On March 14 2014 18:16 NovaMB wrote: I guess you watched a different game to everybody else then?
JD did nothing for 30 Minutes while Hasu tried to kill bases and get his ultimate army. JD went blind Swarm Hosts vs. a normal Gateway+Colossus composition and forced Hasu into the lategame and into that playstyle
Hasu went colo/sentry/blink stalkers. The best/safest response vs that IS swarm host.
Other opinions are
1) early roach/hydra bust - If protoss has enough colossi out and hits there FFs and time wraps, this gets shut down 2) later roach/hydra/corruptor/viper bust - Again, it will come down to the control protoss. If your vipers don't get good pulls, your army get run over because the colossi count is much higher now. 3) Mutas - protoss just defends using stalkers and start with phoenix production 4) Fast hive to ultras, they is really good if unscount, but if protoss sees it coming, they just switch to immortals
A lot of these opinions depend on protoss making a mistake so that is why a lot of zergs end up going swarm hosts.
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
So Swarm Hosts are shit, but Tempests aren't?
When I watched that game, I saw 2 players turtling, not 1. Hell, Jaedong was trying to make more stuff happen with his Roach harass, as unfruitful as it was.
If Swarm Hosts are bad because they lead to turtling games, what are Tempests?
Here's another question people should be asking. In WoL everyone blamed BL/Infestor for the state of PvZ, it got nerfed into the ground, and now everyone is blaming Swarm Hosts. How come it's always the Protoss matchups that end this way?
Does the Protoss deathball basically being unbeatable without a massively defensive, extremely cost efficient army, and as Jaedong vs Hasu showed, even with such an army sometimes, have nothing to do with the way PvZ tends to go eventually?
Please, show me, where I wrote that tempests are lovable or something like this.
Also, you can't just stand above cannons and do nothing, like you can do with swarm hosts. Therefore in my view SH are more shitty than tempest. And I really hate both units, though they are answer on "woo, free units, you cannot walk and here, have some glue, so you cannot even blink" from WoL. I personally think, that free units are just very bad design from Blizzard and since tempest has such a huge range, I count it into the "free units" even though it's not breaking pathing system and it's not using free units at all.
BTW BL/infestor was played even in TvZ, so please, it's not about PvZ only :o)
BL Infestor was not played the same way in TvZ, it was used to just push and end a game, whereas in PvZ it turned into a standoff with tons of static defense. It's no coincidence that it's always PvZ that ends this way.
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
yeah i love it too when the game gets into late game and protoss has ultimate deathball of doom and swarmhostless zerg loses
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
oh you mean when protoss lets tons of lings into his main and natural, doesnt make a 4th and still almost wins?
Well I'm glad you watched the entire game in a minute
I guess he already watched that game before...
As for the swarmhost being boring, I think everyone agrees. However, they are needed. A lot of players also feel Photon overcharge and time wrap and forcefields are boring as well. But again, they are needed for 'balance'...
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
oh you mean when protoss lets tons of lings into his main and natural, doesnt make a 4th and still almost wins?
Stop shitting up this thread please
Swarmhost games in ZvP are mostly terrible but there are games and strategies that are ridiculously fun and fast paced to watch and play. Even WITH swarmhosts every now and then. NO WAY RIGHT?!
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
oh you mean when protoss lets tons of lings into his main and natural, doesnt make a 4th and still almost wins?
Well I'm glad you watched the entire game in a minute
That game was exciting because Rain made so many mistakes, I don't see how you can really debate that. Had he not made those mistakes he would have taken a 4th, gotten stargates up, and had the ability to counter the muta follow up and won easily.
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
oh you mean when protoss lets tons of lings into his main and natural, doesnt make a 4th and still almost wins?
Well I'm glad you watched the entire game in a minute
That game was exciting because Rain made so many mistakes, I don't see how you can really debate that. Had he not made those mistakes he would have taken a 4th, gotten starports up, and had the ability to counter the muta follow up and won easily.
You could easily make the argument that most players wouldn't have gotten lings into Rain's bases and that Rogue being pretty good at Starcraft is what allowed him to. But people prefer to call everything throws. I think people are very biased against PvZ because they've seen a bunch of terrible games and thus can't appreciate a game of PvZ when it's actually good. It's fine to think that the game wasn't good, but saying it was all about the lings and nothing else is selling it pretty short
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
oh you mean when protoss lets tons of lings into his main and natural, doesnt make a 4th and still almost wins?
Well I'm glad you watched the entire game in a minute
That game was exciting because Rain made so many mistakes, I don't see how you can really debate that. Had he not made those mistakes he would have taken a 4th, gotten starports up, and had the ability to counter the muta follow up and won easily.
THIS. I don't think anyone is trying to say ALL swarmhost games are boring. The problem is more that standard swarmhost v P game tend to end up on the stale side. BL/infestor v P WoL end game was like that as well, although we did get some crazy games with archon toilets or carriers or base trades. It just wasn't the norm.
On March 14 2014 16:56 KoRStarvid wrote: can't really argue the fact that Blizzard is letting the game stay in this state. When I saw Jaedong play swarm host yesterday, I really didn't care that he lost, because if even Jaedong feels forced into playing a passive and boring style, then there's something deeply wrong with the game.
Will be watching this tournament, but I have a feeling I won't be watching much more SC2 for a while - it's just too boring at the moment.
Yesterday was a first time for a long time I watched a single game of PvZ. That matchup is completely shit and I can really feel pro gamer thoughts. Im pretty sure I wont watch a single PvZ in this tournament if Naniwa is not playing. Blizzard please fix this game.
You're wrong, Swarm Hosts are shit. Nothing is wrong with the match-up besides them.
Not exactly. The option to dig swarm hosts AND forget is shit. I really hate these games, where zerg just burrow SH and DO NOT MOVE!!! Like Hasu vs JD >< The possibility to do this in such a fast paced game is ridiculous ><
oh you mean when protoss lets tons of lings into his main and natural, doesnt make a 4th and still almost wins?
Well I'm glad you watched the entire game in a minute
That game was exciting because Rain made so many mistakes, I don't see how you can really debate that. Had he not made those mistakes he would have taken a 4th, gotten starports up, and had the ability to counter the muta follow up and won easily.
You could easily make the argument that most players wouldn't have gotten lings into Rain's bases and that Rogue being pretty good at Starcraft is what allowed him to. But people prefer to call everything throws. I think people are very biased against PvZ because they've seen a bunch of terrible games and thus can't appreciate a game of PvZ when it's actually good. It's fine to think that the game wasn't good, but saying it was all about the lings and nothing else is selling it pretty short
What? Are you being real right now, Rain didn't block the choke with a zealot properly, repeatedly even after he noticed it, no amount of Rogue being a good player would have made his lings magically pass through a pylon zealot wall. If a terran made a depot wall that wasn't ling proof and loses 20 scvs to just speedlings you would say the same thing that the terran made a mistake.
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