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On August 15 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:21 Thrillz wrote:On August 15 2013 21:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:11 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:10 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:07 Thrillz wrote:On August 15 2013 21:04 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:02 KristofferAG wrote:
[quote]
Except it's bullshit. His game v Killer in the Ro32? Awesome, even if he ended up losing, relentless. His game v Supernova in the same group is still one of the most amazing TvTs ever. Sure he lucked out in the Ro16 and only had to beat Gumi, and both his games v Mvp and Gumi were pretty scrappy and bad. But there's no way you can say his games v Oz weren't interesting at least, and even if he stomped Puzzle it was not because of Puzzle being bad, but jjakji being good. I disagree. Puzzle played like shit (like in every other Ro8 appearance he had) and the games vs Oz were some of the worst PvT I've ever watched. On paper Oz should've won that 3-0, but he made lots of mistakes and ended up losing. And I guarantee that if CoCa had took part in Code S Jjakji would have never made it to Playoffs.  Jjakji-Leenock still delivered the best finals in terms of games. He did get good draws and lucky consequences. Then again, so did Sniper. Seed actually beat very good opponents and various races, etc. At least Jjakji is more relevant than Sniper now. Sniper got good draws? You think MarineKing, sHy, Seed himself, then Bogus, Polt and PartinG are good draws? Leenock, the infinitely underrated Ryung and then Hyun? This is what you call a good draw? On top of all that he was completely destroying team leagues both online and offline (GSTL) during 2012. So no, I really don't see your point here, sorry. :/ Patch 1.5.3 was the best draw you could get for a Zerg player. I guess Life's win doesn't count either then. If you don't understand the difference between abusing the shit out of BL/Infestor and killing everyone with Zergling run-bys then you should check a doctor. Yes, how dare I suggest that the player who beat some the actual best players in the world at his time all the while getting 3/4/5 kills in GSTL per match is actually good. No amount of whine would change that. If it was Symbol or ByuL or LosirA that actually won, you may have a point. Symbol did nearly win and was doing well himself. In fact, Symbol is a better player than Life at the moment. I'm just saying, of all the Zergs that were on the rise at the time, pwning nerds in GSTL and what not, Sniper was the only one who made it into the Ro8 and then won.
Per Ver's prospective, Terran domination was your usual (consistent) suspects, Zerg not so much. They are still very good players, Sniper is still very good, but he was definitely lucky. Jjakji was probably luckier, but Jjakji is still the most relevant.
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On August 15 2013 21:25 Zealously wrote:
Sniper didn't abuse BL/Infestor. In fact, I'm pretty sure Life did it more times than Sniper when Mvp realised that the key to beating Life was massing BFH, and people still consider (and considered) Life one of the most entertaining Zergs to watch.
Sniper played a lot of cool games without the Brood Lord combo, but for some reason people forget that =/
MVP vs life was one of the worst finals IMO because of the fact every game was decided by whether or not Mvp could kill 20-30 drones in the first attack. He went BFH into mech 7 games in a row and went 3-4 with it.
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On August 15 2013 21:21 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:19 Hryul wrote:On August 15 2013 21:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 15 2013 21:18 Destructicon wrote:
So jjakji is now the first Code S champion to return to Code S after falling into Code B? That's right there's still hope left for MMA! That's the first time someone talked down WCS EU this hard.
uhrm, exactly how? There are just more tough opponents in Korea than EU. So it would bring the fanboy to the maximum if he actually took out the likes of Innovation/Soulkey.
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On August 15 2013 21:28 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:21 Thrillz wrote:On August 15 2013 21:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:11 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:10 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:07 Thrillz wrote:On August 15 2013 21:04 MasterOfPuppets wrote:[quote] I disagree. Puzzle played like shit (like in every other Ro8 appearance he had) and the games vs Oz were some of the worst PvT I've ever watched. On paper Oz should've won that 3-0, but he made lots of mistakes and ended up losing. And I guarantee that if CoCa had took part in Code S Jjakji would have never made it to Playoffs. Jjakji-Leenock still delivered the best finals in terms of games. He did get good draws and lucky consequences. Then again, so did Sniper. Seed actually beat very good opponents and various races, etc. At least Jjakji is more relevant than Sniper now. Sniper got good draws? You think MarineKing, sHy, Seed himself, then Bogus, Polt and PartinG are good draws? Leenock, the infinitely underrated Ryung and then Hyun? This is what you call a good draw? On top of all that he was completely destroying team leagues both online and offline (GSTL) during 2012. So no, I really don't see your point here, sorry. :/ Patch 1.5.3 was the best draw you could get for a Zerg player. I guess Life's win doesn't count either then. If you don't understand the difference between abusing the shit out of BL/Infestor and killing everyone with Zergling run-bys then you should check a doctor. Yes, how dare I suggest that the player who beat some the actual best players in the world at his time all the while getting 3/4/5 kills in GSTL per match is actually good. No amount of whine would change that. If it was Symbol or ByuL or LosirA that actually won, you may have a point. Symbol did nearly win and was doing well himself. In fact, Symbol is a better player than Life at the moment. I'm just saying, of all the Zergs that were on the rise at the time, pwning nerds in GSTL and what not, Sniper was the only one who made it into the Ro8 and then won. Per Ver's prospective, Terran domination was your usual (consistent) suspects, Zerg not so much. They are still very good players, Sniper is still very good, but he was definitely lucky. Jjakji was probably luckier, but Jjakji is still the most relevant.
Wouldn't call players like TOP and IMHappy "the usual suspects" considering those were the peak moments of their respective careers never to be replicated again.
Also let me quote myself here:
"Sniper got good draws? You think MarineKing, sHy, Seed himself, then Bogus, Polt and PartinG are good draws? Leenock, the infinitely underrated Ryung and then Hyun? This is what you call a good draw?"
Wherein lies the luck?
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On August 15 2013 21:25 Zealously wrote:
Sniper didn't abuse BL/Infestor. In fact, I'm pretty sure Life did it more times than Sniper when Mvp realised that the key to beating Life was massing BFH, and people still consider (and considered) Life one of the most entertaining Zergs to watch.
Sniper played a lot of cool games without the Brood Lord combo, but for some reason people forget that =/
In fact, he lost a lot of games without BL combo.
And Sniper never played Mvp.
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On August 15 2013 21:30 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:28 Thrillz wrote:On August 15 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:21 Thrillz wrote:On August 15 2013 21:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:11 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:10 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 15 2013 21:07 Thrillz wrote:
[quote]
Jjakji-Leenock still delivered the best finals in terms of games. He did get good draws and lucky consequences. Then again, so did Sniper. Seed actually beat very good opponents and various races, etc. At least Jjakji is more relevant than Sniper now. Sniper got good draws? You think MarineKing, sHy, Seed himself, then Bogus, Polt and PartinG are good draws? Leenock, the infinitely underrated Ryung and then Hyun? This is what you call a good draw? On top of all that he was completely destroying team leagues both online and offline (GSTL) during 2012. So no, I really don't see your point here, sorry. :/ Patch 1.5.3 was the best draw you could get for a Zerg player. I guess Life's win doesn't count either then. If you don't understand the difference between abusing the shit out of BL/Infestor and killing everyone with Zergling run-bys then you should check a doctor. Yes, how dare I suggest that the player who beat some the actual best players in the world at his time all the while getting 3/4/5 kills in GSTL per match is actually good. No amount of whine would change that. If it was Symbol or ByuL or LosirA that actually won, you may have a point. Symbol did nearly win and was doing well himself. In fact, Symbol is a better player than Life at the moment. I'm just saying, of all the Zergs that were on the rise at the time, pwning nerds in GSTL and what not, Sniper was the only one who made it into the Ro8 and then won. Per Ver's prospective, Terran domination was your usual (consistent) suspects, Zerg not so much. They are still very good players, Sniper is still very good, but he was definitely lucky. Jjakji was probably luckier, but Jjakji is still the most relevant. Wouldn't call players like TOP and IMHappy "the usual suspects" considering those were the peak moments of their respective careers never to be replicated again. Also let me quote myself here: "Sniper got good draws? You think MarineKing, sHy, Seed himself, then Bogus, Polt and PartinG are good draws? Leenock, the infinitely underrated Ryung and then Hyun? This is what you call a good draw?" Wherein lies the luck?
Never said he had a lucky draw, he had a lucky timing, a perfect storm. Happy never made it to the finals, only TOP did, other than that the top was relatively consistent. Heck even TOP was a pretty good/consistent player before that finals and Happy hung around Code S Ro32-16 for a very very long time. Sniper is still the flukiest out of himself-Seed-Jjakji, for whatever reason, he fell the fastest and hasn't done anything since. I actually think he's a pretty decent player, and have more hope for him than Seed atm, but for whatever reason he's shitting the bed.
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On August 15 2013 21:30 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:21 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:19 Hryul wrote:On August 15 2013 21:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 15 2013 21:18 Destructicon wrote:
So jjakji is now the first Code S champion to return to Code S after falling into Code B? That's right there's still hope left for MMA! That's the first time someone talked down WCS EU this hard. uhrm, exactly how? There are just more tough opponents in Korea than EU. So it would bring the fanboy to the maximum if he actually took out the likes of Innovation/Soulkey.
As MMA is right now playing in WCS EU, and not WCS KR.
So, Code B = WCS EU.
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Losira got a bit lucky, and I'm glad he has
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On August 15 2013 21:35 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:30 Hryul wrote:On August 15 2013 21:21 DidYuhim wrote:On August 15 2013 21:19 Hryul wrote:On August 15 2013 21:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 15 2013 21:18 Destructicon wrote:
So jjakji is now the first Code S champion to return to Code S after falling into Code B? That's right there's still hope left for MMA! That's the first time someone talked down WCS EU this hard. uhrm, exactly how? There are just more tough opponents in Korea than EU. So it would bring the fanboy to the maximum if he actually took out the likes of Innovation/Soulkey. As MMA is right now playing in WCS EU, and not WCS KR. So, Code B = WCS EU.
well, technically, everybody not in Code A/S of Korea is in Code B by this measure. 
But good luck trying to convince somebody that Polt is actually a "code B" player by skill. (Jumping to polt because his skill clearly is higher than MMA atm)
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Yay, finally Jjakji is back!
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the code S players for next season will be:
Zerg (9): Soulkey, Symbol, Sleep, hyvaa, TRUE, SongDuri, soO, DongRaeGu, KangHo
Terran (11): Maru, INnoVation, Bomber, Supernova, Gumiho, Flash, Bbyong, Dream, Reality, Keen, jjakji
Protoss (12): Rain, First, PartinG, sOs, JangBi, YongHwa, Super, Hero, Pigbaby, Trap, Dear, Swagger
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On August 15 2013 21:57 thegnome wrote:
the code S players for next season will be:
Zerg (9): Soulkey, Symbol, Sleep, hyvaa, TRUE, SongDuri, soO, DongRaeGu, KangHo
Terran (11): Maru, INnoVation, Bomber, Supernova, Gumiho, Flash, Bbyong, Dream, Reality, Keen, jjakji
Protoss (12): Rain, First, PartinG, sOs, JangBi, YongHwa, Super, Hero, Pigbaby, Trap, Dear, Swagger
Terran and Protoss look very solid, but to me Zerg lacks in powerhouses. Besides SK and Symbol, there´s no one I would rate as a Code S mainstay.
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On August 15 2013 21:25 Zealously wrote:
Sniper didn't abuse BL/Infestor.
What I remember of Sniper in Bo3/Bo5 was him doing BL/infestor for the first game or the first two games, in order to get an advantage, then proceed to not play bl infestor for a while, and if the other player caught on, use bl infestor again on the last match. You can look at the semifinals vs Ryung (well, Ryung did some all-ins so he didn't bl infest the first two games, but he specifically DIDN'T bl/infest in games 3 and 4, and then when it mattered, resorted back to what's working). I also remember him going for bl/infest two games in a row vs HerO at IPL, then winning game 3 with mutas. I'm pretty sure if he had lost game 3, he would have done something else in game 4, and then easily won game 5 by switching back to bl/infest.
I wasn't like outraged by it or anything, but I did think at the time that it was a dishonest way to play. That's why I sort of disliked him, not because he made Eve cry or anything stupid like that.
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On August 15 2013 22:01 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:57 thegnome wrote:
the code S players for next season will be:
Zerg (9): Soulkey, Symbol, Sleep, hyvaa, TRUE, SongDuri, soO, DongRaeGu, KangHo
Terran (11): Maru, INnoVation, Bomber, Supernova, Gumiho, Flash, Bbyong, Dream, Reality, Keen, jjakji
Protoss (12): Rain, First, PartinG, sOs, JangBi, YongHwa, Super, Hero, Pigbaby, Trap, Dear, Swagger Terran and Protoss look very solid, but to me Zerg lacks in powerhouses. Besides SK and Symbol, there´s no one I would rate as a Code S mainstay.
I think DongRaeGu counts as a Code S mainstay considering he's been in 9 Code S seasons in a row.
Actually, shouldn't he be getting the NesTea award since he only spent a season in Code A during this OSL but managed to make his way back into Code S for this upcoming season (GSL)?
On August 15 2013 22:08 Nebuchad wrote:What I remember of Sniper in Bo3/Bo5 was him doing BL/infestor for the first game or the first two games, in order to get an advantage, then proceed to not play bl infestor for a while, and if the other player caught on, use bl infestor again on the last match. You can look at the semifinals vs Ryung (well, Ryung did some all-ins so he didn't bl infest the first two games, but he specifically DIDN'T bl/infest in games 3 and 4, and then when it mattered, resorted back to what's working). I also remember him going for bl/infest two games in a row vs HerO at IPL, then winning game 3 with mutas. I'm pretty sure if he had lost game 3, he would have done something else in game 4, and then easily won game 5 by switching back to bl/infest. I wasn't like outraged by it or anything, but I did think at the time that it was a dishonest way to play. That's why I sort of disliked him, not because he made Eve cry or anything stupid like that.
Did you also feel it was "dishonest" for Mvp to all-in Protosses during 2012 Season 2?
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On August 15 2013 22:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 22:01 Daswollvieh wrote:On August 15 2013 21:57 thegnome wrote:
the code S players for next season will be:
Zerg (9): Soulkey, Symbol, Sleep, hyvaa, TRUE, SongDuri, soO, DongRaeGu, KangHo
Terran (11): Maru, INnoVation, Bomber, Supernova, Gumiho, Flash, Bbyong, Dream, Reality, Keen, jjakji
Protoss (12): Rain, First, PartinG, sOs, JangBi, YongHwa, Super, Hero, Pigbaby, Trap, Dear, Swagger Terran and Protoss look very solid, but to me Zerg lacks in powerhouses. Besides SK and Symbol, there´s no one I would rate as a Code S mainstay. I think DongRaeGu counts as a Code S mainstay considering he's been in 9 Code S seasons in a row. Actually, shouldn't he be getting the NesTea award since he only spent a season in Code A during this OSL but managed to make his way back into Code S for this upcoming season (GSL)?
Yes, he will, and I´m aware of how weird it is not to consider him. It´s just that hasn´t looked like ro8 material for quite a while. But I hope he goes on a tear.
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On August 15 2013 22:01 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:57 thegnome wrote:
the code S players for next season will be:
Zerg (9): Soulkey, Symbol, Sleep, hyvaa, TRUE, SongDuri, soO, DongRaeGu, KangHo
Terran (11): Maru, INnoVation, Bomber, Supernova, Gumiho, Flash, Bbyong, Dream, Reality, Keen, jjakji
Protoss (12): Rain, First, PartinG, sOs, JangBi, YongHwa, Super, Hero, Pigbaby, Trap, Dear, Swagger Terran and Protoss look very solid, but to me Zerg lacks in powerhouses. Besides SK and Symbol, there´s no one I would rate as a Code S mainstay.
Kangho is a mainstay. hyvaa has a decenst shot as well at staying in code S and maybe soo.
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On August 15 2013 22:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Did you also feel it was "dishonest" for Mvp to all-in Protosses during 2012 Season 2?
Not at all, and I don't see how the two situations are related.
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On August 15 2013 22:15 monkybone wrote:
what happened to sniper anyway
Lost to Balloon in the prelims last season. Doesn't do much else outside of ATC.
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EPT
