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[Up/Down] Group F WCS Korea 2013 Season 3 - Page 39

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-17 01:57:35
August 16 2013 14:07 GMT
#761
On August 16 2013 22:56 andrewlt wrote:
Something tells me that some people do not watch real sports. Head to head is the most common way to break ties in pretty much every sport.

Except in real sports it's over the course of a season with many games played, like the NBA where the sheer number of games makes any H2H tiebreaker a lot less harsh. Both teams tying on 50-32 gives is freaking close and both had plenty of chances over the season to get their 51st win, not to mention playing a minimum of 2 games vs each other. Having the same system for a 2-2 (played each other once) record is dumb and I challenge you to find a H2H tiebreak existing in any 'real sport' as a first option off such limited data.

This is coupled with the difficulty of running tiebreakers between teams from different areas in longer, harder to organise sports. In the case of U&D it's a 2-2 score, the games are online, 1vs1 and take 15-20 minutes plus they're already in the studio. Even limiting it to one round of tiebreakers then going to H2H due to time restrictions, if it remains tied, would be better.

On August 16 2013 22:56 andrewlt wrote:
Everything is arbitrary. Not just the tiebreakers, but every tournament structure in every tournament. People need to stop crying about perceived unfairness every time the results aren't what they want. And stop with the BS that you don't care about the results you are whining about. That's the least believable argument you can possibly make.

I don't give a shit about who got out of this group. However, I do get irritated when people defend a format with bullshit semantics like 'everything is arbitrary.' So regardless of how bad a format is we're never allowed to criticise or suggest improvements because we must just be a sore loser? I'm sure the players must get frustrated at how their livelihood is impacted by GOM making a single Bo1 more important than the others and turning advancement into a coin toss.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-16 15:03:35
August 16 2013 14:34 GMT
#762
On August 16 2013 23:07 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 22:56 andrewlt wrote:
Something tells me that some people do not watch real sports. Head to head is the most common way to break ties in pretty much every sport.

Except in real sports it's over the course of a season with many games played, like the NBA where the sheer number of games makes any H2H tiebreaker a lot less harsh. Both teams tying on 50-32 gives is freaking close and both had plenty of chances over the season to get their 51st win, not to mention playing a minimum of 2 games vs each other. Having the same system for a 2-2 (played each other once) record is dumb and I challenge you to find a H2H tiebreak existing in any 'real sport' as a first option of such limited data.

This is coupled with the difficulty of running tiebreakers between teams from different areas in longer, harder to organise games. In the case of U&D it's a 2-2 score, the games are online and take 15-20 minutes plus they're already in the studio. Even just limiting it to one round of tiebreakers then going to H2H due to time restrictions if it remains tied.


You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of chances over the season for all of these players to not be in the up and down groups. They all had the chance to stay in premier league or advance to premier league without going through the up and down groups. They all blew that chance.

Assuming 15-20 minute games, tiebreakers between 3 players is roughly 1 hour. That's everybody from the announcers to the production crew, cleaning crew, logistics people and so forth having to stay an extra hour. There is also the audience, most of whom have work or school the next day. In the NBA, I frequently have to turn off the TV and go to bed when west coast games go to overtime. I'd say having your live audience go home without knowing the results is the event you want to avoid the most.

On August 16 2013 23:07 Scarecrow wrote:
I don't give a shit about who got out of this group. However, I do get irritated when people defend a format with bullshit semantics like 'everything is arbitrary.' So regardless of how bad a format is we're never allowed to criticise or suggest improvements because we must just be a sore loser? I'm sure the players must get frustrated at how their livelihood is impacted by GOM making a single Bo1 more important than the others and turning advancement into a coin toss.


I get irritated when people ignore all logistical issues and time constraints to argue based on their personal definitions of fairness and arbitrary. I find other people's definition of fairness and arbitrary to be bullshit and arbitrary. The player's livelihood is not all that is at stake here. You either have GOM having to pay out additional overtime or have the production crew work unpaid overtime. You know, the little people that everybody ignores and just steps on.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
August 16 2013 15:13 GMT
#763
--- Nuked ---
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
August 16 2013 15:17 GMT
#764
On August 16 2013 23:07 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 22:56 andrewlt wrote:
Something tells me that some people do not watch real sports. Head to head is the most common way to break ties in pretty much every sport.

Except in real sports it's over the course of a season with many games played, like the NBA where the sheer number of games makes any H2H tiebreaker a lot less harsh. Both teams tying on 50-32 gives is freaking close and both had plenty of chances over the season to get their 51st win, not to mention playing a minimum of 2 games vs each other. Having the same system for a 2-2 (played each other once) record is dumb and I challenge you to find a H2H tiebreak existing in any 'real sport' as a first option off such limited data.

This is coupled with the difficulty of running tiebreakers between teams from different areas in longer, harder to organise sports. In the case of U&D it's a 2-2 score, the games are online, 1vs1 and take 15-20 minutes plus they're already in the studio. Even limiting it to one round of tiebreakers then going to H2H due to time restrictions, if it remains tied, would be better.

Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 22:56 andrewlt wrote:
Everything is arbitrary. Not just the tiebreakers, but every tournament structure in every tournament. People need to stop crying about perceived unfairness every time the results aren't what they want. And stop with the BS that you don't care about the results you are whining about. That's the least believable argument you can possibly make.

I don't give a shit about who got out of this group. However, I do get irritated when people defend a format with bullshit semantics like 'everything is arbitrary.' So regardless of how bad a format is we're never allowed to criticise or suggest improvements because we must just be a sore loser? I'm sure the players must get frustrated at how their livelihood is impacted by GOM making a single Bo1 more important than the others and turning advancement into a coin toss.


The World Cup uses H2H after goal difference/goal scored. We don't have 'goals' for SC2 so it is H2H. So the argument that some 'games' shouldn't be more important than others depending on who is tied really doesn't hold water. Some world cup group stage games also matter more than others.
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