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[OSL] RO16 Day 2 WCS Korea Season 2 2013 - Page 87

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 85 86 87 88 Next
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
July 04 2013 19:17 GMT
#1721
On July 05 2013 03:15 Rhaegal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 02:56 Lock0n wrote:
On July 05 2013 00:15 udgnim wrote:
On July 04 2013 23:39 jedi1982 wrote:
I don't get why all these noobs are calling for hellbat nerfs and saying TvT is boring. I think it's freaking awesome as it takes more skill to deflect the hellbat mix IMO and also creates an intense matchup


risk / reward

it takes more skill to deflect hellbat drops than it does to perform a hellbat drop

meaning doing hellbat drops is weighted too heavily on the reward side and there isn't enough risk involved to balance the reward potential


Well it takes even more skill to counter with a hellbat drop whilst deflecting opponent's hellbat drop. Which is why the skill cap is extremely high with hellbat drops. It's no coincidence that innovation, who has the best multitask and mechanics of anyone, is also the hellbatman.



Yep.

Select, faster than every foreigner, says he likes the new TvT because of the required multitask.


There is no problem that hellbats require multitasks. The problem is when hellbat dropping skill alone determine the game, so other equally important skills never come to play. Select also said that he liked using hellbats, but not defending against them.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
July 04 2013 19:38 GMT
#1722
On July 05 2013 04:03 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 03:48 snakeeyez wrote:
Remind me not to care about another tvt ever. Innovation flash was about as uneventful and boring a match as you could hope for. It looks like just complete luck on where someone decides to drop hellbats and defender put his turrets,vikings, hellbats just kind of boring.


To restore your heart, go watch Ryung vs Puma from MLG somethign

or Ryung vs SC

or MMA vs SC

^both from GSTL this season

Personally, Ryung vs Puma is like the greatest of all time

MMA vs Gumiho
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 04 2013 19:44 GMT
#1723
On July 05 2013 00:51 LighT. wrote:
Based on Flash's luck in the Up and Downs
It's probably going to be
Innovation 2-1
Bomber 2-1
Flash 2-1
BByong 0-3 with Flash losing out on mapscore

But if Flash loses against Bomber/BByong he doesnt deserve to be in Ro8.
Thats the first time since MLG Finals where Flash looked noticeably rattled.

mapscore is not a tiebreaker, they would replay stuff
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
July 04 2013 20:33 GMT
#1724
Really glad that Rain won today. He is still far and beyond the best Protoss - I really hope he'll be able to win this OSL.
Not too sad that Parting lost, his PvZ has always been, let's say, one dimenional and he also has a bad streak ever since leaving ST imo. My hopes rest on Rain and First this season
Get off my lawn, young punks
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
July 04 2013 21:03 GMT
#1725
On July 05 2013 04:17 painkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 03:15 Rhaegal wrote:
On July 05 2013 02:56 Lock0n wrote:
On July 05 2013 00:15 udgnim wrote:
On July 04 2013 23:39 jedi1982 wrote:
I don't get why all these noobs are calling for hellbat nerfs and saying TvT is boring. I think it's freaking awesome as it takes more skill to deflect the hellbat mix IMO and also creates an intense matchup


risk / reward

it takes more skill to deflect hellbat drops than it does to perform a hellbat drop

meaning doing hellbat drops is weighted too heavily on the reward side and there isn't enough risk involved to balance the reward potential


Well it takes even more skill to counter with a hellbat drop whilst deflecting opponent's hellbat drop. Which is why the skill cap is extremely high with hellbat drops. It's no coincidence that innovation, who has the best multitask and mechanics of anyone, is also the hellbatman.



Yep.

Select, faster than every foreigner, says he likes the new TvT because of the required multitask.


There is no problem that hellbats require multitasks. The problem is when hellbat dropping skill alone determine the game, so other equally important skills never come to play. Select also said that he liked using hellbats, but not defending against them.

true dat. and its also a problem when a viking, 4 hellbats and 2 hellions are unable to properly defend against 1 medivac with 2 hellbats in them.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
July 04 2013 21:33 GMT
#1726
On July 05 2013 00:34 Rhaegal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 00:32 udgnim wrote:
On July 05 2013 00:17 Rhaegal wrote:
On July 05 2013 00:15 udgnim wrote:
On July 04 2013 23:39 jedi1982 wrote:
I don't get why all these noobs are calling for hellbat nerfs and saying TvT is boring. I think it's freaking awesome as it takes more skill to deflect the hellbat mix IMO and also creates an intense matchup


risk / reward

it takes more skill to deflect hellbat drops than it does to perform a hellbat drop

meaning doing hellbat drops is weighted too heavily on the reward side and there isn't enough risk involved to balance the reward potential



same exact thing with zealot warp ins. a move and the opponent micros his ass off while you do something else. even the new muta is a lot harder to defend against then to use.

If harassment was harder to execute than defending it than there would be no point of doing it.


zealot warp ins typically occur when an opponent has 3-4+ bases and both sides have 200 supply to work with. zealot warp ins punish an opponent that is too spread out and has neglected stationary defenses

hellbat drops typically occur in the early to early-mid game which have an impact on where the game goes into the mid & late game for an opponent

early game zealot warp in potential is harassment assuming the opponent isn't brain dead and can run workers away from melee ranged zealots

early game hellbat drop potential can be catastrophic due to hellbat AoE and medivac mobility



how is that different from Hellbats? It's funny that when watching players with good TvT, they make turrets, bunker, and have good enough reaction to take minimal damage from Hellbats.

Because one mistake and three seconds of not paying attention to two Hellbats loses you 20-30 workers. One mistake and not paying attention to equal supply Zealots loses maybe 10ish?
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5600 Posts
July 04 2013 22:21 GMT
#1727
Ok nerf hellbats. They ruined the Flash vs Innovation series and the Trap series...its looks stupid that terran can just drop over and over again while doing minimal dmg and then it just works once and the protoss loses. unfair.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
July 04 2013 22:45 GMT
#1728
On July 05 2013 00:51 LighT. wrote:
Based on Flash's luck in the Up and Downs
It's probably going to be
Innovation 2-1
Bomber 2-1
Flash 2-1
BByong 0-3 with Flash losing out on mapscore

But if Flash loses against Bomber/BByong he doesnt deserve to be in Ro8.
Thats the first time since MLG Finals where Flash looked noticeably rattled.


Haha, in your example Bomber would beat Innovation, but Flash isn't allowed to lose to Bomber because then he doesn't deserve to be Ro8? You're harsh :D

Either way, I'm not worrying too much, at the start it was said their main competition would be each other and today was always going to have a loser. And this way it's impossible for them to meet until the finals, so I'm not complaining (:
Cute
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17737 Posts
July 04 2013 22:54 GMT
#1729
On July 05 2013 04:44 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 00:51 LighT. wrote:
Based on Flash's luck in the Up and Downs
It's probably going to be
Innovation 2-1
Bomber 2-1
Flash 2-1
BByong 0-3 with Flash losing out on mapscore

But if Flash loses against Bomber/BByong he doesnt deserve to be in Ro8.
Thats the first time since MLG Finals where Flash looked noticeably rattled.

mapscore is not a tiebreaker, they would replay stuff

woa what? I've never heard of that before
"Expert" mods4ever.com
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 04 2013 22:57 GMT
#1730
This still makes me sad.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
July 04 2013 23:04 GMT
#1731
Good games but underwhelming considering the big names. Really happy to see Maru go through.
Try another route paperboy.
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
July 04 2013 23:33 GMT
#1732
Games was meh. idk why.. maybe the format :3
AKMU / IU
Rhaegal
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States678 Posts
July 04 2013 23:35 GMT
#1733
On July 05 2013 06:03 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 04:17 painkilla wrote:
On July 05 2013 03:15 Rhaegal wrote:
On July 05 2013 02:56 Lock0n wrote:
On July 05 2013 00:15 udgnim wrote:
On July 04 2013 23:39 jedi1982 wrote:
I don't get why all these noobs are calling for hellbat nerfs and saying TvT is boring. I think it's freaking awesome as it takes more skill to deflect the hellbat mix IMO and also creates an intense matchup


risk / reward

it takes more skill to deflect hellbat drops than it does to perform a hellbat drop

meaning doing hellbat drops is weighted too heavily on the reward side and there isn't enough risk involved to balance the reward potential


Well it takes even more skill to counter with a hellbat drop whilst deflecting opponent's hellbat drop. Which is why the skill cap is extremely high with hellbat drops. It's no coincidence that innovation, who has the best multitask and mechanics of anyone, is also the hellbatman.



Yep.

Select, faster than every foreigner, says he likes the new TvT because of the required multitask.


There is no problem that hellbats require multitasks. The problem is when hellbat dropping skill alone determine the game, so other equally important skills never come to play. Select also said that he liked using hellbats, but not defending against them.

true dat. and its also a problem when a viking, 4 hellbats and 2 hellions are unable to properly defend against 1 medivac with 2 hellbats in them.



nice hyperbole. Just because Tasteless screams, "oh my god so much damage" when a player kills 5 scvs for 2 hellbats and a medivac doesn't mean it was worth it.
http://www.twitch.tv/agonysc
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5524 Posts
July 04 2013 23:57 GMT
#1734
It definitely seems that the more hyped matches are, the shittier they get, Jesus. And yeah, I'm referring to Flash V. Innovation.
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-05 04:56:53
July 05 2013 04:56 GMT
#1735
That second game of flash verse innovation just felt wrong. Seeing flash down 30 scvs from like 2 drops cost him the game I mean how much skill was there in flash not being able to stop that? Seemed pretty stupid does that really mean innovation is the more skilled player?
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
July 05 2013 05:02 GMT
#1736
On July 05 2013 13:56 snakeeyez wrote:
That second game of flash verse innovation just felt wrong. Seeing flash down 30 scvs from like 2 drops cost him the game I mean how much skill was there in flash not being able to stop that? Seemed pretty stupid does that really mean innovation is the more skilled player?


The better player won that game, certainly. They both had the same tools available to them, Flash knew what he was in for given the prevalence of Hellbats in TvT.
fuzzylogic44
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2633 Posts
July 05 2013 05:07 GMT
#1737
On July 05 2013 07:54 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 04:44 opterown wrote:
On July 05 2013 00:51 LighT. wrote:
Based on Flash's luck in the Up and Downs
It's probably going to be
Innovation 2-1
Bomber 2-1
Flash 2-1
BByong 0-3 with Flash losing out on mapscore

But if Flash loses against Bomber/BByong he doesnt deserve to be in Ro8.
Thats the first time since MLG Finals where Flash looked noticeably rattled.

mapscore is not a tiebreaker, they would replay stuff

woa what? I've never heard of that before


On July 04 2013 21:26 Chobra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2013 21:16 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Does anyone know if they are using map score as tiebreakers? I heard initial reports they are not. But it's not on the liquipedia page anymore.


tiebreakers will be determined by bo.1 matches on the last day of the ro.16 broadcast, after all matches.


DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
July 05 2013 05:14 GMT
#1738
On July 05 2013 14:02 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 13:56 snakeeyez wrote:
That second game of flash verse innovation just felt wrong. Seeing flash down 30 scvs from like 2 drops cost him the game I mean how much skill was there in flash not being able to stop that? Seemed pretty stupid does that really mean innovation is the more skilled player?


The better player won that game, certainly. They both had the same tools available to them, Flash knew what he was in for given the prevalence of Hellbats in TvT.

I dunno, man.

Surely, it was right to play the flat out broken hellbat drops on map with shortest by-air travel distance, but it's like saying that "hey, he survived til BL/Infestor, he's better player" in 2012.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-05 05:25:30
July 05 2013 05:25 GMT
#1739
On July 05 2013 14:14 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 14:02 HolyArrow wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:56 snakeeyez wrote:
That second game of flash verse innovation just felt wrong. Seeing flash down 30 scvs from like 2 drops cost him the game I mean how much skill was there in flash not being able to stop that? Seemed pretty stupid does that really mean innovation is the more skilled player?


The better player won that game, certainly. They both had the same tools available to them, Flash knew what he was in for given the prevalence of Hellbats in TvT.

I dunno, man.

Surely, it was right to play the flat out broken hellbat drops on map with shortest by-air travel distance, but it's like saying that "hey, he survived til BL/Infestor, he's better player" in 2012.


That analogy doesn't really work. BL/Infestor was considered imba because non-Z's had tons of trouble dealing with it. In this case, it's a mirror matchup.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
July 05 2013 05:25 GMT
#1740
On July 05 2013 14:14 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 14:02 HolyArrow wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:56 snakeeyez wrote:
That second game of flash verse innovation just felt wrong. Seeing flash down 30 scvs from like 2 drops cost him the game I mean how much skill was there in flash not being able to stop that? Seemed pretty stupid does that really mean innovation is the more skilled player?


The better player won that game, certainly. They both had the same tools available to them, Flash knew what he was in for given the prevalence of Hellbats in TvT.

I dunno, man.

Surely, it was right to play the flat out broken hellbat drops on map with shortest by-air travel distance, but it's like saying that "hey, he survived til BL/Infestor, he's better player" in 2012.


It's nothing like that, this is a mirror matchup, not Terran or Protoss struggling to win in the late game vs Zerg.
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