Hmm I was a bit scared for LucifroN as he went into this, since he's lost to a few Protosses very recently.
However it's good to see that his TvP is still strong enough to win solid macro games against a guy that allegedly is leagues above everyone else in WCS AM . Go LucifroN~~ ^^
On July 11 2013 23:53 PviLLe3 wrote: anyone know if scarlett is also playing today? with 2 matches already played and 5 scheduled today thats only 7/8 series, odd no?
Or maybe it's a schedule conflict of some sort that doesn't allow Scarlett / Jim to play today, and so we have 5 series instead of 6. Don't quote me on it, but it's a reasonable possibility.
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
I'm pretty sure the better player is supposed to win... That you think otherwise makes me question what you understand by "balance"
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
He committed too much to the followup lings. If he just droned instead of killing 6 scvs for 20 lings + he would be way ahead.
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
Zerg can remake 15 workers at a time, Protoss can chrono their workers. If you remove mules you gotta remove chrono / change larva management. I'm fine with that
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
Yeah yeah, terran can mule, zerg can make 20 drones at a time. Races are different from each other.
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
It shouldn't be possible that inferior Zergs regularly manage to put superior Terrans in such a position.
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
On July 12 2013 00:08 SChlafmann wrote: Whatever mistakes Bly made, this should NOT be possible to come back from such a position. Terran is so imba is this very kind of scenario.
It shouldn't be possible that inferior Zergs regularly manage to put superior Terrans in such a position.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
now, if he pulled all drones with that attack, he would have won. how does that feel?
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So you want a game with a low skill ceiling where inferior players have plenty of opportunity to defeat far superior ones?
Again, I question your understanding of game balance and game design...
It would be nice if you stopped embarrassing yourself like this.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
Then thank god the game is not anywhere near how you want it to be, because then it would be terrible
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
Good thing you didn't recommend DoTA.. i just watched Na'Vi come back vs VP so hard it was sad. VP forfeited after that loss.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different Edit: yeah Wintex, that game was pretty sad for VP
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
Was it worse than broodlord infestor?
I mean...it was balanced I guess. But at least bl infestor doesn't go for 70 minutes usually. Bl infestor made me rage, but that just made me bored as hell.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
Was it worse than broodlord infestor?
I mean...it was balanced I guess. But at least bl infestor doesn't go for 70 minutes usually.
I guess you've never seen a Dimaga game in 2012, especially vs HerO on Dual sight
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
Was it worse than broodlord infestor?
I mean...it was balanced I guess. But at least bl infestor doesn't go for 70 minutes usually.
I guess you've never seen a Dimaga game in 2012, especially vs HerO on Dual sight
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
Was it worse than broodlord infestor?
I mean...it was balanced I guess. But at least bl infestor doesn't go for 70 minutes usually.
I guess you've never seen a Dimaga game in 2012, especially vs HerO on Dual sight
Notice how i said usually, they did that like 6 games in a row. It's the kind of thing where you're like, I hope the EU teams lose so this can be interesting.
On July 12 2013 00:12 AgentW wrote: [quote] So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
I don't know. I watched LoL once and they just turtled for 70 min and did one teamfight. Totally different
I remember a game like that with an EU team and a KR team or something. My friends were orgasming over turtling so much that ward kills made them lose their panties. Then I thought about games on Metropolis and sighed. They will never understand BC viking raven planetary vs anything.
Only LoL i watched was EU vs KR. Two different series same looking games and I hated the EU teams immediately.
Was it worse than broodlord infestor?
I mean...it was balanced I guess. But at least bl infestor doesn't go for 70 minutes usually.
I guess you've never seen a Dimaga game in 2012, especially vs HerO on Dual sight
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
Both very bad examples :p
How are killstreaks "very bad examples" in a shooter where the weapons are extremely easy to use and have little depth to begin with? Start chaining a few kills and getting more becomes easier and easier... ~_~
As for LoL, I think other posters have already made a case.
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
Both very bad examples :p
How are killstreaks "very bad examples" in a shooter where the weapons are extremely easy to use and have little depth to begin with? Start chaining a few kills and getting more becomes easier and easier... ~_~
As for LoL, I think other posters have already made a case.
Actually I said quite the opposite. From what I watched, if a team starts losing they can turtle forever and win with one fight. No I don't think that's good, but you're arguing for the opposite in snowballing. Which side are you even on
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
Both very bad examples :p
How are killstreaks "very bad examples" in a shooter where the weapons are extremely easy to use and have little depth to begin with? Start chaining a few kills and getting more becomes easier and easier... ~_~
As for LoL, I think other posters have already made a case.
Actually I said quite the opposite. From what I watched, if a team starts losing they can turtle forever and win with one fight.
And you think that's good game design? (plus I've read tons comments that say the exact opposite to what you're saying, and what I've seen indicated that as well, but hey anecdotal evidence and all that)
On July 12 2013 00:11 SChlafmann wrote: When you are down 3 peon to 30, you should lose to a peon attack, even if GM vs bronze. I don't like the fact that this is possible.
So we're playing WC3 now?
Yep, I know I have some issue with game disign xD
Edit : this is not about understanding, but about what I would like it to be
If you're looking for a game where advantages will always snowball into a win regardless of who the better player is, might I recommend Call of Duty or perhaps League of Legends?
Both very bad examples :p
How are killstreaks "very bad examples" in a shooter where the weapons are extremely easy to use and have little depth to begin with? Start chaining a few kills and getting more becomes easier and easier... ~_~
As for LoL, I think other posters have already made a case.
Actually I said quite the opposite. From what I watched, if a team starts losing they can turtle forever and win with one fight.
And you think that's good game design? (plus I've read tons comments that say the exact opposite to what you're saying, and what I've seen indicated that as well, but hey anecdotal evidence and all that)
Comebacks are fine to me. But only if the leading person or team does something stupid or if the one behind plays well with multitasking or getting a better comp. Sitting in your base for an hour until you have enough resources that you only need one even fight to win is pretty stupid, but I know that happens in many RTS games, this one included.
My only point is that I can't be bothered to watch that shit.
Poor Ret. I imagine him drinking the Coke and then going "Oh shit!" and spills his bottle all over the place in a rush to get his hands on his keyboard and mouse.
I'm not very aware of the current status of mech in TvZ but I mostly remember Mvp going mech in WCS EU Season 1. So is mech TvZ mainstream or still nothing compared to BioMine?
On July 12 2013 01:56 ValM wrote: I'm not very aware of the current status of mech in TvZ but I mostly remember Mvp going mech in WCS EU Season 1. So is mech TvZ mainstream or still nothing compared to BioMine?
On July 12 2013 01:56 ValM wrote: I'm not very aware of the current status of mech in TvZ but I mostly remember Mvp going mech in WCS EU Season 1. So is mech TvZ mainstream or still nothing compared to BioMine?
Very rarely played as it's even harder to play and extremely unforgiving, plus not many maps allow an easy fourth.
On July 12 2013 01:56 ValM wrote: I'm not very aware of the current status of mech in TvZ but I mostly remember Mvp going mech in WCS EU Season 1. So is mech TvZ mainstream or still nothing compared to BioMine?
At least in Korea, you definitely see much more biomine than mech. Both definitely viable though, map depending of course.
Realistically speaking, does MMA stand a chance against Life? Can see him snatching maybe a game with 11/11 or 2 base timing, but as for winning the series...
On July 12 2013 02:05 sudete wrote: Realistically speaking, does MMA stand a chance against Life? Can see him snatching maybe a game with 11/11 or 2 base timing, but as for winning the series...
Question is, which Life will show up? Same for MMA actually, a wild 2011 MMA can sometimes appear.
On July 12 2013 02:05 sudete wrote: Realistically speaking, does MMA stand a chance against Life? Can see him snatching maybe a game with 11/11 or 2 base timing, but as for winning the series...
Life hasn't really been performing well lately (losing to sjow and TLO at DH, going 0 - 2 in OSL), but so hasn't MMA. Still think Life should have this.
On July 12 2013 02:55 Zheryn wrote: Oh look, 1-2 tanks completely shut down the roach bane all ins. I wish more terrans would do this (looking at you, Innovation).
The thing is that strelok is going mech anyway. If you play bio and make 2 tanks for nothing, your push gets delayed by way too long and you just lose.
terran won all matches. I expect it to continue like this in the current balance situation. Of course now all terrans come and defend their race with their lives!
On July 12 2013 02:55 Zheryn wrote: Oh look, 1-2 tanks completely shut down the roach bane all ins. I wish more terrans would do this (looking at you, Innovation).
The thing is that strelok is going mech anyway. If you play bio and make 2 tanks for nothing, your push gets delayed by way too long and you just lose.
Lucifron did macro build with 1 early tank in all his TvZs last night in WCS and said it was really safe and you don't really end up behind even if zerg doesn't all in in the interview after the games.
On July 12 2013 02:55 Zheryn wrote: Oh look, 1-2 tanks completely shut down the roach bane all ins. I wish more terrans would do this (looking at you, Innovation).
The thing is that strelok is going mech anyway. If you play bio and make 2 tanks for nothing, your push gets delayed by way too long and you just lose.
Lucifron did macro build with 1 early tank in all his TvZs last night in WCS and said it was really safe and you don't really end up behind even if zerg doesn't all in in the interview after the games.
Except your Hellions are delayed for like 75 seconds—or you don't get Hellions at all—and stim is delayed too. There is always a price for early Tanks, and they're not even guaranteed to stop a committed Roach/Baneling bust efficiently (e. g. MMA vs ViBe, Daybreak, Acer vs ROOT: MMA gets a Tank and still loses 27 SCVs), and even if you do stop it dead, you aren't necessarily ahead afterwards because you have zero way to apply counter-pressure, so Zerg simply resumes droning and his failed attack is forgiven (WoL example, but watch for instance Happy vs Goswser, Icarus, RSL IV). People who think "but just get 1-2 Tanks each game to be safe!" completely miss the bigger picture.
EPT
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Khaldor![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/f/fb/Ru.png)
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Gisado![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/pl.png)
EmSc Tv![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png)
HerO vs. 
LucifroN
Bly![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
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