★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (8)
73%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
9%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
18%
11 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
9%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★- Good game (2)
9%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (18)
78%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
23 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
6%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
★★★- Good game (1)
3%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (15)
43%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (16)
46%
35 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
12%
★★★- Good game (4)
24%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (11)
65%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
10%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
20%
★★★- Good game (5)
50%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
23%
★★★- Good game (8)
62%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
15%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
29%
★★★- Good game (4)
57%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
7%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
13%
★★★- Good game (9)
60%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (3)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
15 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
11%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★★★- Good game (6)
33%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (7)
39%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
6%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
25%
★★★- Good game (2)
50%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
25%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
8%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
8%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (8)
67%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
17%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
33%
★★★- Good game (4)
44%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
22%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★- Good game (2)
8%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (21)
84%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
4%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
7%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (11)
41%
★★★- Good game (6)
22%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (8)
30%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
27 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
WCS Predictor 2014 - jjakji is at ~ 90.79 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 74.42 % of the time jjakji wins and their chances go up to ~ 96.18 %. ~ 25.58 % of the time jjakji loses and their chances go down to ~ 75.11 %. ------------------------------------------------- - YoDa is at ~ 1.14 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 47.35 % of the time YoDa wins and their chances go up to ~ 2.08 %. ~ 52.65 % of the time YoDa loses and their chances go down to ~ 0.29 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Harstem is at ~ 1.1 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 32.87 % of the time Harstem wins and their chances go up to ~ 2.62 %. ~ 67.13 % of the time Harstem loses and their chances go down to ~ 0.36 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Bunny is at ~ 4.14 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 45.36 % of the time Bunny wins and their chances go up to ~ 7.23 %. ~ 54.64 % of the time Bunny loses and their chances go down to ~ 1.57 %.
WCS EU S2 Premier - jjakji is at ~ 90.79 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 74.42 % of the time jjakji wins and their chances go up to ~ 96.18 %. ~ 25.58 % of the time jjakji loses and their chances go down to ~ 75.11 %. ------------------------------------------------- - YoDa is at ~ 1.14 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 47.35 % of the time YoDa wins and their chances go up to ~ 2.08 %. ~ 52.65 % of the time YoDa loses and their chances go down to ~ 0.29 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Harstem is at ~ 1.1 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 32.87 % of the time Harstem wins and their chances go up to ~ 2.62 %. ~ 67.13 % of the time Harstem loses and their chances go down to ~ 0.36 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Bunny is at ~ 4.14 % chances for top 16 points of 2014 ~ 45.36 % of the time Bunny wins and their chances go up to ~ 7.23 %. ~ 54.64 % of the time Bunny loses and their chances go down to ~ 1.57 %.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (8)
73%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
9%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
18%
11 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On May 21 2014 01:22 nkr wrote: what went wrong for harstem in the fight? missed storms?
That didn't help. He also backed onto his ramp where the concave was terrible for him. I think he was also supposed to have more gateways sooner, too, and thus generally have more stuff than he had.
On May 21 2014 01:22 nkr wrote: what went wrong for harstem in the fight? missed storms?
terrible positioning, got choked, not spectacular unit comp
Also wasted Storms on Vikings while the Colossi were going to die anyway.
yeah, didn't have enough stalkers to kills vikings, should have tried to storm the ground
In terms of detail on what was bad about the unit comp, really needed sentries.
edit: totally forgot about the lack of gateways...don't mean to be overly critical but a lot led to that bad fight, kind of annoyed that commentators just made it sound like everything was on point until he got smashed there
Jjakji is amazing. By far the best player in the group and most likely a top 4 player in WCS EU. Very execution dependent, struggles against top Korean aggression and well controlled late game. Anything between 88-185 he is a strategist like Polt with better mechanics.
On May 21 2014 01:28 yido wrote: Jjakji is amazing. By far the best player in the group and most likely a top 4 player in WCS EU. Very execution dependent, struggles against top Korean aggression and well controlled late game. Anything between 88-185 he is a strategist like Polt with better mechanics.
I think he's generally exploitable, though, which you hinted at. Without even looking, I figured he'd have a losing record against taeja (although the games are old) as that kind of aggression feels like it can mess with his game plans
edit: but so clean. really making harstrem a punching bag here
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★- Good game (2)
9%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (18)
78%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
23 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★- Good game (2)
9%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (18)
78%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
23 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Very well played. Frost makes it easy for toss to secure 3rd base. I think Jjakji should've went with a 14 CC on Frost to abuse Harstem's predictability.
On May 21 2014 01:47 sharkie wrote: Beating terran in late game TvP is very impressive o.O
Ye but no widow mines were made. The terrans that are winning in lategame use widow mines.
If I didn't know you I would have thought this was a subtle attempt at trolling.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Mines are useless once 3+ Colossi are on the field, and there's always that in lategame.
Oki. That is not my understanding of lategame meta in PvT. It is not what I hear on Toss streams. And it is not my experience on ladder, because scans.
On May 21 2014 01:47 sharkie wrote: Beating terran in late game TvP is very impressive o.O
Ye but no widow mines were made. The terrans that are winning in lategame use widow mines.
If I didn't know you I would have thought this was a subtle attempt at trolling.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Mines are useless once 3+ Colossi are on the field, and there's always that in lategame.
Oki. That is not my understanding of lategame meta in PvT. It is not what I hear on Toss streams. And it is not my experience on ladder, because scans.
Gonna watch the games now.
Like terrans win lategame TvP these days. Speciallly on frost/alterazim
On May 21 2014 01:58 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote: Are mines useful after the colossus are dead, if the protoss player doesn't rebuild them and goes Chargelot/Archon ?
On May 21 2014 01:58 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote: Are mines useful after the colossus are dead, if the protoss player doesn't rebuild them and goes Chargelot/Archon ?
yes but who does this?
I don't have a huge game knowledge. I just think I saw this a couple of times. Probably before the mine buff.
On May 21 2014 01:58 stuchiu wrote: Its kind of funny how the best player on EU ladder never wins WCS EU, but the best person on KR ladder often wins GSL/OSL
EU Koreans/players are too busy playing in european online leagues
KR doesn't really have those anymore (no KSL/EWM/ESV Weekly)
I think Harstem made the typical foreigner mistake of not ending it out of respecting his opponent too much... Hope it's not the case, since he played really well up until now, but Jjakji is building the counter army already
On May 21 2014 02:07 MavivaM wrote: I think Harstem made the typical foreigner mistake of not ending it out of respecting his opponent too much... Hope it's not the case, since he played really well up until now, but Jjakji is building the counter army already
He's wearing Jjakji down. At each cycle in the fight Jjakji loses like 5 supply, and cannot replenish.
Jjakji is playing really sloppy tbh. Very poor decision making backing out when it was 172-128 fight at the 3rd without storm. HUGE supply blocks twice during the last game, and even more during the 2nd game.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
★★★- Good game (1)
3%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (15)
43%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (16)
46%
35 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
this was a beautiful game of sc2 by harstem it's so hard to do. seriously what a game, what two games. this was awesome to watch really, this is like a 300% improvement from the last pvt i saw him play
On May 21 2014 02:21 sharkie wrote: The problem will be: Bunny will now go 2-0 in this group and jjakji will beat harstem in the last set of the day...
Bunny's TvT is not too good, I don't know that he can beat Yoda
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
★★★- Good game (1)
3%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (15)
43%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (16)
46%
35 total votes
Your vote: Recommend jjakji vs Harstem Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On May 21 2014 02:21 Undead1993 wrote: this was a beautiful game of sc2 by harstem it's so hard to do. seriously what a game, what two games. this was awesome to watch really, this is like a 300% improvement from the last pvt i saw him play
Yea I've never seen him play so well before. That was a clinic.
On May 21 2014 02:21 sharkie wrote: The problem will be: Bunny will now go 2-0 in this group and jjakji will beat harstem in the last set of the day...
you do not believe that Europe will hold? What is this madness?
On May 21 2014 02:21 Noonius wrote: I'm guessing, practicing is good way to prepare
A secret that has eluded foreigners for many years now. New, revolutionary science studies indicate that working hard at something will increase your chances of success.
On May 21 2014 02:21 sharkie wrote: The problem will be: Bunny will now go 2-0 in this group and jjakji will beat harstem in the last set of the day...
you do not believe that Europe will hold? What is this madness?
On May 21 2014 02:21 Noonius wrote: I'm guessing, practicing is good way to prepare
A secret that has eluded foreigners for many years now. New, revolutionary science studies indicate that working hard at something will increase your chances of success.
Having only 1 matchup to play helps as well though
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
It's not a single thing, it's a game of inches at that point, a tug of war. There were several points where Jjakji landed huge EMPs on Harstem's army, and could have taken it out.
One thing was that in both G2 and G3, Jjakji's economy was a lot weaker. If he had expanded more aggressively, he could have established economic parity and done better.
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
Play perfectly.
Protoss just move forward then back and Terran has to play impossibly well?
No, protoss has to do the same. Jjakji honestly got outcontrolled. He got an insane amount of Ghosts sniped by feedback/stalkers/colossus swipes and kept losing vikings for no reason
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
It's not a single thing, it's a game of inches at that point, a tug of war. There were several points where Jjakji landed huge EMPs on Harstem's army, and could have taken it out.
One thing was that in both G2 and G3, Jjakji's economy was a lot weaker. If he had expanded more aggressively, he could have established economic parity and done better.
Not really. Endless zealot runbys make expanding far from home almost impossible while a couple cannons and a single high templar, and endless warpins basically eliminate any threat of terrans returning the favor. PvT lategame has been this way since forever and its broken.
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
Play perfectly.
Protoss just move forward then back and Terran has to play impossibly well?
No, protoss has to do the same. Jjakji honestly got outcontrolled. He got an insane amount of Ghosts sniped by feedback/stalkers/colossus swipes and kept losing vikings for no reason
Terrans always lose a lot of ghosts, ghosts are slow
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
It's not a single thing, it's a game of inches at that point, a tug of war. There were several points where Jjakji landed huge EMPs on Harstem's army, and could have taken it out.
One thing was that in both G2 and G3, Jjakji's economy was a lot weaker. If he had expanded more aggressively, he could have established economic parity and done better.
No he couldn't engage because he just runs away and Terran can't run through storms. And he can't expand because like you saw toss just warps DT/Zealots. Still no way for Terran to answer.
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
Women killing esports
On the flip side, dinner is soon ready. I know, I was the probe that had to mine all the minerals and warp in shit sort out potatoes, minced meat, peppers, cutlery...
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
It's not a single thing, it's a game of inches at that point, a tug of war. There were several points where Jjakji landed huge EMPs on Harstem's army, and could have taken it out.
One thing was that in both G2 and G3, Jjakji's economy was a lot weaker. If he had expanded more aggressively, he could have established economic parity and done better.
No he couldn't engage because he just runs away and Terran can't run through storms. And he can't expand because like you saw toss just warps DT/Zealots. Still no way for Terran to answer.
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
Women killing esports
On the flip side, dinner is soon ready. I know, I was the probe that had to mine all the minerals and warp in shit sort out potatoes, minced meat, peppers, cutlery...
On May 21 2014 02:25 Foreverkul wrote: Was a good game, definitely good control by Harrstem, but how does Terran counter this? :/
It's not a single thing, it's a game of inches at that point, a tug of war. There were several points where Jjakji landed huge EMPs on Harstem's army, and could have taken it out.
One thing was that in both G2 and G3, Jjakji's economy was a lot weaker. If he had expanded more aggressively, he could have established economic parity and done better.
No he couldn't engage because he just runs away and Terran can't run through storms. And he can't expand because like you saw toss just warps DT/Zealots. Still no way for Terran to answer.
So basically it was a rhetorical question mark.
It's not, just the answer he gave wasn't a solution. In that game I almost thought that having tanks on high ground would work but stalker a would just blink kill them. I just don't know how a Terran could ever win that unless they godlike and can triple drop like maru or something
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
Women killing esports
On the flip side, dinner is soon ready. I know, I was the probe that had to mine all the minerals and warp in shit sort out potatoes, minced meat, peppers, cutlery...
Yeah, but if you do that the templars will get good storms regardless and protoss gets so far ahead.
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
Women killing esports
On the flip side, dinner is soon ready. I know, I was the probe that had to mine all the minerals and warp in shit sort out potatoes, minced meat, peppers, cutlery...
Yeah, but if you do that the templars will get good storms regardless and protoss gets so far ahead.
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
Women killing esports
On the flip side, dinner is soon ready. I know, I was the probe that had to mine all the minerals and warp in shit sort out potatoes, minced meat, peppers, cutlery...
Yeah, but if you do that the templars will get good storms regardless and protoss gets so far ahead.
Hard countered. Out of cooking wine, she took my expensive wine for cooking.
On May 21 2014 02:24 BaneRiders wrote: I was constantly harassed by the wife during the last map, very happy to see the outcome though! Well done Harstem!
Women killing esports
On the flip side, dinner is soon ready. I know, I was the probe that had to mine all the minerals and warp in shit sort out potatoes, minced meat, peppers, cutlery...
Yeah, but if you do that the templars will get good storms regardless and protoss gets so far ahead.
Bunny has become seriously good, looking at this and his play in the invitational thing a few days is quite impressive. His mass marine/mech play in TvZ was very interesting.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
12%
★★★- Good game (4)
24%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (11)
65%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
12%
★★★- Good game (4)
24%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (11)
65%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I was impressed, hope Bunny can pull this next game of as well. 13 scv kills before yoda can actually do anything and then the constant trading and harassement, the BC switch in the perfect moment (1 min later and he would have lost a lot more cause he couldn't maintain air dominance)
Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
RIP Major. No one ever remembers your existence until you beat Stardust, Oz, Welmu, Serral, KingKong, Lucky, Symbol, Elfi, 2-3 vs Jjakji, Harstem, Taeja, Kane, Scarlett, BBYONG Polt.
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
Major is practicing furiously in abandoned Maya ruins in the most remote parts of Mexico. Soon he will make his triumphant return to Root. Again.
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
RIP Major. No one ever remembers your existence until you beat Stardust, Oz, Welmu, Serral, KingKong, Lucky, Symbol, Elfi, 2-3 vs Jjakji, Harstem, Taeja, Kane, Scarlett, BBYONG Polt.
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
RIP Major. No one ever remembers your existence until you beat Stardust, Oz, Welmu, Serral, KingKong, Lucky, Symbol, Elfi, 2-3 vs Jjakji, Harstem, Taeja, Kane, Scarlett, BBYONG Polt.
He's out of action after Demuslim hit him with his genitals
On May 21 2014 02:46 vult wrote: Honestly, I considered Bunny, along with Dayshi, to be the two best foreign Terrans for a while now, but then again there arent really that many foreign terrans
RIP Major. No one ever remembers your existence until you beat Stardust, Oz, Welmu, Serral, KingKong, Lucky, Symbol, Elfi, 2-3 vs Jjakji, Harstem, Taeja, Kane, Scarlett, BBYONG Polt.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
20%
★★★- Good game (5)
50%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
23%
★★★- Good game (8)
62%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
15%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
23%
★★★- Good game (8)
62%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
15%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bunny vs YoDa Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On May 21 2014 03:21 sharkie wrote: I pity the loser of harstem vs bunny.
You play one of the best series in your life to beat a Korean just to have to beat another one...
True, unless the loser decides to show his huge balls of steel once again and beat the korean opponent. According to how the day is going, unless Jjakji goes full throttle there's a huge chance of upset if Harstem goes in loser's match (Bunny's TvT vs Jjakji's TvT doesn't look like a good thing, but who knows)
On May 21 2014 03:27 Circumstance wrote: Don't even pretend you wouldn't be losing your mind if that IEM final was a TvT and someone went for 11/11 2 games in a row.
11/11 sucks in TvT. What the hell are you talking about?
On May 21 2014 03:27 Circumstance wrote: Don't even pretend you wouldn't be losing your mind if that IEM final was a TvT and someone went for 11/11 2 games in a row.
11/11 sucks in TvT. What the hell are you talking about?
You don't like that cheese? Fine, 8 rax Reaper then, like the one MMA did at Blizzcon against Bomber. If someone did that 2 games in a row in that situation, what would the reaction be then?
On May 21 2014 03:27 Circumstance wrote: Don't even pretend you wouldn't be losing your mind if that IEM final was a TvT and someone went for 11/11 2 games in a row.
11/11 sucks in TvT. What the hell are you talking about?
I have fond memories of proxy marauders in MKP's natural
On May 21 2014 03:27 Circumstance wrote: Don't even pretend you wouldn't be losing your mind if that IEM final was a TvT and someone went for 11/11 2 games in a row.
11/11 sucks in TvT. What the hell are you talking about?
Even Maru used it only once against Bogus in that OSL semi-finals.
On May 21 2014 03:07 Squat wrote: That's what happens when you stack lots of terrans in a group, you get great games. Funny how that works.
That's what happens when a race you like has many matches, you like the matches. Funny how that works.
How many people do you know that dislike TvT? Best mirror by far, maybe best MU period.
So much wrong with that sentence
Yeah the maybe part was a little off, I admit.
If you're going to be this guy at least don't pretend you respect other people's opinions in the next post.
I think TvT is the best mirror. I stated so. Feel free to disagree. My having a different opinion does not preclude respecting someone else's, especially as everything here is being said tongue in cheek. You are being incredibly oversensitive, it's just an opinion.
On May 21 2014 03:07 Squat wrote: That's what happens when you stack lots of terrans in a group, you get great games. Funny how that works.
That's what happens when a race you like has many matches, you like the matches. Funny how that works.
How many people do you know that dislike TvT? Best mirror by far, maybe best MU period.
So much wrong with that sentence
Yeah the maybe part was a little off, I admit.
If you're going to be this guy at least don't pretend you respect other people's opinions in the next post.
I think TvT is the best mirror. I stated so. Feel free to disagree. My having a different opinion does not preclude respecting someone else's, especially as everything here is being said tongue in cheek. You are being incredibly oversensitive, it's just an opinion.
So you agree with my first quote. I'm sorry, it wasn't apparent due to the fact that you quoted it and then argued against it. Next time I will see what you mean to say instead of what you say.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
29%
★★★- Good game (4)
57%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On May 21 2014 03:27 Circumstance wrote: Don't even pretend you wouldn't be losing your mind if that IEM final was a TvT and someone went for 11/11 2 games in a row.
11/11 sucks in TvT. What the hell are you talking about?
You don't like that cheese? Fine, 8 rax Reaper then, like the one MMA did at Blizzcon against Bomber. If someone did that 2 games in a row in that situation, what would the reaction be then?
I'm trying very hard to think of a finals where it was semi-interesting where a player cheesed twice in a row with the same build with no build up of a mind game.
There was MC vs Seed. - bad. Inca vs Nestea - bad MMA vs Polt - bad Leenock vs Naniwa - bad
The only one that was even somewhat okay-ish was Nestea vs MKP because Nestea somehow won a proxy position 11/11. A distance so close that the distance from main to natural of Alterzim is almost as big as it.
I don't know why you think its a special case of me hating on PvP specifically, most cheesing series are just boring unless there is an actual mind game behind it (ala Mvp vs Squirtle/DRG vs Life).
On May 21 2014 03:27 Circumstance wrote: Don't even pretend you wouldn't be losing your mind if that IEM final was a TvT and someone went for 11/11 2 games in a row.
11/11 sucks in TvT. What the hell are you talking about?
I have fond memories of proxy marauders in MKP's natural
I'm fond of Keen and Gumiho proxying reapering each other at the exact same time.
On May 21 2014 03:43 stuchiu wrote: Hahhahaha Harstem, the hell was that.
Interesting, there might be a sliver of an opening if you force early enough overcharge to slip in when mothership doesnt have energy for another, and Protoss is forced to close that gap in the opening by spending more resources in (more) units and/or cannons.
Looking forward to punish Protoss that delays mothership core even by little on ladder.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
13%
★★★- Good game (9)
60%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (3)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
15 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Harstem said he was like 1-21 vs Jjakji in ladder, I would imagine he played the time of his life in his first series while Jjakji didn't. So, I think the best chance to see two foreigners advance is for Harstem to win, although it still would be relatively low.
On May 21 2014 03:56 SniXSniPe wrote: Harstem said he was like 1-21 vs Jjakji in ladder, I would imagine he played the time of his life in his first series while Jjakji didn't. So, I think the best chance to see two foreigners advance is for Harstem to win, although it still would be relatively low.
Thing is would you want to beat jjakji in ladder games before playing him in WCS? I kinda wouldnt, so jjakji gets complacent and then not prepare anything against me.
On May 21 2014 03:58 Wintex wrote: what the fuck korea
To be fair, Yoda just making it to Premier is like double my expectation of him.
it's sad, he won that IEM tournament making me think, "wow, maybe MVP was being honest when he said he thinks YoDa is the best!", and now a a year or so later he struggles so hard to make Premier league in Europe (no knock on Europeans, I really think the gap is closing hard).
On May 21 2014 03:56 SniXSniPe wrote: Harstem said he was like 1-21 vs Jjakji in ladder, I would imagine he played the time of his life in his first series while Jjakji didn't. So, I think the best chance to see two foreigners advance is for Harstem to win, although it still would be relatively low.
Thing is would you want to beat jjakji in ladder games before playing him in WCS? I kinda wouldnt, so jjakji gets complacent and then not prepare anything against me.
I would imagine the majority of those games were before he knew he would play jjakji. Even so, it's jjakji... you would figure jjakji is favored against any European protoss (except maybe Naniwa a while back).
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★★★- Good game (6)
33%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (7)
39%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
6%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★★★- Good game (6)
33%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (7)
39%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
6%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I think Hasuobs will study these games... imagine a guy with his late game control to add an insta warp prism counterattack everytime the opponent pushes Wp Harstem
On May 21 2014 04:12 catabowl wrote: Got to love 1 spell that can literally "win" the game. One forcefield gives Harstem the win.
That's a feature of the map, get over it. Bunny knew that was a possibility when he chose that strategy, which he wasn't obligated to do. Blame him for doing it, not Harstem.
On May 21 2014 04:17 Circumstance wrote: Wait, Harstem was saying he never beat Jjakji on ladder, and he thought he was the only player in the group he'd beat?
As I mentioned before, he probably lost to jjakji on purpose...
On May 21 2014 04:20 Circumstance wrote: If Qxc and Major helped Harstem prepare for Jjakji and Yoda, he'd better be helping them prepare for MacSed and Oz.
On May 21 2014 04:20 Circumstance wrote: If Qxc and Major helped Harstem prepare for Jjakji and Yoda, he'd better be helping them prepare for MacSed and Oz.
On May 21 2014 04:20 Aeromi wrote: ToD created a Skype group with pros for customs games. There is around 40 pros on this group, Harstem is the one who is looking the most for customs.
That's a very smart thing to do. I always thought that the reason why Korea moves so much faster is because the players share knowledge a lot more, not just in their team house environments but also beyond them
On May 21 2014 04:20 Aeromi wrote: ToD created a Skype group with pros for customs games. There is around 40 pros on this group, Harstem is the one who is looking the most for customs.
ToD never invited me to tell them that that easiest way to beat Naniwa in a bo3 is to win the first game with a triple hatch before pool build, then 10 pool his proxy 2 gate
man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
On May 21 2014 04:20 Aeromi wrote: ToD created a Skype group with pros for customs games. There is around 40 pros on this group, Harstem is the one who is looking the most for customs.
That's a very smart thing to do. I always thought that the reason why Korea moves so much faster is because the players share knowledge a lot more, not just in their team house environments but also beyond them
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
On May 21 2014 04:20 Aeromi wrote: ToD created a Skype group with pros for customs games. There is around 40 pros on this group, Harstem is the one who is looking the most for customs.
ToD never invited me to tell them that that easiest way to beat Naniwa in a bo3 is to win the first game with a triple hatch before pool build, then 10 pool his proxy 2 gate
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
Agreed. Year of harstem is just a meme in the foreigner community kind of poking fun at his underdog status, not because of his results.
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
He has been around for a long time, and has gotten a few notable wins. Lets not pretend like most other foreigners are pulling good results (outside of a small handful)
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
Agreed. Yeah of harstem is just a meme in the foreigner community kind of poking fun at his underdog status, not because of his results.
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
So Dayshi is a random Terran ? :D
Kindof, but he is terran, kinda difficult to achieve anything these days.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
25%
★★★- Good game (2)
50%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
25%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
this really doesnt look like the jjakji were used to seeing, this is like back in his old slump days before that code S run last year... and yoda too, he looked really good back when he won iem :L
though harstems definatly deserved the first place finish today, really good lategame PvT, you can see he wasnt joking about 300 odd games :L
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
Then who isnt a random protoss eu? except mana winning a dreamhack 2 years ago.
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
Then who isnt a random protoss eu? except mana winning a dreamhack 2 years ago.
If you've never achieved anything, then you are automatically not allowed to achieve anything because hey, why would someone without achievements be able to achieve anything?
There's a minor flaw in this way of thinking, though...
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
Then who isnt a random protoss eu? except mana winning a dreamhack 2 years ago.
On May 21 2014 04:22 SpikeStarcraft wrote: man so many dick questions... harstem is not that much of an underdog or unknown player as they make it out to be. He was a bit unlucky not getting into WCS but he's definetely one of the top non korean protosses and at least very popular in the german scene..
No, he really was some random protoss eu. He never achieved anything.
Then who isnt a random protoss eu? except mana winning a dreamhack 2 years ago.
San. MC. Stardust.
non koreans.
Stardust speaks english, lives in EU, plays on EU. What more do you want?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
8%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (8)
67%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
17%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
33%
★★★- Good game (4)
44%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
22%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
8%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (8)
67%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
17%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
33%
★★★- Good game (4)
44%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
22%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Just went back from girlfriend's. Harstem is first in his group.... Oh sheeeeeet boy ! Looks like i wasn't the only one having a good time ! GG man...Zanster will never get the fnatic captain' title now ahah.
Beats a Korean Terran in his first match, loses to a Protoss in the Winner's Match, rematches the same Korean Terran in the decider. Can Bunny hold, or will he pull the full Major?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On May 21 2014 05:20 Heartland wrote: Isn't there an EG american Terran?
Xeno is still in high school.
I'm still waiting for a Xeno vs Heromarine show match. There can only be one 16 year old, foreign terran hope.
honestly i think heromarine is massively better than xenocider. heromarine has the potential to be an absolute bease. xeno is more like a good mid tier player, but not outstanding.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★- Good game (2)
8%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (21)
84%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
4%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On May 21 2014 05:43 boxerfred wrote: What about this "he bumped into korean terrans in previous WCS seasons" - Apollo? Did Bunny always manage to die against those?
On May 21 2014 05:48 aZealot wrote: Holy crap, Harstem! I did not think he would make it out of the group.
I guess the 300 PvT practice games he played over the last week really paid off!
How did he play? Can anyone tell me?
Well, he played the same build every game. Went two base extremly defensivly with a forge, going for Colossus. Taking his Third quite late, having 2-3 Colossus and then switching to Templar. Slow-pushing across the map and slowly drying Terran out, not allowing them to take a fifth. Never attacking.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (11)
41%
★★★- Good game (6)
22%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (8)
30%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
27 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
As far as this series goes, I really wish Jjakji should've advanced. Neither of these players is being impressive. Sad to see Bunny going down this way though. Well, there's always next season.
On May 21 2014 05:59 boxerfred wrote: As far as this series goes, I really wish Jjakji should've advanced. Neither of these players is being impressive. Sad to see Bunny going down this way though. Well, there's always next season.
To be fair, JJ was even more terrible. Atleast today
On May 21 2014 06:01 Dingodile wrote: bunny would have won easily if yoda didn't scan.
In hindsight, loading the drop was probably a bad idea considering Yoda's habit of running everything into siege tank lines. Probably could have won that fight there if he just idled.
As for me, this was a shit day of starcraft. Watching Bbyong not building anything vs. Classic's high tech units into watching Bunny, well, going full foreigner. Good night everyone.
Bunny's mindset: "I am on 4 mining bases. My opponent only 3. Better go for a doom drop and lose my super awesome defending position with superior tank count."
Arrrrgh! I'll never understand why Bunny almost NEVER builds Missile Turrets near his mineral lines, it was mostly due to that that he lost his games!!! T_T
I mean dude, if you get spotted buildin' 'shees, better expect some cover vs that and then you should obv make sure YOU are covered yourself! >_>
On May 21 2014 06:04 sharkie wrote: Bunny's mindset: "I am on 4 mining bases. My opponent only 3. Better go for a doom drop and lose my super awesome defending position with superior tank count."
He went full foreigner. You never go full foreigner.
On May 21 2014 06:04 sharkie wrote: Bunny's mindset: "I am on 4 mining bases. My opponent only 3. Better go for a doom drop and lose my super awesome defending position with superior tank count."
Bunny's mindset: "I have an advantage, I want to win the game now so my opponent doesn't have any chance to recover." YoDa's mindset: "Nope son."
On May 21 2014 06:41 deacon.frost wrote: Was there any interview on Skype with Yoda?
Judging from his tweet, I'm really unsure his English would allow it.
Well he could say just something like - I am happy, I want to thank my fans. Just something prepared in advance, not an interview per se but something. Can you imagine "No comment", that would be hilarious :-)
THough I understand he does not want to show his level of English
And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
Yeah, because I am sure players would love to play Jjajki in a loser's match instead of playing Harstem in the winner's. Saving strats only works if the best player in the group is unbeatable and the worse can never beat anyone. Otherwise, there is a huge risk to losing the first series. As we can see tonight, no one is unbeatable... So no, this is not an issue at all.
On May 21 2014 11:58 metzninja wrote: Poor Bunny, had such a great position in game 3 Good luck next time.
Also, well played Harstem!
Bunny already has been put into 2 very difficult groups already in WCS, first with Mvp and MMA, and now with Yoda and Jjakji. Only by playing the most difficult opponents does one improve. He's getting there
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
that is how playoffs work. if you're playing a best of five in baseball for example you can win 20-0 in the first two games and then lose the next three games 4-3. does that mean you deserved to win? no. you have to win a match. that's what playoffs are.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
Do you really want extended series...? We've already seen how stupid it is.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
Bunny goes 1-2 in series Yoda goes 2-1 in series, Yoda is better thats how it works. Can believe theres still people complaining about the ancient format of dual tournament
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
it's not about how they scored against each other it's about how they scored vs the entire group. done.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
Bunny goes 1-2 in series Yoda goes 2-1 in series, Yoda is better thats how it works. Can believe theres still people complaining about the ancient format of dual tournament
I don't understand it either.
If this argument makes sense, then players would be trying to lose their first series to play the "worse" opponent(theoretically) in the loser's bracket instead of winning Rd 1 to get into the winners bracket.
Until I see a player purposely forfeit their 1st match, I'm going to assume that getting into the winner's bracket is preferable per what's known as "common sense."
On May 21 2014 07:39 mawrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
that is how playoffs work. if you're playing a best of five in baseball for example you can win 20-0 in the first two games and then lose the next three games 4-3. does that mean you deserved to win? no. you have to win a match. that's what playoffs are.
But bunny and yoda only played a bo2. If yoda had won two series vs bunny, no one would complain :p bad comparison ^^
its more like baseball one team won 2-1, then the other team won 2-1 and advanced because? :p
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
It's a double elimination format, Bunny lost 2 series, Yoda lost 1 series. Who cares what their records against each other were.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
It's a double elimination format, Bunny lost 2 series, Yoda lost 1 series. Who cares what their records against each other were.
Yes, double elimination. Where is Bunny's 2nd chance?
Winning your first match always gives you an advantage in advancing.
W is win, L is loss. X is not needed (so always 1).
Winning your first match, your chances of advancing are (W*X) + (L*W). That is, a win in the winner's match, or losing in the winner's match and winning in the final match.
That will always be greater than the chances of the loser of that first match. His probability is only W*W, which is a win in both remaining matches.
Say there is a 4 terran group with the following TvT winrates A: 50% B: 50% C: 90% D: 10%
A vs B C vs D
If we are player A, we can either win or lose the first match against B.
Assuming we win, our odds are (.3571*1) + (.6429*0.5) = .6786
Assuming we lose, our odds are (0.8333*0.5) = 0.4167
I am too lazy to prove this mathematically for all possible winrates, but I am pretty sure that winning your first match already gives you a statistical advantage (I did it for a few other scenarios). Claims that winning the first match gives no advantage are false. You do gain an advantage and there is no reason to give another advantage when entering the final match.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
Do you really want extended series...? We've already seen how stupid it is.
Do you want DH Coin toss tournament rules with Bischu being seeded into the final? Ofc. there are always worse systems, but there are also better. There is a reason, that most sports leagues (for example Football world championship, Ice Hockey World championship, Olympics) use round robin.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
Bunny goes 1-2 in series Yoda goes 2-1 in series, Yoda is better thats how it works. Can believe theres still people complaining about the ancient format of dual tournament
Bunny played against different people then YoDa, so their records are not comparable and 2-1 against weaker players (route over losers match) is not neccessarily better than 1-2 against stronger. Ofc. In this particular group that isn't really the case, since Jjakji should be considered stronger than Harstem, but in general it is a problem. Regarding your second argument: "I can't believe people are still arguing over the ancient laws of Code of Hammurapi". It is bad and it was always bad. That's why people are arguing against it for more than a year now.
On May 21 2014 07:39 marcesr wrote: And every fucking goup its the same problem, I just hate this group system. Bunny vs Yoda ends 3-3 and even in BO3, how can one guy advance over the other??? Its so retarded, players might consider saving their best strats in the first BO3 in case they have to play the same opponent again.
it's not about how they scored against each other it's about how they scored vs the entire group. done.
None of them played against the entire group. How can you measure their performance against the entire group when none of them played the entire group? Well, ofc. you could let them play the entire group, but that is Round Robin and thus another (better) format.
On May 21 2014 17:34 lichter wrote: Winning your first match always gives you an advantage in advancing.
W is win, L is loss. X is not needed (so always 1).
Winning your first match, your chances of advancing are (W*X) + (L*W). That is, a win in the winner's match, or losing in the winner's match and winning in the final match.
That will always be greater than the chances of the loser of that first match. His probability is only W*W, which is a win in both remaining matches.
Say there is a 4 terran group with the following TvT winrates A: 50% B: 50% C: 90% D: 10%
A vs B C vs D
If we are player A, we can either win or lose the first match against B.
Assuming we win, our odds are (.3571*1) + (.6429*0.5) = .6786
Assuming we lose, our odds are (0.8333*0.5) = 0.4167
I am too lazy to prove this mathematically for all possible winrates, but I am pretty sure that winning your first match already gives you a statistical advantage (I did it for a few other scenarios). Claims that winning the first match gives no advantage are false. You do gain an advantage and there is no reason to give another advantage when entering the final match.
Winning the first match gives you a 20% advantadge over the loser of the first match. Ofc. that advantadge will grow if you adjust thw in ratesof C and D, but it will never rise above 50%(0,75-0,25) in groups with one MU, assuming the favored player in C vs D wins. Winning the second match however gives you not a 20-50% advantadge, but a 100% advantadge over the other player.
On May 21 2014 22:58 Nebuchad wrote: The group isn't a group. It's a bracket with winner and loser bracket. Bunny beat Yoda in the winner bracket. Yoda beat Bunny in the loser bracket.
Happens all the time.
Yes, it happens all the time. And I am complaining about it all the time, because double-elim is just bad for 4 players. Telling me how the system works, does not make the system better.
On May 21 2014 22:58 Nebuchad wrote: The group isn't a group. It's a bracket with winner and loser bracket. Bunny beat Yoda in the winner bracket. Yoda beat Bunny in the loser bracket.
Happens all the time.
Yes, it happens all the time. And I am complaining about it all the time, because double-elim is just bad for 4 players. Telling me how the system works, does not make the system better.
It does in the sense that it contradicts the notion that this system is unfair, which is the main argument against it.
On May 21 2014 22:58 Nebuchad wrote: The group isn't a group. It's a bracket with winner and loser bracket. Bunny beat Yoda in the winner bracket. Yoda beat Bunny in the loser bracket.
Happens all the time.
Yes, it happens all the time. And I am complaining about it all the time, because double-elim is just bad for 4 players. Telling me how the system works, does not make the system better.
It does in the sense that it contradicts the notion that this system is unfair, which is the main argument against it.
Only with the implication, that double elimination is fair, which would lead to the same discssion, we are already having. Look at it that way: We can all agree, that your placement in a single elim. tourney is hugely dependent on your bracket, thus single elim isn't really fair in the traditional sence. Double elim is basically single elim with one more life, it still is not really a fair system, as your placement is still dependent on who you are playing in both Winners and Losers bracket. Why is double elim still played then? Because with good seeding you can improve it to a certain extend and mainly because it is quicker and easier to schedule than Round Robin or Swiss System. Running a league format in a 128-player MLG would be ridiculos, and thus Double elim has it's rightful place there. But in a 4 man group, the advantadges it has are pretty much gone, since a 4 man RR only has one more game than a 4 man double elim. So why would one use it in the situation, where it's main strengh is gone, but it's weaknesses remain?
On May 22 2014 01:07 Bagration wrote: There is no perfect group system. But the one that we have for WCS and GSL is fine and works well.
That is a matter of opinion. The first part is probably true in a world with humans playing (If it would be computers, who aren't influenced by other results, RR would be pretty much perfect.) I strongly disagree with the second part though.
On May 22 2014 03:53 Xoronius wrote: Only with the implication, that double elimination is fair, which would lead to the same discssion, we are already having. Look at it that way: We can all agree, that your placement in a single elim. tourney is hugely dependent on your bracket, thus single elim isn't really fair in the traditional sence. Double elim is basically single elim with one more life, it still is not really a fair system, as your placement is still dependent on who you are playing in both Winners and Losers bracket. Why is double elim still played then? Because with good seeding you can improve it to a certain extend and mainly because it is quicker and easier to schedule than Round Robin or Swiss System. Running a league format in a 128-player MLG would be ridiculos, and thus Double elim has it's rightful place there. But in a 4 man group, the advantadges it has are pretty much gone, since a 4 man RR only has one more game than a 4 man double elim. So why would one use it in the situation, where it's main strengh is gone, but it's weaknesses remain?
But your reasoning for why it is unfair in a 4man group is still appliable to the round robin of a 4man group. Being placed in a 4man group implies this type of "unfairness", as you are fighting three specific people instead of the whole player pool, and maybe you would have done better against three other opponents in another group, so the seeding problem is the same no matter which type of confrontation you choose.
On May 22 2014 03:53 Xoronius wrote: Only with the implication, that double elimination is fair, which would lead to the same discssion, we are already having. Look at it that way: We can all agree, that your placement in a single elim. tourney is hugely dependent on your bracket, thus single elim isn't really fair in the traditional sence. Double elim is basically single elim with one more life, it still is not really a fair system, as your placement is still dependent on who you are playing in both Winners and Losers bracket. Why is double elim still played then? Because with good seeding you can improve it to a certain extend and mainly because it is quicker and easier to schedule than Round Robin or Swiss System. Running a league format in a 128-player MLG would be ridiculos, and thus Double elim has it's rightful place there. But in a 4 man group, the advantadges it has are pretty much gone, since a 4 man RR only has one more game than a 4 man double elim. So why would one use it in the situation, where it's main strengh is gone, but it's weaknesses remain?
The reason GSL doesn't use round robin is pretty simple: It doesn't produce exactly 6 games. It produces a minimum of 6 games.
Then you are left with either never ending tie-breakers or a coinflip decision. I hope it's pretty clear why neither will work in reality. And don't think it won't happen often because it will. There are only two outcomes for a Bo3 starcraft match; 2-0 or 2-1. It might work in other sports where the scores are diverse enough to make ties ocur only very rarely, but it's just happens too often with Bo3 matches.
On May 22 2014 03:53 Xoronius wrote: Only with the implication, that double elimination is fair, which would lead to the same discssion, we are already having. Look at it that way: We can all agree, that your placement in a single elim. tourney is hugely dependent on your bracket, thus single elim isn't really fair in the traditional sence. Double elim is basically single elim with one more life, it still is not really a fair system, as your placement is still dependent on who you are playing in both Winners and Losers bracket. Why is double elim still played then? Because with good seeding you can improve it to a certain extend and mainly because it is quicker and easier to schedule than Round Robin or Swiss System. Running a league format in a 128-player MLG would be ridiculos, and thus Double elim has it's rightful place there. But in a 4 man group, the advantadges it has are pretty much gone, since a 4 man RR only has one more game than a 4 man double elim. So why would one use it in the situation, where it's main strengh is gone, but it's weaknesses remain?
But your reasoning for why it is unfair in a 4man group is still appliable to the round robin of a 4man group. Being placed in a 4man group implies this type of "unfairness", as you are fighting three specific people instead of the whole player pool, and maybe you would have done better against three other opponents in another group, so the seeding problem is the same no matter which type of confrontation you choose.
To a certain extend yes. But having a league system with 32 players would produce 496 series instead of the current 67, which is just unrealistic. I'm talking about the general comparism of league/round robin vs elimination systems and specific advantadges/disadvantadges do not change if you narrow the player pool down to 4 (Just doing this, because 4-man groups are pretty established in a lot of competition).
On May 22 2014 03:53 Xoronius wrote: Only with the implication, that double elimination is fair, which would lead to the same discssion, we are already having. Look at it that way: We can all agree, that your placement in a single elim. tourney is hugely dependent on your bracket, thus single elim isn't really fair in the traditional sence. Double elim is basically single elim with one more life, it still is not really a fair system, as your placement is still dependent on who you are playing in both Winners and Losers bracket. Why is double elim still played then? Because with good seeding you can improve it to a certain extend and mainly because it is quicker and easier to schedule than Round Robin or Swiss System. Running a league format in a 128-player MLG would be ridiculos, and thus Double elim has it's rightful place there. But in a 4 man group, the advantadges it has are pretty much gone, since a 4 man RR only has one more game than a 4 man double elim. So why would one use it in the situation, where it's main strengh is gone, but it's weaknesses remain?
The reason GSL doesn't use round robin is pretty simple: It doesn't produce exactly 6 games. It produces a minimum of 6 games.
Then you are left with either never ending tie-breakers or a coinflip decision. I hope it's pretty clear why neither will work in reality. And don't think it won't happen often because it will. There are only two outcomes for a Bo3 starcraft match; 2-0 or 2-1. It might work in other sports where the scores are diverse enough to make ties ocur only very rarely, but it's just happens too often with Bo3 matches.
Is having the order of wins deciding who moves on that much different from a coinflip? I'd rather have long tie-breakers with a deserving winner then an unlucky player, who won the direct comparism 3-2, but in the wrong order and had to face a much harder opponent in the second match. Alternatively you could make the matches bo5, since you can have 2 at the same time on different streams and thus only 3 after eachother.
On May 22 2014 03:53 Xoronius wrote: Only with the implication, that double elimination is fair, which would lead to the same discssion, we are already having. Look at it that way: We can all agree, that your placement in a single elim. tourney is hugely dependent on your bracket, thus single elim isn't really fair in the traditional sence. Double elim is basically single elim with one more life, it still is not really a fair system, as your placement is still dependent on who you are playing in both Winners and Losers bracket. Why is double elim still played then? Because with good seeding you can improve it to a certain extend and mainly because it is quicker and easier to schedule than Round Robin or Swiss System. Running a league format in a 128-player MLG would be ridiculos, and thus Double elim has it's rightful place there. But in a 4 man group, the advantadges it has are pretty much gone, since a 4 man RR only has one more game than a 4 man double elim. So why would one use it in the situation, where it's main strengh is gone, but it's weaknesses remain?
The reason GSL doesn't use round robin is pretty simple: It doesn't produce exactly 6 games. It produces a minimum of 6 games.
Then you are left with either never ending tie-breakers or a coinflip decision. I hope it's pretty clear why neither will work in reality. And don't think it won't happen often because it will. There are only two outcomes for a Bo3 starcraft match; 2-0 or 2-1. It might work in other sports where the scores are diverse enough to make ties ocur only very rarely, but it's just happens too often with Bo3 matches.
Is having the order of wins deciding who moves on that much different from a coinflip? I'd rather have long tie-breakers with a deserving winner then an unlucky player, who won the direct comparism 3-2, but in the wrong order and had to face a much harder opponent in the second match. Alternatively you could make the matches bo5, since you can have 2 at the same time on different streams and thus only 3 after eachother.
So the players tie and then what determine who is moving on is based on their results against other opponents. The order of who wins isn't what determines it, who else they beat/lost to is. Of course the issue is then that they didn't face the same opponents, but having two chances at advancing will always be better than one.
And you might want long tie-breaker that go on all night, but obviously any production company doing starcraft would try to avoid such situations. 5 Bo3s can already take wildly varying amounts of time I think I've seen days going from 2 hours up to nearly 5. Expanding that to be anywhere from 6 to infinity Bo3s isn't feasible. They tried it with up-n-downs and having tie-breakers played was almost as much the rule as it was the exception.
EPT
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WCS EU
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WCS_IT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png)
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jjakji vs 
Harstem ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4369.jpg)
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I like that
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