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On December 23 2013 19:15 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 19:05 Doublemint wrote:On December 23 2013 18:20 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 09:25 Vari wrote:On December 23 2013 07:54 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 07:48 Undead1993 wrote:
scarlett looked horrible in those games, naniwa didn't look all too good either but clearly the superior one in the pvz matchup, sadly no real late game has been played. gratz naniwa. It was a pretty bad series overall, not unexpected given what a clusterfuck ZvP is. I'm not sure it told us much, except that Acer really needs to get a good protoss, but blind haters and fans will use it as an excuse or a cudgel for a long time. Grats nani and all that, but honestly with all the hype it was always going to feel disappointing. what does "clusterfuck" mean in this post? I find pvz to be pretty entertaining right now and nani abused an apparent weakness of scarlett's... not sure how that reflects on the matchup as a whole It means it's a horrible match up. It's the polar opposite of TvT, which represents everything awesome about Sc2, PvZ represents everything awful about the game. It's probably ok from a balance perspective, it's just mildly preferable to gouging your eyeballs out with a spoon as a spectator or player.
There are dozens of posts and videos where pros talk about how terrible PvZ is, where it is explained in great detail. I beg to differ, and opinions will be opinions. Well I could totally see how someone would consider the eye-gouging part preferable, so I completely agree there. And before anyone jumps on me for balance whining, I was equally vocal about my hatred of PvZ during snoozelord/infestor. It's just a fundamentally flawed, broken match up.
Well what specifically do you dislike about it?
Personally I'd rank it as the 3rd best matchup behind TvZ and TvT. If nothing else, I think it has diversity going for it more so than any other matchup in the game.
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On December 23 2013 19:15 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 19:05 Doublemint wrote:On December 23 2013 18:20 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 09:25 Vari wrote:On December 23 2013 07:54 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 07:48 Undead1993 wrote:
scarlett looked horrible in those games, naniwa didn't look all too good either but clearly the superior one in the pvz matchup, sadly no real late game has been played. gratz naniwa. It was a pretty bad series overall, not unexpected given what a clusterfuck ZvP is. I'm not sure it told us much, except that Acer really needs to get a good protoss, but blind haters and fans will use it as an excuse or a cudgel for a long time. Grats nani and all that, but honestly with all the hype it was always going to feel disappointing. what does "clusterfuck" mean in this post? I find pvz to be pretty entertaining right now and nani abused an apparent weakness of scarlett's... not sure how that reflects on the matchup as a whole It means it's a horrible match up. It's the polar opposite of TvT, which represents everything awesome about Sc2, PvZ represents everything awful about the game. It's probably ok from a balance perspective, it's just mildly preferable to gouging your eyeballs out with a spoon as a spectator or player.
There are dozens of posts and videos where pros talk about how terrible PvZ is, where it is explained in great detail. I beg to differ, and opinions will be opinions. Well I could totally see how someone would consider the eye-gouging part preferable, so I completely agree there. And before anyone jumps on me for balance whining, I was equally vocal about my hatred of PvZ during snoozelord/infestor. It's just a fundamentally flawed, broken match up.
"In my opinion", you might add that part 
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On December 23 2013 19:27 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 19:15 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 19:05 Doublemint wrote:On December 23 2013 18:20 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 09:25 Vari wrote:On December 23 2013 07:54 Squat wrote:On December 23 2013 07:48 Undead1993 wrote:
scarlett looked horrible in those games, naniwa didn't look all too good either but clearly the superior one in the pvz matchup, sadly no real late game has been played. gratz naniwa. It was a pretty bad series overall, not unexpected given what a clusterfuck ZvP is. I'm not sure it told us much, except that Acer really needs to get a good protoss, but blind haters and fans will use it as an excuse or a cudgel for a long time. Grats nani and all that, but honestly with all the hype it was always going to feel disappointing. what does "clusterfuck" mean in this post? I find pvz to be pretty entertaining right now and nani abused an apparent weakness of scarlett's... not sure how that reflects on the matchup as a whole It means it's a horrible match up. It's the polar opposite of TvT, which represents everything awesome about Sc2, PvZ represents everything awful about the game. It's probably ok from a balance perspective, it's just mildly preferable to gouging your eyeballs out with a spoon as a spectator or player.
There are dozens of posts and videos where pros talk about how terrible PvZ is, where it is explained in great detail. I beg to differ, and opinions will be opinions. Well I could totally see how someone would consider the eye-gouging part preferable, so I completely agree there. And before anyone jumps on me for balance whining, I was equally vocal about my hatred of PvZ during snoozelord/infestor. It's just a fundamentally flawed, broken match up. Well what specifically do you dislike about it? Personally I'd rank it as the 3rd best matchup behind TvZ and TvT. If nothing else, I think it has diversity going for it more so than any other matchup in the game.
The diversity is part of the problem, it's just way too much stuff that is viable, at least from protoss. There is no safe, standard way to play, it's just russian roulette. There is no way to prepare for everything, or even half of it.
It's a horrid mess of gimmicks, guess the all-in, it more or less pushes zerg into mass muta or swarm host turtle since everything else gets shat on. It rewards low-skill, all-in tactics far too much and does not reward mechanical skill, multitasking and micro anywhere near enough. It's just an ugly, gross match up that has been shit since day 1. Most of it has to do with protoss, but BL/infestor was just as bad in some ways. I usually just avoid it altogether, but this showmatch was intriguing because of the storyline.
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Northern Ireland26967 Posts
I think PvZ has improved a lot, still has a way to go though
Nice to see Scarlett beaten. Her whining about Protoss has got to the stage where it's affecting her ability to play the matchup IMO. As Nani used to do in the past about Zerg actually!
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I think that has more to do with a lack of good protoss practice partners tbh. Her TvZ is amazing, and Innovation and MMA happen to be on the same team, coincidence? I think people in general tend to overestimate the impact of complaints about balance or the game on performance. Idra always hated the game, yet he won a fair share of tournaments.
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Northern Ireland26967 Posts
I think like Idra before her her Protoss hate actually impacts on her games against that race. It's nice in a way to see her lose, HerO v Scarlett @ MLG, never forget :p
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On December 23 2013 21:45 Squat wrote:
I think that has more to do with a lack of good protoss practice partners tbh. Her TvZ is amazing, and Innovation and MMA happen to be on the same team, coincidence?
It's been said plenty of times by plenty of people that just having players signed on the same team doesn't mean they practice together or interact a meaningful amount, especially when they're on different continents/servers.
Besides, I believe Scarlett and Nani did practice together not long ago (according to their Twitter conversations).
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On December 23 2013 22:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I think like Idra before her her Protoss hate actually impacts on her games against that race. It's nice in a way to see her lose, HerO v Scarlett @ MLG, never forget :p
Don't remember those games tbh, or likely I never saw them. I'm sure it can be a kind of baggage to carry into a match like this, but it's also possible to hate your job and still be good at it.
And it's possible that Inno and MMA don't practice much with the European group, but it seems rather strange that someone would have awesome ZvT with two amazing terrans on the team, and lackluster ZvP with no protoss on said team, and not have those factors be connected. I dunno, often the simplest explanation is the correct one.
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Northern Ireland26967 Posts
Scarlett has always had decent ZvT and bar the time of Bl/Inf lacklustre ZvP. I'm impressed with her level in ZvZ, Acer Zergs are good, but not to the level of Life and other scalps she's taken.
Axiom Acer had a few good Toss, but that was quite a whole ago
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She's become a bit like JD, one really strong match up, one that is not quite as good but still very good, and one that is blergh. I still firmly believe that if you want to become good enough to compete with the best consistently you have to practice the same way. It's pretty much go to Korea or fall behind, unless you're Stephano. She's incredibly talented, but it only takes you so far.
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On December 23 2013 22:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
Scarlett has always had decent ZvT and bar the time of Bl/Inf lacklustre ZvP. I'm impressed with her level in ZvZ, Acer Zergs are good, but not to the level of Life and other scalps she's taken.
Axiom Acer had a few good Toss, but that was quite a whole ago
Nerchio has always been a zvz beast though. However, I don't think that's why Scarlett excels in that particular match-up. Her ZvT was her best mu since the beginning of her pro career, so I'm pretty sure it's no more than a coincidence that she shares that green jacket with two of the best terrans in the world...
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On December 23 2013 22:28 Squat wrote:
She's become a bit like JD, one really strong match up, one that is not quite as good but still very good, and one that is blergh. I still firmly believe that if you want to become good enough to compete with the best consistently you have to practice the same way. It's pretty much go to Korea or fall behind, unless you're Stephano. She's incredibly talented, but it only takes you so far.
Her ZvP is good though... taking sOs to the ace game? Beating down MC 2-0 in the same tournament? Even a 4-2 score vs Naniwa isn't anything to be ashamed off, that's in fact almost as close as a bo7 series can get. None of those things are achieved in a blergh matchup.
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Northern Ireland26967 Posts
If Alliance don't sort him out, AcerNani would be sickkkk
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On December 23 2013 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:
If Alliance don't sort him out, AcerNani would be sickkkk
No
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On December 23 2013 22:35 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:
If Alliance don't sort him out, AcerNani would be sickkkk No
You can't hide from tosses forever, you know.
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On December 23 2013 22:32 Zackeva wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 22:28 Squat wrote:
She's become a bit like JD, one really strong match up, one that is not quite as good but still very good, and one that is blergh. I still firmly believe that if you want to become good enough to compete with the best consistently you have to practice the same way. It's pretty much go to Korea or fall behind, unless you're Stephano. She's incredibly talented, but it only takes you so far. Her ZvP is good though... taking sOs to the ace game? Beating down MC 2-0 in the same tournament? Even a 4-2 score vs Naniwa isn't anything to be ashamed off, that's in fact almost as close as a bo7 series can get. None of those things are achieved in a blergh matchup.
True enough, my hatred of the match up sometimes clouds my judgement, correction accepted. Let's say an inconsistent match up, or unreliable.
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Northern Ireland26967 Posts
On December 23 2013 22:35 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:
If Alliance don't sort him out, AcerNani would be sickkkk No
Aw don't be like that, he's a cuddly wee fella really!
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On December 23 2013 22:43 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 22:32 Zackeva wrote:On December 23 2013 22:28 Squat wrote:
She's become a bit like JD, one really strong match up, one that is not quite as good but still very good, and one that is blergh. I still firmly believe that if you want to become good enough to compete with the best consistently you have to practice the same way. It's pretty much go to Korea or fall behind, unless you're Stephano. She's incredibly talented, but it only takes you so far. Her ZvP is good though... taking sOs to the ace game? Beating down MC 2-0 in the same tournament? Even a 4-2 score vs Naniwa isn't anything to be ashamed off, that's in fact almost as close as a bo7 series can get. None of those things are achieved in a blergh matchup. True enough, my hatred of the match up sometimes clouds my judgement, correction accepted. Let's say an inconsistent match up, or unreliable.
Yes, it can be pretty stupid sometimes, and that works both ways. : ( I still don't think it's the worst one though, and most of the time it's actually enjoyable for me. It's all a matter of opinion.
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On December 23 2013 22:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 22:35 Nerchio wrote:On December 23 2013 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:
If Alliance don't sort him out, AcerNani would be sickkkk No Aw don't be like that, he's a cuddly wee fella really!
If you are willing to disregard his more homicidal tendencies and the way his fingers start to twitch when he's standing behind you, he's downright adorable.
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I think PvZ is one of the most diverse and fun matchups. It's one of the only MUs where you frequently see every single unit made in a Bo7 (well, maybe not Carriers.. but still). I think it's pretty balanced right now and the better player wins.
Compare that to TvZ where MMMM is the only thing ever getting made (I still like it because of the action).
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EPT
