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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:30 BlackCompany wrote:
I dont understand why you play that passive vs zergs, i thought people realized that you get in a lot of trouble if you allow Zerg 4 bases and 90 drones uncontested.
Queen Patch was not cancelled. And with B4's style (including relatively high queen count) you are not going to do damage before 10:00 with 3 OC 2 EB build. Probably.
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4713 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:30 Tsubbi wrote:
havent watched sc2 in a while, have there been pro games since the patch where people successfully used the mech or roach buffs?
Lots of EU terrans are kind of experimenting with mech, I've seen some in HSC 8 and ATC. In Korea the only guy that really experimented with mech seems to be SuperNova.
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On November 23 2013 19:28 Destructicon wrote:
I want to see if Innovation's parade push style can break that defense from B4.
Isn't that what MMA was trying to do? Did I miss something?
I dunno how Terran is supposed to play for the late-game. They don't work very well at the food cap, until 10 minutes later when they have an orbital farm :/
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On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Thats not a big enough buff lol
Depends on the player. Since the Siege-tank buff, GoOdy had a 93%-vZ ladder winrate at one point.
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On November 23 2013 19:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:26 sharkie wrote:
Isn't the counter to BBBB's style to just mass expand? Since he doesnt play aggressively.
MMA stuck to three bases too long imo Terran does not benefit from mass expanding though, unless you keep on adding and adding production to spend the bank.
yeah but having a large bank can never hurt can it?
and terrans can have mules instead of scvs...
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On November 23 2013 19:30 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Siege tanks don't shoot up. Muta ling baneling is ridiculously hard to deal with now. Same as last night. Once the muta count gets up, it's really hard to control it and you can't drop.
I think tanks could use an upgrade like mine, something that makes them siege and unsiege faster. I think the extreme immobility is the main problem vs an army with lots of mutas, siege tanks are like giant markers with "KILL ME" spray painted on them.
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On November 23 2013 19:30 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Siege tanks don't shoot up. Muta ling baneling is ridiculously hard to deal with now. Same as last night. Once the muta count gets up, it's really hard to control it and you can't drop.
And majority of people say you are unknowledgeable about the game. At least you seem to understand the problem of TvZ while the majority still thinks siegetanks would do anything pushing out at 14 minutes when you have 5 or more. In the meantime Zerg is T3 with 95 drones and mines that would allow for midgame pushes got (once again) nerfed into the ground so you could get easily overrun if you don't manage to put down Zerg very early and constantly trade which is very risky because one bad engagement and your potential for pressure is gone.
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On November 23 2013 19:30 Tsubbi wrote:
havent watched sc2 in a while, have there been pro games since the patch where people successfully used the mech or roach buffs?
Thorzain beat Hasu with mech at HSC, but that was more of Hasu not playing properly than mech being legit imo
As for the roach buff, I cannot recall any. Seems underused imo.
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On November 23 2013 19:30 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Siege tanks don't shoot up. Muta ling baneling is ridiculously hard to deal with now. Same as last night. Once the muta count gets up, it's really hard to control it and you can't drop.
Remember when you wrote to shout at you whenever you step outside team manager role?
As a fellow terran I really sympathize but please consider yourself shouted at.
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Everyone keeps bashing on tanks but every time Bomber uses them he owns, maybe bomber's just the godliest though.
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On November 23 2013 19:32 PineapplePizza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:28 Destructicon wrote:
I want to see if Innovation's parade push style can break that defense from B4. Isn't that what MMA was trying to do? Did I miss something? I dunno how Terran is supposed to play for the late-game. They don't work very well at the food cap, until 10 minutes later when they have an orbital farm :/
MMA tried to out-multitask him by dropping in many locations but since B4 made more queens than usual he managed to defend rather easily. Parade push would probably work better against that style.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:32 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:28 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 23 2013 19:26 sharkie wrote:
Isn't the counter to BBBB's style to just mass expand? Since he doesnt play aggressively.
MMA stuck to three bases too long imo Terran does not benefit from mass expanding though, unless you keep on adding and adding production to spend the bank. yeah but having a large bank can never hurt can it? and terrans can have mules instead of scvs...
large bank never hurts, but does not help, if there are 5 ultras and 6 broods in your production.
And mules instead of scvs is good, but does not help much with supply inefficient army like bio.
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On November 23 2013 19:31 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:30 BlackCompany wrote:
I dont understand why you play that passive vs zergs, i thought people realized that you get in a lot of trouble if you allow Zerg 4 bases and 90 drones uncontested. How did he play passive. He didn't stop dropping, but it doesn't matter. Now it's difficult to remove the mutaball, drops become next to useless. As someone suggested early, perhaps the only thing you could do in that situation is mass expand then overwhelm him late game.
I dont mean when he started dropping, but rather before that. I know Ts almost always do this 3 cc style but it looks so bad when you loose with it.
True about the mutas.. hopefully you guys pull it off, Crank to double-kill and Innovation to finish it of please 
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On November 23 2013 19:33 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:30 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Siege tanks don't shoot up. Muta ling baneling is ridiculously hard to deal with now. Same as last night. Once the muta count gets up, it's really hard to control it and you can't drop. Remember when you wrote to shout at you whenever you step outside team manager role? As a fellow terran I really sympathize but please consider yourself shouted at.
His statement is perfectly fine and true at that.
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On November 23 2013 19:32 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Thats not a big enough buff lol Depends on the player. Since the Siege-tank buff, GoOdy had a 93%-vZ ladder winrate at one point.
Then we wish him good luck for his next Code S match!
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4713 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:32 PineapplePizza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:28 Destructicon wrote:
I want to see if Innovation's parade push style can break that defense from B4. Isn't that what MMA was trying to do? Did I miss something? I dunno how Terran is supposed to play for the late-game. They don't work very well at the food cap, until 10 minutes later when they have an orbital farm :/
MMA looked like he delayed widow mine production for a while and was trying to be aggressive with double drops and such. Innovation would have gone for more frontal aggression after the 11:00 move out to clear creep. He wouldn't have delayed WM production as much and would have an overall stronger push.
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On November 23 2013 19:32 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Thats not a big enough buff lol Depends on the player. Since the Siege-tank buff, GoOdy had a 93%-vZ ladder winrate at one point.
lol yeah I'm sure he'd do fantastic on the kr ladder vs gm zerg muta harass
protip
he'd die, a lot.
Widow mines are, or were, stupid fucking good, so to compensate, mutas got their buffs. After mutas got their buffs, tanks became a rather bad idea against anybody who builds more than 12 muta
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On November 23 2013 19:34 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:32 PineapplePizza wrote:On November 23 2013 19:28 Destructicon wrote:
I want to see if Innovation's parade push style can break that defense from B4. Isn't that what MMA was trying to do? Did I miss something? I dunno how Terran is supposed to play for the late-game. They don't work very well at the food cap, until 10 minutes later when they have an orbital farm :/ MMA looked like he delayed widow mine production for a while and was trying to be aggressive with double drops and such. Innovation would have gone for more frontal aggression after the 11:00 move out to clear creep. He wouldn't have delayed WM production as much and would have an overall stronger push.
Regardless, earlier WM production would have given him unreliable results. Either those mines do the job or they spectacularly fail to trade well and you just get run over. Prepatch absolutely I'd agree, but if the last 2 evenings of matches have shown anything, mines are not doing their job anymore.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:34 VKCA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:32 Xoronius wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Thats not a big enough buff lol Depends on the player. Since the Siege-tank buff, GoOdy had a 93%-vZ ladder winrate at one point. lol yeah I'm sure he'd do fantastic on the kr ladder vs gm zerg muta harass protip he'd die, a lot. Widow mines are, or were, stupid fucking good, so to compensate, mutas got their buffs. After mutas got their buffs, tanks became a rather bad idea against anybody who builds more than 12 muta
Time to nerf muta regen!
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On November 23 2013 19:34 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 19:32 Xoronius wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 Dodgin wrote:On November 23 2013 19:29 bo1b wrote:
Why did they nerf the widowmine without a compromise :\ didn't siege tanks get a dps buff? Thats not a big enough buff lol Depends on the player. Since the Siege-tank buff, GoOdy had a 93%-vZ ladder winrate at one point. Then we wish him good luck for his next Code S match!
Ofc we do! But being serious, what would you recommend to buff, when nerfing Widow-mine? A Marine-buff would be to brutal in early game. Thors maybe?
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EPT
