[SPL] KT vs Jin Air Round 2 2014 - Page 53

On February 24 2014 07:36 sparklyresidue wrote:
How was Maru vs. Flash?

On February 24 2014 08:09 SweetNJoshSauce wrote:
About how long does it take for the vods to get uploaded on their youtube site?

On February 24 2014 08:18 Xarles wrote:
Anyone ever figure out what Flash was mad about?

On February 24 2014 03:56 FabledIntegral wrote:


Keep in mind bunkers can be salvaged, repaired, cost half as much, and do not require a forge. Major difference. Single cannon is a significant more investment than 2 bunkers, not even remotely comparable. In fact, even if you scout an all from Terran, a cannon is typically not the best option.

On February 24 2014 05:39 Neemi wrote:


Like you said, they're not remotely comparable. The cannon is great at detecting + killing burrowed/cloaked units like DT's, and firing away at zerglings that can't reach it, but most terran units can easily shoot back and don't need a detector to be spotted so the cannon isn't great. Maybe against cloaked banshees or drops later on, but warping in always seems to be better against the latter. It's worth its 150 minerals in a lot of cases though.

Bunker is made so that basic terran units have an option to fight more effectively at certain chokes. It's true that they don't need an e-bay (though that would make bunker rushes non-viable, cannon rushes are viable right now), but they take a while to make, while Protoss can warp in way faster. If Maru had missed a Pylon getting up around his base or a warp prism, it would've been too late by the time the army comes in. Scouting the front of the Protoss base doesn't even really help. So he needs to make them regardless to "not lose". That's cutting building units, other buildings, research and mineral gathering to put up buildings that aren't even necessary.

Yes, it's true that they can be salvaged so they only cost 25 minerals in the end, or around 60 if you include SCV build time, but imagine having the put a couple of probes on hold for a minute every time a few Terran units poke in. But that's not necessary, as it's nearly impossible to surprise a Protoss player with an army as it needs to be produced slowly in the main base. If a big attack is coming, they know, and can prepare accordingly. If it's just a poke, Protoss doesn't need to worry as Warp In + Photon Overcharge is generally ready.

I have to admit, the way Polt played at IEM was some really inspired TvP, but extremely high risk-high reward gameplay. I'm pretty sure there are options in TvP that haven't been explored thoroughly yet, but I feel bad for Terran Pros right now who feel like cornered dogs each time they have to play the match-up. I felt the same for Protoss in 2011, when the 1/1/1 annihilated pretty much every Protoss even when they tried their hardest.

Anyway, I'm amazed KT managed to win after going down the first 2 games, well played Zest & Stats I was starting to think Jin Air was KT's Achilles-heel but as it turns out KT is the first team to have beaten every other team in PL this season!

On February 24 2014 08:29 Rollora wrote:

short. Flash was aggressive (wanted to deal heavy damage with harassement) with a drop, but messed it up.
Maru made a counterattack, with several marines and a tank, flash pulled his tank at the wrong time (just when maru arrived, he unsieged and went it deeper into the main to control the small ramp up there but it was already too late for that so he lost everything into gg).
So basicly 2x tough luck for flash or great timing for maru. Fanboys here will tell you Maru was better or Flash "just" had bad luck and would have "crushed the kid", but if the mistake with the tank would not have happened, the game would have normalized and the actual skill of each player would have shown. So it was just a momentum used and a game that rapidly snowballed. No real "skill" was brought to that game, so noone can really say some player was better then the other, you can say maru was lucky but on the other hand he had a spot on decision making whereas flash didn't have that. He made an untypical mistake and he was very upset after that, arguing with a referee that he didn't get enough time to warmup (well he really didnt look warmed up that game, as said)

On February 24 2014 10:21 CutTheEnemy wrote:
Zest vs Maru, typical pvt.

Terran can't scout without sacrificing 5.4 marines in the form of a mule for a scan. Protoss keeps him at bay with a single harassment unit that can end the game by itself. Maru must respond to a possible all-in because it will kill him if it is coming. In fact, the toss defends until nearly 10 minutes with a single stalker and a single sentry and couldn't attack- trickery!

When maru pushes, after the toss invests in a nexus and has made no units, but has not mined from said nexus either, he warps in a few rounds and defends 10 minutes of unit production plus several SCV pulls while maru frantically micros his army to try to get something done with it- futile however vs the micro of zealot/archon stalker(well controlled, but not maru-level control).

I suppose maru should have used the double reaper opening, which is the only reasonable opening possible it seems vs toss right now. Zest had the perfect build to wreck him for not making those reapers.

On February 24 2014 11:25 vthree wrote:


I dunno. I think Flash was significantly behind after his medivac got sniped. I think even if he doesn't unsiege to give a chance for Maru to just run up the ramp, Maru just contains him for a long time and get a big eco lead(Maru would have killed the depot wall and force lift on the barracks that was part of wall). I think that was what Maru was trying to do with that push (not to end the game). So even without the tank mistake, Maru would have probably got the eco lead and likely snowball into win. Losing that 10 supply of army so early is just too much.

On February 24 2014 11:25 vthree wrote:


I dunno. I think Flash was significantly behind after his medivac got sniped. I think even if he doesn't unsiege to give a chance for Maru to just run up the ramp, Maru just contains him for a long time and get a big eco lead(Maru would have killed the depot wall and force lift on the barracks that was part of wall). I think that was what Maru was trying to do with that push (not to end the game). So even without the tank mistake, Maru would have probably got the eco lead and likely snowball into win. Losing that 10 supply of army so early is just too much.

On February 23 2014 23:17 coloursheep wrote:



Maru scanned the main and saw nothing and his three attempts at scouting were actively shut down, clearly something was going on that zest did not want him to see and that should have set off alarm bells in Maru's head making finding out what is happening his number one priority. He did not do that and as a result he was put in an awkward position. You can blame it on balance but Maru's game sense failed him in this match.

On February 24 2014 23:48 FatCat_13 wrote:
Terrans are so scared of blink all-in. I actually am inclined to think Maru would have lost this game even if he had wiped that 3rd nexus out just because sacrificing too many scvs...