[SPL] KT vs Jin Air Round 2 2014 - Page 52

On February 23 2014 23:49 Vindicare605 wrote:


You know as well as I do the detriments are not equivalent.

And Helbats pre-nerf were a problem. Infestors Pre-Nerf were a problem.

I don't see how you think these things are comparable. They aren't.

On February 23 2014 22:51 The_Templar wrote:
Everyone had a bad FPL day.
That guy with KHAN + Zest + Cure main is probably chuckling evilly to himself.

On February 24 2014 01:18 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:

I had good FPL day

On February 24 2014 00:05 LibertyRises wrote:
Take away overcharge from MSC, keep recall, revert time warp nerf, make cannons cheaper and if necessary their require cybercore not forge. But not sure if removing forge requirement is necessary. Give MSC full its old ten million pixel vision as well. There.

I dunno, I find it unnerving that one stalker and one sentry require two bunkers from maru when he saw the move threat but toss doesnt have to make a cannon at all in P v T. Maru scared out of his mind on two base sees two units forced to bunker up which requires actions, minerals, and they need units in them as opposed to overcharge which is activated with the click of a button. P v T I dont recall last time I remember seeing a cannon. Does toss defense consist of warp in, proactive map control, and offense or threat of offense?

Terran feels too much like a cornered dog vs toss. Too much D too much offensive options somethings gotta give its pretty simple.

But I do want to note I think Zest won that game completely on his own merit because it felt like he gave Maru a chance not having colo or storn or even archons for half the fight. Its all the rest of T v Ps recently that look pretty hopeless.

On February 24 2014 05:22 KingKayzz wrote:
Protoss wants to defend harass - MSC.
Protoss wants to harass - MSC
Protoss needs a good macro build - MSC
Protoss needs a good harass build - MSC
Protoss wants to blink all-in - Fuck observers, protoss has MSC!
Protoss fucked up their attack so now they need to run - recall MSC
Protoss wants to win a tournament - MSC.

I'm pretty sure I missed some, but I dare anyone to make the same list for any other unit available to Terran and Zerg.

Maru vs Classic in Code S Polar Night this past week. That's the ONLY game you need to watch to understand how badly broken Protoss is atm. (I'm pretty sure that's the game, anyway.)

On topic: I love TvT! Good games, would have been happy with either team winning! :D

On February 24 2014 03:56 FabledIntegral wrote:


Keep in mind bunkers can be salvaged, repaired, cost half as much, and do not require a forge. Major difference. Single cannon is a significant more investment than 2 bunkers, not even remotely comparable. In fact, even if you scout an all from Terran, a cannon is typically not the best option.

On February 24 2014 05:39 Neemi wrote:


Like you said, they're not remotely comparable. The cannon is great at detecting + killing burrowed/cloaked units like DT's, and firing away at zerglings that can't reach it, but most terran units can easily shoot back and don't need a detector to be spotted so the cannon isn't great. Maybe against cloaked banshees or drops later on, but warping in always seems to be better against the latter. It's worth its 150 minerals in a lot of cases though.

Bunker is made so that basic terran units have an option to fight more effectively at certain chokes. It's true that they don't need an e-bay (though that would make bunker rushes non-viable, cannon rushes are viable right now), but they take a while to make, while Protoss can warp in way faster. If Maru had missed a Pylon getting up around his base or a warp prism, it would've been too late by the time the army comes in. Scouting the front of the Protoss base doesn't even really help. So he needs to make them regardless to "not lose". That's cutting building units, other buildings, research and mineral gathering to put up buildings that aren't even necessary.

Yes, it's true that they can be salvaged so they only cost 25 minerals in the end, or around 60 if you include SCV build time, but imagine having the put a couple of probes on hold for a minute every time a few Terran units poke in. But that's not necessary, as it's nearly impossible to surprise a Protoss player with an army as it needs to be produced slowly in the main base. If a big attack is coming, they know, and can prepare accordingly. If it's just a poke, Protoss doesn't need to worry as Warp In + Photon Overcharge is generally ready.

I have to admit, the way Polt played at IEM was some really inspired TvP, but extremely high risk-high reward gameplay. I'm pretty sure there are options in TvP that haven't been explored thoroughly yet, but I feel bad for Terran Pros right now who feel like cornered dogs each time they have to play the match-up. I felt the same for Protoss in 2011, when the 1/1/1 annihilated pretty much every Protoss even when they tried their hardest.

Anyway, I'm amazed KT managed to win after going down the first 2 games, well played Zest & Stats I was starting to think Jin Air was KT's Achilles-heel but as it turns out KT is the first team to have beaten every other team in PL this season!

On February 24 2014 06:15 arkedos wrote:
just one quick question ? Do I have to subscribe the twitch channel to view the VoDs or where can they be found ?