but can not take any negative response to himself.
On June 09 2014 18:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just watching the re run i guess, games okay, casting is obnoxious <: had to mute -_-
Wish we could mute the LR thread, dickhead
I find it always amazing, how somebody who is so vocal and outspoken about other people/tournaments etc. is so thin skinned about criticism of his own stuff...
Anyways, nice tournament with great games, thank you for that!
My criticism is constructive, to the point where video game companies are willing to pay me to criticize their product so they can make it better
His criticism was not and is as such useless.
That's the difference. My criticism is good, his sucks
That you get paid doesn't immediately invalidate the criticisms of those who don't get paid for their criticisms. In this case I agree that "casting is obnoxious" is worthless feedback that serves no purpose beyond complaining, but you're rarely willing to accept criticism, constructive or not.
TL barely ever posts constructive criticism and worse still, most people seem unable to tell the difference. While you are correct that not being paid for your opinion does not make your opinion worthless, that's also not my point, my point is that comparing that "criticism" to the kind of criticism I do and then saying it's silly that I can dish it out but I can't take it is ridiculous. The criticism I receive is 99% bullshit, the criticism I give out is important enough to make my living from it. Forgive me if I don't have respect for people who think "the casting was obnoxious" is in any way a useful remark. Nobody gets praised for taking a shit on their keyboard and calling it "critique". You'll have to forgive me btw if I have completely had it with the bullshit caster criticism. January 2010, that's when it started. I've paid my dues and I'm really good at what I do, whether or not the vocal minority don't like what I do isn't pertinent to anything.
I remember hearing you both talk without background, maybe it was there but the volume was too low? I checked one VOD (too lazy to check all) and the silent background seems to be mostly in-between games -during game recap, analysis-, although I could barely hear the victory screen sounds and in-game clicks.
Nope, I can hear it all fine. The only silence that exists is in the few seconds it took me to update the lower third between games. In-game menu music was running otherwise everytime, or the "vs" loading theme. There was no point in the cast where bg music wasn't there under our commentary for anything longer than a few seconds. Volume levels were also fine, but then again I'm used to listening through good quality equipment, so I don't get the average experience.
hm... that type of criticism has been around since the beginning of time TB. It doesn't matter the sport or event. If you're in the public eye you know what to expect. It's not just a TL thing. Anyway, thanks again for putting on a good show. I thought the games were good quality and I'd definitely like to check out more events like this one. *tips hat*
Not sure if this info is secret or not, but I was wondering what it cost to produce that tournament (apart from the prize money paid out obv.). I was looking at the crowd-funded nation wars page where 50k euros was listed for production and was wondering how much of that carries over to an online tournament.
On June 10 2014 09:41 caznitch wrote: @ Totalbiscuit:
Not sure if this info is secret or not, but I was wondering what it cost to produce that tournament (apart from the prize money paid out obv.). I was looking at the crowd-funded nation wars page where 50k euros was listed for production and was wondering how much of that carries over to an online tournament.
The bulk of the cost of an event like that is the production and the casters. I did it for free, but maintained rights to the footage instead of taking a fee. Artosis was paid a fee. The Korean and Chinese casters did it for free and maintained rights to the footage instead of taking a fee. The production of the website cost a little money as did the production of the Sandisk ad, though I did for the voice-over for that for no charge. I made the trailers myself and the art was done by my graphic designer who I have on my payroll full time anyway. That's pretty much it, the only other cost is the prizepool. Online tournaments don't cost very much to run, it's usually a lot of opportunity cost and time-investment from me, though I try to make some of that back by monetizing the stream and the VoDs while driving subscriptions to the Twitch channel. Based on how the whole event went I'm happy with the result financially.
On June 10 2014 09:41 caznitch wrote: @ Totalbiscuit:
Not sure if this info is secret or not, but I was wondering what it cost to produce that tournament (apart from the prize money paid out obv.). I was looking at the crowd-funded nation wars page where 50k euros was listed for production and was wondering how much of that carries over to an online tournament.
The bulk of the cost of an event like that is the production and the casters. I did it for free, but maintained rights to the footage instead of taking a fee. Artosis was paid a fee. The Korean and Chinese casters did it for free and maintained rights to the footage instead of taking a fee. The production of the website cost a little money as did the production of the Sandisk ad, though I did for the voice-over for that for no charge. I made the trailers myself and the art was done by my graphic designer who I have on my payroll full time anyway. That's pretty much it, the only other cost is the prizepool. Online tournaments don't cost very much to run, it's usually a lot of opportunity cost and time-investment from me, though I try to make some of that back by monetizing the stream and the VoDs while driving subscriptions to the Twitch channel. Based on how the whole event went I'm happy with the result financially.
Thats awesome to hear and I hope we will see a repeat of this in the future
The VOD's for the Third Place Match and Grand Finals have been added to the OP! I recommend you check out some of the games if you have not already, this tournament was chock full of them.
EPT
